China clay vs plastic Dunes (1 Viewer)

[Goody8504]

I'm interested in building a set of Dunes but from what I can tell there are 2 types of this chip; china clay and plastic. I've ordered a sample set along with 50 chips from Apachepokerchips. The description on the website mentions that there are 2 versions of this chip and specifies that the chips on the site are, in fact, clay and sell for $.42/chip.

From what I've read, there are cues such as labels and edge spots to visually tell one from the other. But I've never been to a casino so don't know what casino chips should feel like. Is there a surefire way to tell if the chips I'll recieve are china clay or plastic?

In retrospect, I wish I had also bought a sample of Paulsons for comparison but even then, wouldn't I also need to order a sample of what I know are cheaper, plastic chips as well to get a feel for both types?

Or if there's anybody who has recently purchased Dunes chips from Apache's website and can easily distinguish between the 2 and can tell me which type are currently on the website, that would be fantastic too.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If you buy from a reputable dealer (like Apache) and ask for China clay, you will get China clay. If you order from a random internet seller their "compression clay" is most frequently plastic.

Most casinos use neither China clay nor the cheap plastic found from internet sellers. Mostly because they are easy to duplicate and bring in forgeries. Neither CC nor cheap plastic feel like Paulson clay or the high quality plastic of Bud Jones, Matsui, or a few others.

Once you get chips in hand, there are a number of ways to tell what it is made of, without the use of a mass spectrometer.

• The feel. China clay feels very different from plastic. Plastic feels like.... well dice chips. China clay feels dusty (until cleaned or used).
• Use a magnet. Most (but not all) plastic chips have a metal slug inside. This gives the chip some weight. These slugs are usually magnetic. If a magnet sticks, it's plastic, because China clay does not use a metal slug.
• Dimples. Because plastic chips are usually injection molded, there is often a dimple where the plastic was injected into the mold. This dimple can be removed in production by a lathe, but cheap plastic manufacturers typically omit this step.
• Smell. New China clay chips have a very distinctive smell. It's kind of like that new car smell. Most people do not like it, and there have been treads written on the topic of removing the smell. I personally like the smell. It smells like "new" to me. Either way, the smell dissipates over time.
• Price. This is the least reliable method, as a random internet dealer may jack up prices to sell cheap plastic claiming it to be clay. Trustworthy dealers like Apache may be running a sale, where the China clay is as cheap as a plastic chip. However, discounting sales and shysters, plastic chips typically sell for <20 cents a chip. China clay usually costs 40-55 cents a chip.
• Weight. China clay usually weighs 9.2-9.3 grams per chip. Plastic chips that are metal slugged come in at 11.4-11.5 grams per chip, and are frequently advertised as "official casino weight". Official casino weight, by the way, is utter bullshit. Modern Paulson chips usually weigh 9 grams per chip, but lose weight as they wear (older Paulson chips used lead and weighed more, but that was phased out many years ago), while Bud Jones v7 chips weigh 12.4g per chip, as do Matsui (more common in European/Asian casinos.) If they claim to be official casino weight, they are most likely plastic.
• Sound. Search Youtube for Hobbyphilic. His videos will help you learn the differences in the sounds of the different chips. Basically, plastic sounds like a metal ting-ting-ting, while clay sounds more thuk-thuk-thuk.

 

[Goody8504]

That's all great info. Thanks a ton! I ordered 50 from Apache that I believe will be china clay, as well as a sample set of 10. I also ordered a roll of 25 x $.50 from amazon that I am pretty sure will end up being plastic. Which reminds me, are there $.50 clay Dunes chips or are all the $.50 chips plastic? All the ones I've seen postings of seem suspect.

With all those additional traits you brought up, I'm fully confident I'll have no difference determining which is which.

Hobbyphilic has a great channel. His videos have been incredibly informative and helpful. He's drawn attention to certain chip flaws I'd otherwise never know about, such as roundness issues with some of the Majestic denominations.

 

[LinkyBabe]

In retrospect, I wish I had also bought a sample of Paulsons for comparison but even then, wouldn't I also need to order a sample of what I know are cheaper, plastic chips as well to get a feel for both types?

You pretty much answered your own question here... this is why you see "get samples" is posted everywhere.

 

[Goody8504]

You pretty much answered your own question here... this is why you see "get samples" is posted everywhere.

Unfortunately, I was unaware of the 2 chip types when I placed the order. I was under the impression all the Dunes chips were made from the same material. Nobody said that, I just stupidly assumed it. A couple hours after, I realized there's a lower quality version out there too. I should have known before I placed the order.

So I did order samples, just didn't realize it wasn't enough samples. Not the end of the world as I'll just have to pay for shipping again to get a sample of Paulsons. You live and learn.

 

[HeWhoWouldPun]

My understanding with the Dunes is that if the label has "Commemorative" on it, it is the "nexgen" plastic variety. The ones comping from Apache do not have that on the label and are china clay. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm incorrect. To echo @Poker Zombie, neither of these materials are used in chips used in casinos.

Note the "commemorative" above the flag/sun/trees. "Nexgen" plastic.

vs the one from Apache (note the lack of "commemorative" above the flag/sun/trees). China clay.

 

[DeeVee8]

I've owned both. The plastics have the same edge spots, while the CC's vary from chip to chip. The plastics are good chips, but very slippery. It used to be that you could get the plastics for .15/per, but now they're harder to find and go for almost the same as the CC's. I would say CC's are the better investment and a better chip.

 

[halfbreed]

The plastic Dunes appear to be no longer sold as far as I can tell (out of stock/link can only be accessed through search) although they still seem to sell a sample set through a similar hidden link. If you bought dunes samples through regular navigation of Apache's website, you ordered the CC (china clay) dunes.

The plastic Dunes are Nexgen material and weigh around 9g. After handling samples, I'd say nexgen chips are probably the best of the super cheap chips. @Hobbyphilic talks about the plastic Dunes chips here:

Visually, plastic dunes all have the same stripe pattern, but some come with shaped "inlays" (the sticker in the center):
https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/dunes-poker-chip-samples/

The CC dunes have varying stripe patterns but all have circular "inlays":
https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/dunes-casino-sample-chips/

Apache sells a super sample set that includes a Nexgen chip and some Paulsons, a Bud Jones chip, and a bunch of other slugged plastic chips, cheap ceramics, and CCs. Minus is that they are only single chips so you can't get a sense of how they feel/sound in stacks. Still, not a bad way to get a better understanding of the different types of chips.
https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/poker-chip-sample-set/

Hope that helps.

 

[Zmasterben]

My understanding with the Dunes is that if the label has "Commemorative" on it, it is the "nexgen" plastic variety. The ones comping from Apache do not have that on the label and are china clay. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm incorrect. To echo @Poker Zombie, neither of these materials are used in chips used in casinos.

Note the "commemorative" above the flag/sun/trees. "Nexgen" plastic.
View attachment 296751

vs the one from Apache (note the lack of "commemorative" above the flag/sun/trees). China clay.
View attachment 296752

Somewhat incorrect. The original china clay run offered by The Chiproom had "Commemorative" on the labels as well. Apache did a new run that did not and had some slight color variations.

The edgespots are the way to tell the difference. The plastic chips all have the same edgespot pattern, the china clays have the varying edgespot patterns.

 

[BGinGA]

There are actually five different versions of the Dunes chips:

• 39mm compression molded clay chips with true shaped inlays, produced by Paulson on the Dunes house mold
• 43mm compression molded clay chips with round inlays for Baccarat games, produced by Paulson on the Dunes house mold
• 39mm 10g china clay chips with oversize round labels and varying spot patterns, introduced by TheChipRoom (who owns the rights to the Dunes artwork)
• 39mm 9g injection-molded plastic chips with faux-shaped labels and a single spot pattern, also introduced by TheChipRoom
• 39mm 10g china clay chips with oversize round labels and updated colors/spot patterns, currently being sold by Apache Poker chips

Both TCR chip offerings have 'Commemorative" on the labels. The Apache version does not.

 

[Goody8504]

Wow! Thanks, all, for the responses. I guess what I'm confused about is this...

I bought 25 x $.50 on amazon from Spinettis Gaming Supplies to compare to what I ordered from Apache.

They're listed on amazon as clay. In a similar listing, a customer asked if they are the clay or plastic type. Spinettis Gaming responded that they are, indeed, clay.

The pictures, however, show samples of commemorative stickered chips (plastic?).

Time will tell, I suppose, when I get the chips in a week. I've just been a little confused about some things having only learning about all of this in the past week

 

[Poker Zombie]

Spinettis is very trustworthy. If they say it's China clay, they are China clay.

 

[FDLmold]

I'm pretty sure all the Spinetti's are the plastic. If I'm wrong, don't eviscerate me please.

 

[halfbreed]

The pictures are the plastic Nexgen ones, the Apache clays don't come in a 50c denom. Dunno if TheChipRoom versions that BG mentioned came in a 50c denom though.

 

[BGinGA]

Spinettis is very trustworthy. If they say it's China clay, they are China clay.

Spinetti's response was incorrect. The pictured chips are plastic.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Spinetti's response was incorrect. The pictured chips are plastic.

I still strongly suspect that the shipped chips will be CC. I don't know how much of their business is budget-minded chips vs collectables.

 

[Goody8504]

Rest assurred, everybody, I will take pics of both and do my best to give my (very limited) opinion once I recieve them.

 

[BGinGA]

. I guess what I'm confused about is this...

I bought 25 x $.50 on amazon from Spinettis Gaming Supplies to compare to what I ordered from Apache. View attachment 296772They're listed on amazon as clay.

Btw, 'clay composite' is marketing hooey for 'plastic'. It NEVER means real clay, no matter who's spouting it.

Zombie, I got 20 bucks says you're wrong. Just how strong is your suspect?

 

[Goody8504]

Btw, 'clay composite' is marketing hooey for 'plastic'. It NEVER means real clay, no matter who's spouting it.

I suspected it was some semantic nonsense like that. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Poker Zombie]

Btw, 'clay composite' is marketing hooey for 'plastic'. It NEVER means real clay, no matter who's spouting it.

Zombie, I got 20 bucks says you're wrong. Just how strong is your suspect?

That 50c chip does put me in a pickle. I retract my statement about Spinettis - at least when it comes to budget chips. I still love them for accessories.

 

[ovo]

There are actually five different versions of the Dunes chips:

• 39mm compression molded clay chips with true shaped inlays, produced by Paulson on the Dunes house mold
• 43mm compression molded clay chips with round inlays for Baccarat games, produced by Paulson on the Dunes house mold
• 39mm 10g china clay chips with oversize round labels and varying spot patterns, introduced by TheChipRoom (who owns the rights to the Dunes artwork)
• 39mm 9g injection-molded plastic chips with faux-shaped labels and a single spot pattern, also introduced by TheChipRoom
• 39mm 10g china clay chips with oversize round labels and updated colors/spot patterns, currently being sold by Apache Poker chips

Both TCR chip offerings have 'Commemorative" on the labels. The Apache version does not.

the chip room sold rights to dunes artwork to apache

 

[alittlemessi]

Rest assurred, everybody, I will take pics of both and do my best to give my (very limited) opinion once I recieve them.

Goody8504, I was looking at getting a set of my own Dunes as well, so I am looking forward to your take on them!

Also, are you getting these for cash games or tournament play? I ask because I am looking at different denominations as I build my own set.

 

[Goody8504]

Also, are you getting these for cash games or tournament play? I ask because I am looking at different denominations as I build my own set.

I'm still deciding but I think I'll build a set with denoms of $25-$1000. Might get a roll of 25 x $5000 because, well, why not?

And I since I ordered some $20 and $.50 chips as samples, if I get like 100 more chips (50 x $.25, 25 (maybe 50?) x $1, and 25 x $5) I can have a fair small cash game setup as well.

 

[toynoob]

I'm still deciding but I think I'll build a set with denoms of $25-$1000. Might get a roll of 25 x $5000 because, well, why not?

And I since I ordered some $20 and $.50 chips as samples, if I get like 100 more chips (50 x $.25, 25 (maybe 50?) x $1, and 25 x $5) I can have a fair small cash game setup as well.

Please don't buy from Amazon when there are members like myself who have new in plastic willing to sell for half price...just takes a wanted ad. I sold a lot of my dunes but still need some denoms, but do have more to sell. PM me

 

[Goody8504]

Please don't buy from Amazon when there are members like myself who have new in plastic willing to sell for half price...just takes a wanted ad. I sold a lot of my dunes but still need some denoms, but do have more to sell. PM me

I hear you. I wanted to verify whether or not the chips advertised as clay by Spinetti's Gaming are actually clay. I've since learned they'll almost certainly be plastic. Plus, the shipping being free was actually cheaper than what I ordered from Apache. But I won't be using Amazon again in the future when it comes to poker chips.

On the plus side, a member who lives literally within miles from me also has Dunes and we're in contact. But if I still need more of certain denoms, I'll definitely send a PM and make a wanted ad.

 

[alittlemessi]

I'm still deciding but I think I'll build a set with denoms of $25-$1000. Might get a roll of 25 x $5000 because, well, why not?

And I since I ordered some $20 and $.50 chips as samples, if I get like 100 more chips (50 x $.25, 25 (maybe 50?) x $1, and 25 x $5) I can have a fair small cash game setup as well.

Nice, I’m looking for a similar setup of $25-$1000 for small tournaments and then $0.25/$0.50/$1.00 for cash games and the occasional blackjack.

I don't blame ya for wanting to get some of the larger numbers, as I’ll be doing the same! Also, the dealer button on apache poker chips website looks pretty sweet.

 

[Goody8504]

Also, the dealer button on apache poker chips website looks pretty sweet.

Absolutely. I'm definitely getting one of those as well.

 

[Goody8504]

So no surprises here but just I wanted to verify that that chips sold on Spinetti's amazon store are actually plastic. I haven't handled them very much yet but enough to determine I prefer the clay version to the plastic version. The clay seems to have a little bit smoother texture on the side. I also like the sound of the clay Dunes over the plastic version. So I'm going to have to agree with those who believe the clay version to be more desireable. Still, I'm satisfied with the purchase considering I can still use them in a cash game without getting any chips mixed up since they're a unique denom.

 

[RenoRounder]

Yes there have been a few versions over the years, but for the most part today, the ones on apache are the good china Clay's... the ones that say commemorative are usually the shit plastic ones. Amazon, spinettis sells these. I really wouldnt recommend them...

 

[Goody8504]

I just recieved some chipco racks and it turns out the plastic chips are actually too thick to fit a full 20 chips per row. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere but I thought I'd throw it out there.