Cash games - how do you cash out? (1 Viewer)

[Imaduck]

What's the etiquette when someone wants to leave? Do they establish their departure time with the host when they arrive? An hour before?

Personally, I think this is dumb. People should be able to leave whenever they want; it's a cash game. If you were playing at a card house or casino, you could get up and leave whenever you want.

I understand people get upset about "hit and runs," but they really shouldn't. Why does the amount of time someone sticks around after winning matter? If I stuck around all night and won money off of you, it's the same result as me sticking around for 5 minutes? I get that people want to feel like they have a "chance to win their money back," but that's on those players, and it's erroneous thinking. If you're a good player, this shouldn't bother you. There's always more poker to be played, and you can just win it back next week.

The only case I could see this being a problem is if you have an issue with lots of players leaving and causing the game to break early. I agree that this would suck, but you can always just invite more players, and go to two tables if you end up with too many (assuming you have space), and consolidate back to one table when people leave.

If you just don't have the space, then yeah, I'd suggest calling the folks that you know will stick around first, and only calling the one buy-in, hit and runners if you need to.

I say this all as a player who will never hit and run, because I know how sensitive people are to it. I'm pretty religious about making sure I won't just leave on a win, unless I've made it abundantly clear that I have a specific time I need to leave. However, this has made me stay way later at games than I wanted to on several occasions, and I don't really think that's fair.

Also, hit and runners are almost universally bad players. I'm fine with you hit and running if you're donating to the game pretty much every other time you sit down.

Is it necessary to rebuy when busting out once?

Absolutely not!

The reason I bring these questions up is because last night I played at a home game and these situations arose. Two players bought in, did decent/good for an hour, cashed out and just picked up and left without saying anything. Host was visibly upset with them.

I don't think it's a good policy to force players to play when they don't want to for any reason.

Another player bought in for $40 (.50/1 stakes) ran it up to $350, proceeded to bleed chips and went busto. He was getting up to leave when the host said that everyone has to rebuy at least once. The player said he did not know that was a rule.

Yeah, that's insane to me. How would you enforce that? Are you gonna hold people hostage? This dude just lost 350 big blinds. It doesn't matter if that was from 1 buy in or 5, losing that much still stings, and if you think it's going to affect your play, you should be able to leave.

 

[detroitdad]

Personally, I think this is dumb. People should be able to leave whenever they want; it's a cash game. If you were playing at a card house or casino, you could get up and leave whenever you want.

People can leave whenever they want. They can even hit and run if they like. I just won't invite them back.

Just because you "can" leave whenever you want doesn't mean that you should. A casino and a home game are two completely different things. There is this thing called "being polite". If you know your only going to play for two hours as a host I would like to know that. If its 11 pm and you know your leaving in 20- 40 minutes be polite and announce it.

Do you have too. Nope............but you should.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think the mandatory stick around rules are pretty much crap, but I haven't played in Rhodeman's old group either. The fact that they made it a rule indicates that they may have had a problem with hit-and-runs, and needed to fix the problem.

But life matters. Sometimes you gotta cut out earlier than a full night. It's not worth forcing a player to stick around, but if that player is habitual, they're going to get fewer invites.

 

[detroitdad]

I think the mandatory stick around rules are pretty much crap, but I haven't played in Rhodeman's old group either. The fact that they made it a rule indicates that they may have had a problem with hit-and-runs, and needed to fix the problem.

But life matters. Sometimes you gotta cut out earlier than a full night. It's not worth forcing a player to stick around, but if that player is habitual, they're going to get fewer invites.

If you aren't an established player at my house and you hit and run, it'll be a one shot deal. You won't be invited back. Circumstances could change that (leaving for an emergency). You show up for 20 minutes, triple up and leave. Screw you..........

 

[detroitdad]

I think the mandatory stick around rules are pretty much crap

Yep........

I have a guy that plays less than once a year. When he does, he always tells me he is leaving early (and he does). He gets an invite every single time I host.

 

[Coyote]

Customary law here is quite different. Anybody hosting a home game, upon inviting, announces a given time, something like minimum game duration, before which no winning player can leave unless a real life emergency occurs.
I was surprised to find out that this is a rule even in professional venues other than casinos (ie card rooms): You are required to play for at least one hour and a half unless you 're loosing.

 

[Taghkanic]

If you were playing at a card house or casino, you could get up and leave whenever you want.

True.

But... anyone can show up at a casino. As long as you don’t punch your dealer in the face or get caught sneaking chips into a big hand, you can come and go anytime you want. You are playing (mostly) with strangers. It’s a public place.

By definition, not everyone can show up to a private game. At the private games where I play (and the one I host), regulars know each other really well, and everyone is either regular or sponsored by one. If I’m new, an invitation back is not guaranteed, obv. So it seems more important to be careful about this stuff if it’s a game I want to return to.

I suppose it might be a “thing” in other people’s games that no one cares about hit-and-runs. In my experience this is a pretty universal no-no. To me, that doesn’t mean you have to stay much later than you want, just that it’s worth being mindful of how to exit gracefully.

IMHO, exiting gracefully does not mean playing ultra-nitty to protect your win, hanging around for an extra half hour, just for appearances' sake. It means letting people know in advance what your schedule is. Ideally, well before you quadruple up.

If people know that you always leave at midnight, then you happen to win a big hand at 11:59, who can blame you if you stick to your schedule? You aren’t taking advantage—your timing is incidental. Some other session you’ll go bust on your last hand, and things will even out for the game in the end.

If I usually stay to the bitter end, but I have to be up at 5:30 to drive a friend to the airport, then I’ll tell people in advance—“Hey, gotta get up real early, so I’ll be out of here at 11:30 whether I’m up or down.”

 

[JustinInMN]

I think it's completely reasonable for there to be different etiquette between casino games and home games. It's much easier to start games in casinos, they're always open. Home games only exist for a short period of time and involve a lot of players committing to the game.

It's tough to have players expecting a 7-8 handed game and then find out 3 of the players are only going to commit to an hour or so. Other players are committing to several hours and possibly long drives. At my age, getting out to play often means getting spousal passes or babysitters and if players flake out early and the game breaks after a short time, it's hard on everyone.

If you flake out of a casino game, they usually have a waiting list.

Now I don't think I'm as hard on early leavers as others in this thread, I would only withhold invitations after more than one occurrence without an emergency reason.

But the (I'm sure hypothetical ) guy that @detroitdad describes is bad for the game. This is the kind of player that doesn't understand to "get action you have to give action." Hit and run players are only interested in the first part and put that interest ahead of the health of having regular games.

If someone goes broke, I'm never going to demand a rebuy, if someone leaves abruptly after a couple hours I don't mind.

If I'm not hosting, I like to at the very least give the "last orbit for me" announcement (or after doing this three times add "this time I really have to go") and if others are ready to quit too then we can determine a fair time for the last hand together. Usually I'll give a 20-30 minute warning.

But I would caution against banning unless it's a repeat offense thing, some people are just ignorant of the effort hosts put into home games and if that can be fixed, it's worth trying that before giving up on a player.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

As others have said, it's not about having a chance to win back your money or other such nonsense. It's about being respectful to the host and other players.

Some home games struggle to fill seats. Others have limited room and have to turn away players. Both of these types of games are hurt by hit-and-runners; the first breaks earlier and the second leaves an empty seat that could have been filled by another player.

I don't have a mandate about how long you have to stay or when you can leave, but save the hit and run crap for the casino. If you do it in my games, you're probably not getting invited back.

 

[BGinGA]

Clearly, there is a different standard for private home games vs casino/card room play.

However, I'm curious as to where the cash tables at meetups fall in that categorical discussion in people's opinions.

Lots of extra reasons to leave a given game table at a meetup -- switching to play different stakes, play different games, play with different people, or just to socialize for a bit and not play at all. Somewhat unique, as few of those really apply to casino or home game play.

 

[Mr Tree]

Clearly, there is a different standard for private home games vs casino/card room play.

However, I'm curious as to where the cash tables at meetups fall in that categorical discussion in people's opinions.

Lots of extra reasons to leave a given game table at a meetup -- switching to play different stakes, play different games, play with different people, or just to socialize for a bit and not play at all. Somewhat unique, as few of those really apply to casino or home game play.

My gut is it depends on what is happening at the meetup. If you have multiple tables buzzing and you’re moving doesn’t affect anything then it is no big deal. If, for instance, the meetup is having a hard time keeping a game going and you leaving means there will be a few people holding their hats and unable to play what they want then I frown a bit at it. In general though I feel like players are free to leave whenever they want ultimately.

 

[detroitdad]

Clearly, there is a different standard for private home games vs casino/card room play.

However, I'm curious as to where the cash tables at meetups fall in that categorical discussion in people's opinions.

Lots of extra reasons to leave a given game table at a meetup -- switching to play different stakes, play different games, play with different people, or just to socialize for a bit and not play at all. Somewhat unique, as few of those really apply to casino or home game play.

I usually move tables when I lose all my money at said table.

 

[Taghkanic]

Are meetups more about profit, or socializing? Assuming the latter, sounds like switching tables/spending less time at each table is to be expected.

 

[detroitdad]

Are meetups more about profit, or socializing? Assuming the latter, sounds like switching tables/spending less time at each table is to be expected.

I've been to my fair share of meet ups. I haven't seen a problem with people routinely moving tables. Like Tree said, it doesn't usually kill the table, so no harm no foul.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Are meetups more about profit, or socializing? Assuming the latter, sounds like switching tables/spending less time at each table is to be expected.

Wait... a meet-up can be done for a profit?

After airfare & hotel/Air B&B or gas & hotel, or simple hosting costs... I don't know how many have ever left with a profit.

Good times yes. Profit - not at my skill level!

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Clearly, there is a different standard for private home games vs casino/card room play.

However, I'm curious as to where the cash tables at meetups fall in that categorical discussion in people's opinions.

Lots of extra reasons to leave a given game table at a meetup -- switching to play different stakes, play different games, play with different people, or just to socialize for a bit and not play at all. Somewhat unique, as few of those really apply to casino or home game play.

I'm at a meetup for three reasons: to socialize, to play games that I rarely/never get the opportunity to play elsewhere, and to throw up in my mouth a little when I realize that I'm playing a .25/.50 game and I'm 1500bb deep.

In my opinion (take that for what it's worth), if you follow home game etiquette at a meetup, you'll be fine. There are definitely unique aspects - mostly due to having multiple games going on, lots more socialization with people you don't see as often as your home game crew, etc. - but by and large a meetup is mostly a big (sometimes BIG) home game.

 

[CraigT78]

Clearly, there is a different standard for private home games vs casino/card room play.

However, I'm curious as to where the cash tables at meetups fall in that categorical discussion in people's opinions.

Lots of extra reasons to leave a given game table at a meetup -- switching to play different stakes, play different games, play with different people, or just to socialize for a bit and not play at all. Somewhat unique, as few of those really apply to casino or home game play.

At a meetup, I'm only leaving the table to either get another beer, or because I'm broke.

 

[CraigT78]

I don't care much if I have a full table is someone leaves early - but my experience hasn't been that someone hit's and runs. Usually someone leaving early is card dead and not enjoying themselves. The typical comment is "it's not my night" and they cash out and go home. As long as i have 5 or more players, so be it.

Now on the flip side, if I had a game of 6 and someone jets early because they won a huge pot? Yeah - fuck that guy.

 

[Imaduck]

Okay, I agree that it's totally fair to be upset about people leaving early if your game is typically one table, you're giving people special invites to show up at a specific time, and the game can break pretty easily if a couple people leave. I do think you should let people know about that up front though, especially if you're going to have some sort of "minimum rebuy" rule.

I'm more used to home games where we'll have 1-2 tables, people are showing up at all different times, and the game will grow and shrink throughout the night. At these types of games, I'd feel really uncomfortable telling my players how long they have to play, how many rebuys they have to have, or shaming them because they don't feel comfortable playing with a big stack.

I also play in casinos/card rooms, and I see people complain about hit and runs at those, and I've never understood that. But the situations you guys are describing are very different.

 

[Esection]

Yea Hit and Run really only becomes an issue if it is repeated practice from the same player or if the player leaving early breaks the game, or contributes to the chance the game breaks.

 

[Taghkanic]

I can’t see having a required rebuy at my game.

Better to set a minimum buyin at a level which pretty much guarantees the smallest amount you want in play.

If you typically have 8-9 players who buyin for $100-$200, and you want to make sure there is at least $1,000 in play, then set the minimum at $100 and assume that there will be at least a couple rebuys. Or make it $125 if people are only playing one buyin.

When we play cash here, there is usually about $1,200 in total buyins to start, and at least 5-6 rebuys over the course of the evening, so $2-$2.5K at least in the box over the evening.

If someone busts on their first buy, just isn’t feeling it, and wants to go, I’m never going to insist that they stay and rebuy. Of course if they always do this, and we have plenty of players, at some point they can’t expext a guaranteed seat. But that’s never happened.

If someone is constantly losing and doesn’t have the money to continue (i.e. has little chance of ever getting unstuck), they are more likely to drop out long before they get cut.