CatPants' WSOP PAHWM #2 - Event 13: $600 PLO Deep Stack (1 Viewer)

[MrCatPants]

Second hand for the series. First hand is here: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/catpants-wsop-pahwm-1-event-13-600-plo-deep-stack.106632/

Overall structure of Event #13: https://www.wsop.com/pdfs/structuresheets/structure_5219_21678.pdf

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Action on hero.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

nice connected and double suited hand in decent position, let’s make it 15k.

 

[grebe]

Whatever your standard open is, make it so.

 

[Rhodeman77]

nice connected and double suited hand in decent position, let’s make it 15k.

this ^^^.

Good enough hand to open from this position.

 

[Highli99]

I just checked the results and see you had a nice finish - congrats! Pretty sweet to run that deep in a big field.

I also noticed that Clayton Fletcher final tabled and had a nice score. His podcast is great so cool to see him run deep as well.

 

[MrCatPants]

Would nice to not have the big gap, or an ace high flush draw, but beggars can't be choosers - sorta in position hero decides this is a lower-end-of-the-range open.

Also made a correction to the hand above - the lower card was more dangly.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Action on hero.

 

[grebe]

Would nice to not have the big gap, or an ace high flush draw, but beggars can't be choosers - sorta in position hero decides this is a lower-end-of-the-range open.

Also made a correction to the hand above - the lower card was more dangly.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Action on hero.

OOP sucks, but whatever....this is a pretty decent outcome, although top two pair would be better...second nut flush draw, wishing it was nut....V could have a lot of good straight draws, a flush draw as well (better or worse? would this opponent call down with a worse flush draw?). I really don't know the correct play here, but in game I think I would go with a stop/go maybe for pot control. Check/call flop with plans to bet any turn card (except a non heart A) if it goes check/check.

I would check/call here hoping to get to a showdown relatively cheap. I am probably wrong though.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Heads up this is a pretty favorable flop. 2 pair. 2nd nut flush draw, backdoor flush draw, and blockers if your opponent has a straight draw. I'd continue here for 25k.

 

[MrCatPants]

I just checked the results and see you had a nice finish - congrats! Pretty sweet to run that deep in a big field.

I also noticed that Clayton Fletcher final tabled and had a nice score. His podcast is great so cool to see him run deep as well.

I got up to 1.3 M at my peak on day 2 and ran an AAT6 single suited handed (I 4-bet all in) into the second biggest stack in the tourney who had AKQ8. 70/30 favorite. Flop K88. Turn 8, just to fully bury hope.

 

[utgtrash]

i'm gonna pot this flop and go with it if i get raised. i know there are ppl that will note that you could be against top set! nut flush draw! huge wrap!!! but in this stack size, if you are gonna be opening with this hand, esp in a tourney where you can't always wait for nuts with nut redraws, i think you just have to go with it. i'd say if on the turn you get a straight or flush card on the turn you can check (rather than block bet) but you still might have to call down with your 2nd nut flush. (probably have to fold to a straight if the turn bet is big)

i might also make a case for not playing this hand at all, but i won't because i wasn't at the table and i'm sure OP had some pretty good sense of what ranges you ought to be playing given player types, player in the BB etc.

 

[Rhodeman77]

This is the type of flop Hero is usually ahead on but there could be a lot of bad turn cards for Hero. I think Hero should be betting, 25k or 30k. Depending on Hero’s read on Villain I could definitely fold if raised on the flop. While I like the hand I am not dropping anchor with it.

 

[JustinInMN]

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Action on hero.

This is a good not great flop for hero, but honestly, I probably wouldn't fall in love with too many flops without seeing :Ah: or KKx or QQx. We have two pair and unfortunately some draws that might be second best. There are really only 4 turn cards I am really going to love :Ah:, :Qc:, :Qd:, and :Qs:. I suppose I would like a club to fall on the turn too. I would almost rather hit the backdoor flush and bet it than catch the heart flush and be afraid of the nuts. The backdoor nuts won't be out often.

So given I don't think there are a lot of great turns, but two pair, 2nd nut flush draw, with bd flush and straight draws seems like we should have the advantage if we bet. But I think I am shutting down/playing cop if we don't improve the rest of the way.

 

[MrCatPants]

Good, not great flop for a good, not great hand, out of position. Always fun times.

We can't give free cards but also want to control the size of the pot - hand continues below.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Hero BETS 20k
BTN is thoughtful for a bit (visuals look more like between call vs. raise instead of call vs. fold) and CALLS

Pot is 85k

Turn brings

Action on hero.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I think betting out here masks your hand more than check raising, or check calling and leading out the river. I'd probably lead out on the smaller size, hoping he'll take it as a sign of weakness, and either raise or chase a draw. Make it 35k, if he calls the pot is 155k, and you have 150k behind, enough for a very polarizing shove on the river.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I got up to 1.3 M at my peak on day 2 and ran an AAT6 single suited handed (I 4-bet all in) into the second biggest stack in the tourney who had AKQ8. 70/30 favorite. Flop K88. Turn 8, just to fully bury hope.

I remember seeing that but DIDNT realize the background info. It takes a lot of skill and luck and turning points to get through a tournament that size, but man that's difficult to not win that hand because who knows where you end up if you do.

Still amazing run and great to see your spirits during it and some of these hands after the fact.

 

[JustinInMN]

Hero BETS 20k
BTN is thoughtful for a bit (visuals look more like between call vs. raise instead of call vs. fold) and CALLS

Pot is 85k

Turn brings

Action on hero.

Boy this is a tough choice, and maybe I am too much of a nit. We have the second nuts, yes, but we only have one card to the certain nuts.

So if as hero we bet, I am guessing villain pretty much as to have the case queen of he calls and probably 9 outs to a better full house, or he possibly has a Q8 and we hope our 6 outs are live. We could also hope villian has 88 and is calling down.

I feel like it's tough to get paid on two streets of value here by anything inferior except maybe 88 exactly and that's villian dependent.

I might check here and lead a safe river (k, q, 9, 5,4,3,2, maybe 6, and 7 too) if villain checked behind.

Or I might bet here and check river if called.

Plo is a game of making the nuts and we just have a lot of second place potential despite the strength of our hand.

 

[Rhodeman77]

While we love this turn card, I have been in this spot many many times and am now losing to Q8 that flopped top 2 pair. I often prefer to make the under boat with the 5 pairing as we are now beating Q8 in that case.

I don’t mind a check or a bet in this spot. As said already, hard to get 2 streets of value from a worse hand. So for the times we are ahead of a hand like 88 we look weaker check calling the turn and river and can get the 2 streets. If he checks the turn Hero is likely to get looked up on the river for a bigger bet.

Betting the turn is fine too. But if we get called it will be hard to get a value bet called on the river by a worse hand.

 

[MrCatPants]

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Hero BETS 20k
BTN is thoughtful for a bit (visuals look more like between call vs. raise instead of call vs. fold) and CALLS

Pot is 85k

Turn brings

Hero BETS 40k
BTN POTS for 205k (which puts Hero all in)

Action on hero.

 

[JustinInMN]

urn brings

Hero BETS 40k
BTN POTS for 205k (which puts Hero all in)

Action on hero.

Green face emoji indeed.

So it comes down to whether or not you believe villian do this with 88 and no Q blocker. (Or for that matter a Q with no 8.) If the answer is yes, the call is defensible, if the answer is no, I think you fold.

 

[aggie]

 

[Rhodeman77]

Such a tough spot that I think this really comes down to Hero’s read on the Villain. hero has been playing with him for several hours. Hopefully he has picked up some indication if he over plays trips or under full houses. If he has been on the tighter side though I think Hero can find a fold.

Like I said earlier I’m not dropping anchor with this hand. Can definitely fold it if we think we are behind.

Versus an action player I snap call. Versus a tighter player I fold.

And for those that say why would Q8xx not just call here and let Hero bet the river as well? Villain knows that Hero could have 9 outs potentially to beat him. Better to take the pot down now.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I think with the flat payout structure you have to call here. Even if villain does have Q8, we can still bink a K or a 9. I know Omaha is a nut game, but it's not like we have an underfill. This is one of those situations where if he has it, gg (and lets bink a 9 on the river).

 

[utgtrash]

Barf - honestly this is probably a fold but yeah it sucks. They really have to not know what they are doing to repot less than the nuts here. 88 is actually turning the underfull into a bluff.

 

[MrCatPants]

Hero tanks for a while and considers that there are probably more naked queens with outs and 88 hands (and stone cold bluffs) that would act this way than Q8 combos. And even if they have Q8, you just gotta make calls like this sometimes (and be right/suck out) to go deep in the tourney. If pay jumps were more notable, maybe i find a fold here. Especially on the bubble.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

SB: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M
BB: 850K
UTG: 90k
UTG +1 : 120k
HJ (Hero): 220k
CU: 175k
BTN: 400k

Folds to hero who looks down at

Hero RAISES to 15k.
BTN CALLS
SB Folds (sorry for the irrelevant teaser, but it will be relevant on another hand)
BB tank folds

Flop comes , giving us top and bottom pair, the king high flush draw, and some backdoor straight possibilities.

Pot is 45k.

Hero BETS 20k
BTN is thoughtful for a bit (visuals look more like between call vs. raise instead of call vs. fold) and CALLS

Pot is 85k

Turn brings

Hero BETS 40k
BTN POTS for 205k (which puts Hero all in)

Hero tank crying CALLS.

Villain flips over .
I flip my hand. Villain immediately starts berating me: "I knew you were weak! I knew you were trying to pull a move, I never should have let you get there. How do you all keep playing these trash hands?"
Guy to my left says "It's a pretty good hand."
Villian: "It's trash, you're all playing trash."

River comes a clean .

Villian literally doesn't shut up about this hand, "How do you even tank at all with that boat?"
Me: "Well, Q8 plays the same way, and if you had it I'd be down to 6 outs."

He goes from double average stack late in the event to full busto to someone else in about ten minutes.

 

[MrCatPants]

New one up: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/catpants-wsop-pahwm-3-event-13-600-plo-deep-stack.106719/

 

[JustinInMN]

Villain flips over .
I flip my hand. Villain immediately starts berating me: "I knew you were weak! I knew you were trying to pull a move, I never should have let you get there. How do you all keep playing these trash hands?"

Wow, objectively, villian's hand is worse than hero's in every respect.

Double suited 3 gappers, no pairs no aces?

Glad you found the call after all. The call is clearly right with the benefit of this reveal.

He was dead to 3 outs.

 

[grebe]

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 15 minutes ago and we are already down to about 500 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 250k
7 handed with an open seat right now after a recent bust.

Pot is 85k

Turn brings

Hero BETS 40k
BTN POTS for 205k (which puts Hero all in)

Action on hero.

I am not good enough to fold. Only 1 hand beats us, but it's a probable hand. I call hoping he is over valuing AQ or 88.

 

[grebe]

I flip my hand. Villain immediately starts berating me: "I knew you were weak! I knew you were trying to pull a move, I never should have let you get there. How do you all keep playing these trash hands?"

Way to crack his AA double suited!

Villain flips over

wait, what?

 

[MrCatPants]

Way to crack his AA double suited!


wait, what?

One of those guys who insists "you should have folded to that bet!" when the core issue is that the bet shouldn't have been made. He just calls I'm pretty much checking any river other than a king or 9..