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CatPants' WSOP PAHWM #4 (LAST ONE - ACT NOW!) - Event 13: $600 PLO Deep Stack (1 Viewer)

MrCatPants said:
Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s::

Pot is 345k.
Click to expand...

Boy this is tough, but it's starting to look like good starting hand, bad run-out. But it does seems that cutoff is very likely to be in the same situation. Yet calling flop seems to make me think he has some help somewhere.

So the decision is does hero save the 415K for another day, or is this a good spot to continue the bluff? I think it's pot or nothing here, villain will have to commit 33% of his stack to keep you honest.

I just can't get past the flop call. I am thinking there are hands like A543 with a suited :ah: are that are in villain's range here. Maybe A753 for the flopped double gutter. I'm not putting villain on an overpair given the pre and flop action. But I have to think he has at least an 8 out straight draw to call the flop, it's a question of how many of those hands happen to contain threes or include some :ah::h: holding.

It's hard to enumerate, but my instinct on the flop was to the take the shot, and if called, see if you get help. We really didn't get help, I think we save the 415K for another day. I'm going to check-planning to fold. If it checks behind, then maybe we get a check-call river.
 
JustinInMN said:
I think we save the 415K for another day. I'm going to check-planning to fold. If it checks behind, then maybe we get a check-call river.
Click to expand...

This is the conundrum here, isn't it? Against a regular field with deep stacks in a cash game, I really think this is a check/fold spot.

HOWEVER, against a mostly pros field where we are one of the "less experienced" and our starting stack is 44 bigs, I really think we HAVE to drop the hammer here. If not, there's no way we get out of this without facing a big bet when we check. This has shaped up to be who will pick up the hammer and use it first situation. If we pass, he gets it. I say we grab that hammer and put him to the test. If it's our time to die, we go out on our shield.
 
JustinInMN said:
I just can't get past the flop call. I am thinking there are hands like A543 with a suited :ah: are that are in villain's range here. Maybe A753 for the flopped double gutter. I'm not putting villain on an overpair given the pre and flop action. But I have to think he has at least an 8 out straight draw to call the flop, it's a question of how many of those hands happen to contain threes or include some :ah::h: holding.
Click to expand...
The more I think about it, the more I think Villain is going to check behind a lot if hero checks. I think villain probably has at least straight draw like I said and some of these holdings will have the nut flush draw as well. But the board pairing doesn't make a straight or flush obviously and now these draws have less appeal with full houses now possible. That said, even with a board pair present, this is not the type of board that causes many full houses between a preflop raising hand and a calling hand. But I am thinking villain doesn't want to play for stacks right now either without the goods and stands to lose 33% of his stack if he loses a confrontation with hero.

So I think I am still check-folding, but I am more confident that the only things villain will bet are hands we want to fold against (full houses, trip 3s with straight or flush draws.)
 
grebe said:
HOWEVER, against a mostly pros field where we are one of the "less experienced" and our starting stack is 44 bigs, I really think we HAVE to drop the hammer here. If not, there's no way we get out of this without facing a big bet when we check. This has shaped up to be who will pick up the hammer and use it first situation. If we pass, he gets it. I say we grab that hammer and put him to the test. If it's our time to die, we go out on our shield.
Click to expand...
Well put, do we wait for a better spot, or IS THIS THE SPOT?
 
JustinInMN said:
The more I think about it, the more I think Villain is going to check behind a lot if hero checks. I think villain probably has at least straight draw like I said and some of these holdings will have the nut flush draw as well. But the board pairing doesn't make a straight or flush obviously and now these draws have less appeal with full houses now possible. That said, even with a board pair present, this is not the type of board that causes many full houses between a preflop raising hand and a calling hand. But I am thinking villain doesn't want to play for stacks right now either without the goods and stands to lose 33% of his stack if he loses a confrontation with hero.

So I think I am still check-folding, but I am more confident that the only things villain will bet are hands we want to fold against (full houses, trip 3s with straight or flush draws.)
Click to expand...
This is the logic I settled on live. Almost nothing should be betting here either direction. I'm trapping my 99 monsters and check calling my strong overpairs. Accordingly, he can't bluff his draws as he's only going to get called by better hands and bloat a pot he may miss.
 
Context:
Level 20, first hand of day 2, down to 118 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are still not a concern.
No reads on anyone. I am second oldest at the table. One of only three americans. Hoodies, headphones, and sunglasses out in full force. I'm one of the last if not the last 'weekend/homegame warriors/ neighborhood poker dads' left in the event.

Blinds 10k/15k with a 15k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 850k

Posting Hendon mob profiles here just for fun. Table is....just a bit experienced. Average LTD poker earnings north of 500k I think. And then, me.

SB: 500k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=514702
BB 315k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=431938
UTG (Hero) : 655k
UTG + 1): 440k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=142244
MP: 2.6M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=598773
HJ: 1.25M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=108480
CO: 1.45M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=482908
BTN: 290k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=200572

No reads on anyone. My second time day two-ing a WSOP event in the 'production' room, so nerves aren't as bad as they were the previous year.

Shuffle up and deal, hero hopes for a few folds to get settled in - and instead looks at :kh: :qs::th::9s:.

Pot is 40k.

Hero raises to 40k.
MP calls
CO calls
All others fold.

Flop comes :9h::6c::3h:.

Hero BETS 100k.
MP FOLDS
CO CALLS

Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s:

Hero CHECKS.
CO thinks and CHECKS.

River is an improvement card: :9h::6c::3h::3s::4h:

Pot is 345k.

Action on hero.
 
I think it's check call here. He could have been calling your flop bet with the nut flush draw, but he also could have been calling with a wrap and smaller flush draw. Its tough for me to think he has a boat here, unless he was slowplaying 66, which seems unlikely.
 
I think the river means we want to get to showdown, and we are accepting we are possibly going broke if villain has the nut flush and bets it. So the question is do we want to bet it ourselves, or do we benefit by checking it and maximizing villain's opportunity to act on his bluffing hands.

joker80 said:
Check call. Only going to get called or raised with better and could bluff catch the naked A❤️
Click to expand...
I agree, so I lean check as well, but I think this point also applies if hero decides to bet as well. I think if hero chooses to bet, there is no hero laydown if we get raised exactly due to the possibility of villain making this play.

But weighing the sides, I think there is more value in inspiring a villain bluff than leading ourselves and hoping for a villain crying-call. That said, I will acknowledge if hero takes a bet-call line, he stands to win more, but may not induce the bluff, either.
 
There is a possibility Villain checks back the Ace high flush because of the paired board thus saving Hero from going broke if he did bet. I don’t think this is a high probability, but if it is close between leading out or checking (to call) then maybe this pushes the scale a little bit.
 
And I suppose it's technically pot limit, so hero will be left with like 160k if the check-call line loses. That's definitely chip-and-a-chair-territory. Maybe another small tick toward check-call versus bet-call.
 
Check-call is easy to say with the potential of check-check or a call or a moderate bet. Now that it's a pot sized bet, how big yo balls now?

Context:
Level 20, first hand of day 2, down to 118 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are still not a concern.
No reads on anyone. I am second oldest at the table. One of only three americans. Hoodies, headphones, and sunglasses out in full force. I'm one of the last if not the last 'weekend/homegame warriors/ neighborhood poker dads' left in the event.

Blinds 10k/15k with a 15k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 850k

Posting Hendon mob profiles here just for fun. Table is....just a bit experienced. Average LTD poker earnings north of 500k I think. And then, me.

SB: 500k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=514702
BB 315k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=431938
UTG (Hero) : 655k
UTG + 1): 440k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=142244
MP: 2.6M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=598773
HJ: 1.25M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=108480
CO: 1.45M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=482908
BTN: 290k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=200572

No reads on anyone. My second time day two-ing a WSOP event in the 'production' room, so nerves aren't as bad as they were the previous year.

Shuffle up and deal, hero hopes for a few folds to get settled in - and instead looks at :kh: :qs::th::9s:.

Pot is 40k.

Hero raises to 40k.
MP calls
CO calls
All others fold.

Flop comes :9h::6c::3h:.

Hero BETS 100k.
MP FOLDS
CO CALLS

Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s:

Hero CHECKS.
CO thinks and CHECKS.

River is an improvement card: :9h::6c::3h::3s::4h:

Pot is 345k.

Hero CHECKS
CO thinks for a few seconds and then 'aggressively' announced pot and slams chips down in front of him - bet of 345k.

Action on Hero. Call would leave hero with 170k.
 
Last edited:
MrCatPants said:
Check-call is easy to say with the potential of check-check or a call or a moderate bet. Now that it's a pot sized bet, how big yo balls now?

Context:
Level 20, first hand of day 2, down to 118 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are still not a concern.
No reads on anyone. I am second oldest at the table. One of only three americans. Hoodies, headphones, and sunglasses out in full force. I'm one of the last if not the last 'weekend/homegame warriors/ neighborhood poker dads' left in the event.

Blinds 10k/15k with a 15k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 850k

Posting Hendon mob profiles here just for fun. Table is....just a bit experienced. Average LTD poker earnings north of 500k I think. And then, me.

SB: 500k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=514702
BB 315k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=431938
UTG (Hero) : 655k
UTG + 1): 440k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=142244
MP: 2.6M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=598773
HJ: 1.25M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=108480
CO: 1.45M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=482908
BTN: 290k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=200572

No reads on anyone. My second time day two-ing a WSOP event in the 'production' room, so nerves aren't as bad as they were the previous year.

Shuffle up and deal, hero hopes for a few folds to get settled in - and instead looks at :kh: :qs::th::9s:.

Pot is 40k.

Hero raises to 40k.
MP calls
CO calls
All others fold.

Flop comes :9h::6c::3h:.

Hero BETS 100k.
MP FOLDS
CO CALLS

Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s:

Hero CHECKS.
CO thinks and CHECKS.

River is an improvement card: :9h::6c::3h::3s::4h:

Pot is 345k.

Hero CHECKS
CO thinks for a few seconds and then 'aggressively' announced pot and slams chips down in front of him - bet of 345k.

Action on Hero. Call would leave hero with 170k.
Click to expand...
Well, the big size of the bet and aggressiveness would leave me to believe that he doesn't want a call, but it could certainly be a reverse tell. You say you're 50 or so away from another notable pay jump, I think I'd probably call. Of course it's easier to say that from an outsiders perspective than when you're there in the moment and it's your stack at play.
 
MrCatPants said:
Hero CHECKS
CO thinks for a few seconds and then 'aggressively' announced pot and slams chips down in front of him - bet of 345k.

Action on Hero. Call would leave hero with 170k.
Click to expand...

This would trigger me as a classic "strong means weak" tell, so I think I think I should clearly choose call. That said, it's altogether possible this player is experienced enough to do this as a blatant false action so clearly you should choose fold. Then you should recite this scene from "The Princess Bride" for the amusement of the table. (It is the perfect descriptor of a "leveling war" before we poker nerds were using the term.)


And then after that, you put the chips in and call, that was the plan with this hand. If you're wrong you have a chip and a chair, if you're right you have 1.2M in chips :).
 
JustinInMN said:
This would trigger me as a classic "strong means weak" tell, so I think I think I should clearly choose call. That said, it's altogether possible this player is experienced enough to do this as a blatant false action so clearly you should choose fold. Then you should recite this scene from "The Princess Bride" for the amusement of the table. (It is the perfect descriptor of a "leveling war" before we poker nerds were using the term.)


And then after that, you put the chips in and call, that was the plan with this hand. If you're wrong you have a chip and a chair, if you're right you have 1.2M in chips :).
Click to expand...
"Never go in against a Sicillian, when death is on the line!"
 
MrCatPants said:
Flop comes :9h::6c::3h:.

Hero BETS 100k.
MP FOLDS
CO CALLS

Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s:

Hero CHECKS.
CO thinks and CHECKS.

River is an improvement card: :9h::6c::3h::3s::4h:

Pot is 345k.

Hero CHECKS
CO thinks for a few seconds and then 'aggressively' announced pot and slams chips down in front of him - bet of 345k.

Action on Hero. Call would leave hero with 170k.
Click to expand...
Release.

You've shown weakness on the turn and he checks behind when a virtual blank hits? Maybe a big red flag. A player this savvy could easily (correctly) read your range for big cards that this flop doesn't hit. He wasn't floating I don't think - he'd have bet the turn otherwise. It's possible he flopped middle or bottom set and improved on the turn. He even could have something like 3-4-5-6 and flopped bottom 2 pair.

Now you've checked the river and he pots it with theatrics? From this player he's hoping for a call. His check on the turn could very well be him hoping you improve enough to call a river bet. His range is super polarized with this bet but what bluffs can he have that he'd check back the turn with? Even if he turned the underfull he's probably going to try to charge you something in case you have a big pair or some type of draw.

The more I think about it, I'm convinced he's full or better. I hope you found a fold.
 
Coming home.

Context:
Level 20, first hand of day 2, down to 118 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are still not a concern.
No reads on anyone. I am second oldest at the table. One of only three americans. Hoodies, headphones, and sunglasses out in full force. I'm one of the last if not the last 'weekend/homegame warriors/ neighborhood poker dads' left in the event.

Blinds 10k/15k with a 15k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 850k

Posting Hendon mob profiles here just for fun. Table is....just a bit experienced. Average LTD poker earnings north of 500k I think. And then, me.

SB: 500k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=514702
BB 315k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=431938
UTG (Hero) : 655k
UTG + 1): 440k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=142244
MP: 2.6M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=598773
HJ: 1.25M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=108480
CO: 1.45M https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=482908
BTN: 290k https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=200572

No reads on anyone. My second time day two-ing a WSOP event in the 'production' room, so nerves aren't as bad as they were the previous year.

Shuffle up and deal, hero hopes for a few folds to get settled in - and instead looks at :kh: :qs::th::9s:.

Pot is 40k.

Hero raises to 40k.
MP calls
CO calls
All others fold.

Flop comes :9h::6c::3h:.

Hero BETS 100k.
MP FOLDS
CO CALLS

Turn brings :9h::6c::3h::3s:

Hero CHECKS.
CO thinks and CHECKS.

River is an improvement card: :9h::6c::3h::3s::4h:

Pot is 345k.

Hero CHECKS
CO thinks for a few seconds and then 'aggressively' announced pot and slams chips down in front of him - bet of 345k.

Action on Hero. Call would leave hero with 170k.

Hero TANKS. Like longer than I've ever tanked, four minutes or so. Couple things I considered.

Pro knows I'm a rec. I've shown weakness after c-betting the flop out of position with a larger sizing. This screams aces and flush draws, maybe the odd pair with a gutter type of hand. I should have no boats outside of an occasional 99 with like J1099 double suited - which is still likely too loose for a first hand of the day UTG open. I also look like a friendly neighborhood poker dad who may say "golly gee" when facing a three dollar raise.

I block the 99 so that's unlikely. Is he really calling a hand that has two sixes or a 9/3, 6/3, or 4/3 to a UTG open? He really shouldn't be. And even 99 probably doesn't let the turn go check-check as I have many hands in my range that could call the turn.

Ace high flush would play this way up until this point. But why bomb the river? Outside of my specific hand, you're only getting called by better, and I probably don't have better.

Wraps would play this way, naked 3s would play this way, other stone cold bluffs would play this way. And it's calls like this that make or break you.

I count out the chips just to get the visual on exactly what I'm committing and take a breath before making the call.

::Sopranos style fade to black::
 
Last edited:
First off, well written.

Secondly, yeah maybe we are getting leveled....but there are a whole bunch of bluffs here. He is ratcheting up the pressure to 11, this just feels like a big stack pushing around a small stack.

It's gotta be a check/call. Maybe sometimes you are beat, but I think in the long run, this is a check/call spot.
 
I think he would play a nut flush this way against what he perceives is an amateur player that “doesn’t belong with the pros”.

I got some of this dynamic at a $1500 Dealers Choice WSOP event where there was an average of $4-5M per player in tournament winnings at the table.
 

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