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Did GTO change your game? (1 Viewer)

E

erichazen

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I’ve been running a home game for about 5 years. Lots of gamble and we are all there to just have fun.

I started messing with GTO about 2 months ago for fun and found many of my lines were sub optimal. I had a serious over betting issue so I adjusted my game, and on the last session I did really well. No major swings, just chipped up the entire night with smaller drawdowns than normal.

It seems playing with solvers is helpful but does it kill the fun? I seriously wanted to make plays that would have been non GTO and probably would have lost money but isn’t a home game supposed to be fun? Who has been here and what was your experience with adjusting your style to be closer to GTO lines?
 
GTO, as written, does not work for me. For others it is "the way."

There are parts that I do think affected some aspects of my game, but I would answer your question with, no it did not change my game.
 
I’m a big fan of classic GTOs!
B7841818-C53B-4972-8C6C-531352CA3741.jpeg

But I’m a Ford guy at heart!
494CE1C0-536B-4DB0-9220-114A7FBFEA82.jpeg

As for poker, I’ll forever be FreeRolling! ;)
688E34C6-34D6-41F1-9138-5D2608197EB4.jpeg
 
If I were playing big stakes where a large percentage of the other players were GTO, then I think it has merit.

At my home games…GTO basically would require me to fold everything but AA KK.

Basically…if no one else is GTO it’s really tough to go full send GTO.

But it is nice to remember basic ranges and not to go nuts out of position and to be confident/aggressive in position with a wider range.

I’m not an expert, but I watch a lot of YouTube videos…and use a 10 free hands a day 6-max 50NL solver when I’m bored.

Oh…it doesn’t change my game, either.
 
I almost never find myself in a game where playing GTO would outperform exploitative play. But that doesn't mean it has no merit. It's useful to study, but the vast majority of your opponents are not playing the way the solvers think they are. In the super high roller events, it definitely matters though. You'll get smoked if you're not studying it in those games. But the variance is through the roof.
 
I’m sure some GTO concepts have rubbed off on me since I watch a lot of content, some of it designed to be instructional.
But you’ll never catch me trying to memorize solver crap - that’s no fun. Nor is it likely to be helpful in my .25/.50 home game or the cheap tournaments I like to play.
 
LowerBama1714 said:
If I were playing big stakes where a large percentage of the other players were GTO, then I think it has merit.

At my home games…GTO basically would require me to fold everything but AA KK.

Basically…if no one else is GTO it’s really tough to go full send GTO.

But it is nice to remember basic ranges and not to go nuts out of position and to be confident/aggressive in position with a wider range.

I’m not an expert, but I watch a lot of YouTube videos…and use a 10 free hands a day 6-max 50NL solver when I’m bored.

Oh…it doesn’t change my game, either.
Click to expand...
GTO means that you’re playing in an optimal way - a way that can’t be exploited.

Only playing AA/KK (I realize that was an over generalization) in a certain game would mean that you are deviating from the optimal way of playing (GTO), to employ exploitative play because your opponents play in a way that makes that adjustment more profitable.
 
Eriks said:
GTO means that you’re playing in an optimal way - a way that can’t be exploited.

Only playing AA/KK (I realize that was an over generalization) in a certain game would mean that you are deviating from the optimal way of playing (GTO), to employ exploitative play because your opponents play in a way that makes that adjustment more profitable.
Click to expand...
I was definitely over generalizing in an attempt to illustrate GTO is of no use in my .25/.50 home game with people that have never heard of GTO or Doyle Brunson (or anyone else that plays poker).

I exploit the shit out of them until I’m afraid they realize how much I’ve won from them.
 
I made a joking comment at one home game with new people about one guy that was tanking along the lines of "he's secretly pulling up his range chart over the table" and another guy at the table said "yeah you and I are the only ones that know what that means"

He has avoided playing hands against me from then on, so I guess I'm using the theory of GTO to exploit him at least lol
 
RainmanTrail said:
I almost never find myself in a game where playing GTO would outperform exploitative play. But that doesn't mean it has no merit. It's useful to study, but the vast majority of your opponents are not playing the way the solvers think they are. In the super high roller events, it definitely matters though. You'll get smoked if you're not studying it in those games. But the variance is through the roof.
Click to expand...
I don’t play online but it seems like that would be an ideal place for GTO. Exploitative definitely seems like the right choice for live.
 
LowerBama1714 said:
I was definitely over generalizing in an attempt to illustrate GTO is of no use in my .25/.50 home game with people that have never heard of GTO or Doyle Brunson (or anyone else that plays poker).

I exploit the shit out of them until I’m afraid they realize how much I’ve won from them.
Click to expand...
Caveat…until my sixth beer. Then I forget how much I lose to them…
 
It has helped me. I also don't study it very much though. I just pick up some things from watching videos and reading. I use what I do know as a baseline, but I still play pretty exploitatively in my live game and Pokerrrr 2 games.

Biggest thing it helped me with is understand c-betting textures and bluffing spots/candidates.

But given most hands I play are multiway, a lot of it isn't super relevant.
 
What is the best GTO resources that you've found? I need reviews before I chuck out money!
 
As to the actual topic of the post, I think GTO is great for students of the game, and it represents an advance in strategy at the top echelons, but it's not good for the game itself, particularly online.

It's just skewed way too much in favor of the already winning players. NLHE is already a bit of a hustler's game. At some point it stops being beneficial for skilled players to get so much better than casual players, and it starts hurting the balance of "givers" and "takers" in the game.

People play poker because it's fun and beatable. Banging your head against someone's mathematically airtight strategy is neither.

I've personally seen multiple poker games go up in smoke because one or two skilled players ran over the field too hard. It turns people off. The game needs more gamble, not more optimized thinking.
 
erichazen said:
I started messing with GTO about 2 months ago.......Who has been here and what was your experience with adjusting your style to be closer to GTO lines?
Click to expand...
Lots of us have been where you are now. You are misunderstanding how GTO is meant to be applied.

MrRossKeys said:
GTO, as written, does not work for me. For others it is "the way." .....
Click to expand...
Most people are completely mis-using a little knowledge about GTO & most likely you are too.

RainmanTrail said:
I almost never find myself in a game where playing GTO would outperform exploitative play. But that doesn't mean it has no merit. It's useful to study, but the vast majority of your opponents are not playing the way the solvers think they are. In the super high roller events, it definitely matters though. You'll get smoked if you're not studying it in those games. But the variance is through the roof.
Click to expand...
Lots of truth in this post.

I'm not the world's foremost expert on GTO, but I do understand it enough to know that the purpose is not to play "more like GTO", but rather to understand what GTO is and be able to recognize when and how others vary from it and take that knowledge and then play in a way that best exploits your opponents play.
 
Jimulacrum said:
As to the actual topic of the post, I think GTO is great for students of the game, and it represents an advance in strategy at the top echelons, but it's not good for the game itself, particularly online.

It's just skewed way too much in favor of the already winning players. NLHE is already a bit of a hustler's game. At some point it stops being beneficial for skilled players to get so much better than casual players, and it starts hurting the balance of "givers" and "takers" in the game.

People play poker because it's fun and beatable. Banging your head against someone's mathematically airtight strategy is neither.

I've personally seen multiple poker games go up in smoke because one or two skilled players ran over the field too hard. It turns people off. The game needs more gamble, not more optimized thinking.
Click to expand...
NLHE only players at a circus table. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
1672963588661.gif
 

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