Did Will Kassouf violate WSOP tournament rules by his table talk/gestures here? (1 Viewer)

[12thMan]

They understand revenue.

Agreed.

No, not easy, but also not impossible except for the largest events.

Also agreed, there has to be a way.

 

[phaze12]

If you start at the high rollers which use the best available dealers, it can eventually trickle down to regular and even maybe the smaller buy-in tournaments. No, not easy, but also not impossible except for the largest events.

True. But this can be achieved by more people calling the clock in certain situations. Plus giving the TDs the discretion to penalize (or warn) players for taking too much time on EVERY decision.

 

[manamongkids]

If you start at the high rollers which use the best available dealers, it can eventually trickle down to regular and even maybe the smaller buy-in tournaments. No, not easy, but also not impossible except for the largest events.

they implemented this for a high roller at Crown Casino melbourne. probably a live stream somewhere for it. Ill see if i can find it

 

[manamongkids]

 

[slisk250]

I can see that point of view. But can you imagine having to sit at at table with him every hand? While I'm not a fan of the hoodies-and-headphone crowd, this guy is too much in the other direction. There has to be a middle ground.

^this

and I like watching funny players, even better if they do it with some class.

Negreanu, Dolly, Esfandiari, Farha, Laak, to name a few

Guys I don't bother watching

Tony G., Helmuth, Mike the Mouth, Ivey, zzzzzzz

 

[slisk250]

Kind of reminds me of the rumble! Although the talker was not really an ass hat!

I enjoyed my final hand with him

 

[Kain8]

Ugh, Kassouf's opponent makes my skin crawl. And she runs a freaking WSOP academy? Players like that are easily the bane of the good of the game. If all you're going to do is be an equity robot with no joy and positivity towards your fellow players, go run your precious HUD on Stars and leave live play to actual humans.

 

[Tommy]

"9 high like a boss"

 

[moojersey]

I dunno. He's an idiot obviously, but I would tolerate it. Honestly if I was in that spot with QQ's I would just ask him nicely. "Hey pal can you just give me a minute to think about this?"

 

[rowlin]

"9 high like a boss"

That was one of the highlights for me -
a self-declaration of bossness is pretty boss.

 

[AWenger]

I'm pretty sure he violated 113 (talking about the contents or strength of his hand is allowed only if no other player is facing a decision), since she was facing a decision. My understanding is that you can talk about your hand if you are the last to act and are making a decision.

I like the guy. I don't think there's anything malicious about his talking/gesturing in this hand. But I voted YES for the penalty, but for entirely different reasons than what they actually penalized him for. 1) rule 113 as CdnBeerLover posted above. Him saying "I want you to call" and 2) for saying "9 high like a boss" after the hand, to me, that can be considered taunting.

Other things that are ridiculous about this hand and the discussions afterward:
- Her saying "how come his hand is still live?"
- Floor telling him not to say another word.
- After she responds "you're going to show me a worse hand, what does that mean" Kassouf starts saying something like "I'm not.." but floor cuts him off, saying "she's not talking to you... she's just talking out loud"
- Jack Effel saying the hand gestures (you fold, I'll show) were taunting.
- Almost everything else Jack Effel said, wouldn't listen to Kassouf, wouldn't allow Kassouf to explain himself, cut Kassouf off, etc.
- Guy who calls the clock eventually says "I apologize.." but she cuts him off and says "It's too late now"
- Guy who who calls the clock asks Charlie, the Floor Supervisor "was it out of line?" (to call clock) and Charlie responds... "it was for her tournament life, but this is just my opinion." Umm...Errr.. you were the same Floor Supervisor in charge, and you don't have to uphold all clock requests right away. If Charlie actually though that, why did he uphold the call for the clock immediately. It would have reasonable for the floor to provide her another minute or two before starting the clock.
- In her post-bust-out interview, her revisionist history where she says -- "I was 80 to 90 percent calling" (in the hand with Kassouf), but "all this table talk" and the distraction..."kind of affected my decision...because never in that spot was I folding" :

One thing I thought was spot on:
- Dude who called the clock later saying one reason was "because she seemed like she was really upset with him and arguing about getting him the penalty and wasn't really interested in her cards."

 

[Ellasdaddy]

^^Spot on. I sat thinking the same things watching and rewatching it play out. He deserved the penalty after the hand simply for the rule violation. And she was clearly not 80-90 percent calling before any table talk started. If she was, she'd have called already or wouldn't have fought so hard to get his hand killed.

Guy who called the clock should be hailed as a savior, forcing that nonsense to its end.

 

[BGinGA]

I like the guy. I don't think there's anything malicious about his talking/gesturing in this hand. But I voted YES for the penalty, but for entirely different reasons than what they actually penalized him for. 1) rule 113 as CdnBeerLover posted above. Him saying "I want you to call" and 2) for saying "9 high like a boss" after the hand, to me, that can be considered taunting.

Other things that are ridiculous about this hand and the discussions afterward:
- Her saying "how come his hand is still live?"
- Floor telling him not to say another word.
- After she responds "you're going to show me a worse hand, what does that mean" Kassouf starts saying something like "I'm not.." but floor cuts him off, saying "she's not talking to you... she's just talking out loud"
- Jack Effel saying the hand gestures (you fold, I'll show) were taunting.
- Almost everything else Jack Effel said, wouldn't listen to Kassouf, wouldn't allow Kassouf to explain himself, cut Kassouf off, etc.
- Guy who calls the clock eventually says "I apologize.." but she cuts him off and says "It's too late now"
- Guy who who calls the clock asks Charlie, the Floor Supervisor "was it out of line?" (to call clock) and Charlie responds... "it was for her tournament life, but this is just my opinion." Umm...Errr.. you were the same Floor Supervisor in charge, and you don't have to uphold all clock requests right away. If Charlie actually though that, why did he uphold the call for the clock immediately. It would have reasonable for the floor to provide her another minute or two before starting the clock.
- In her post-bust-out interview, her revisionist history where she says -- "I was 80 to 90 percent calling" (in the hand with Kassouf), but "all this table talk" and the distraction..."kind of affected my decision...because never in that spot was I folding" :

One thing I thought was spot on:
- Dude who called the clock later saying one reason was "because she seemed like she was really upset with him and arguing about getting him the penalty and wasn't really interested in her cards."

^^ this.

Penalty was BS, TD was a total asshat.

Wanna penalize him for breaking the rules? Fine, state your rule(s) and reasons, apply the warning and/or penalty, and move on.

As played out, everybody involved looked worse than the original perp.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If Kassouf was black, and Effel was a cop, Kassouf would have been shot and people would say "why didn't he just do as the cop told him".

While this isn't as extreme as life or death, when an authority figure tells you to STFU... you Shut The F*ck UP

I almost wonder what happened pre-video. Why was Jack right there? Was he called over because she requested the TD for taunting? Videos often make authority figures look bad because we might not be seeing everything.

I'm requesting Effels body cam video, or else I'm going to loot my neighborhood Kwiky Mart!

 

[jbutler]

I like the guy. I don't think there's anything malicious about his talking/gesturing in this hand. But I voted YES for the penalty, but for entirely different reasons than what they actually penalized him for. 1) rule 113 as CdnBeerLover posted above. Him saying "I want you to call" and 2) for saying "9 high like a boss" after the hand, to me, that can be considered taunting.

Other things that are ridiculous about this hand and the discussions afterward:
- Her saying "how come his hand is still live?"
- Floor telling him not to say another word.
- After she responds "you're going to show me a worse hand, what does that mean" Kassouf starts saying something like "I'm not.." but floor cuts him off, saying "she's not talking to you... she's just talking out loud"
- Jack Effel saying the hand gestures (you fold, I'll show) were taunting.
- Almost everything else Jack Effel said, wouldn't listen to Kassouf, wouldn't allow Kassouf to explain himself, cut Kassouf off, etc.
- Guy who calls the clock eventually says "I apologize.." but she cuts him off and says "It's too late now"
- Guy who who calls the clock asks Charlie, the Floor Supervisor "was it out of line?" (to call clock) and Charlie responds... "it was for her tournament life, but this is just my opinion." Umm...Errr.. you were the same Floor Supervisor in charge, and you don't have to uphold all clock requests right away. If Charlie actually though that, why did he uphold the call for the clock immediately. It would have reasonable for the floor to provide her another minute or two before starting the clock.
- In her post-bust-out interview, her revisionist history where she says -- "I was 80 to 90 percent calling" (in the hand with Kassouf), but "all this table talk" and the distraction..."kind of affected my decision...because never in that spot was I folding" :

One thing I thought was spot on:
- Dude who called the clock later saying one reason was "because she seemed like she was really upset with him and arguing about getting him the penalty and wasn't really interested in her cards."

She was a full on tard. One of the funniest things is listening to the bios of players Lon and Chad give and reading between the lines.

Hers was particularly funny. "Stacy was in advertising before she became a poker dealer, ultimately co-founding the Mizrachi Dealer Academy in Hollywood, Florida." So she sold advertising, but either sucked at it or became a degenerate and had to drop down to dealing poker? And then Mizrachi scammed her into "investing" into his dealer academy that luckboxed its way into a profit and now she thinks she's a tourney pro? Gotcha.

 

[jbutler]

If Kassouf was black, and Effel was a cop, Kassouf would have been shot and people would say "why didn't he just do as the cop told him".

While this isn't as extreme as life or death, when an authority figure tells you to STFU... you Shut The F*ck UPext

I almost wonder what happened pre-video. Why was Jack right there? Was he called over because she requested the TD for taunting? Videos often make authority figures look bad because we might not be seeing everything.

I'm requesting Effels body cam video, or else I'm going to loot my neighborhood Kwiky Mart!

 

[Kain8]

She was a full on tard. One of the funniest things is listening to the bios of players Lon and Chad give and reading between the lines.

Hers was particularly funny. "Stacy was in advertising before she became a poker dealer, ultimately co-founding the Mizrachi Dealer Academy in Hollywood, Florida." So she sold advertising, but either sucked at it or became a degenerate and had to drop down to dealing poker? And then Mizrachi scammed her into "investing" into his dealer academy that luckboxed its way into a profit and now she thinks she's a tourney pro? Gotcha.

If I can give you 1,000 likes for that, I would. Well played sir!

 

[Wils]

- Almost everything else Jack Effel said, wouldn't listen to Kassouf, wouldn't allow Kassouf to explain himself, cut Kassouf off, etc.
-

I think he did the same in the 2013(?) main event with J C Tran. Okay Tran was being a bit of a dick and Effel called him out for a chat. Tran said something about how someone said "don't you understand English?" to him and Effel said, "what did you just say? I can't understand English?"

Tran says no, that's not what I meant. Effel says "Right, one round penalty, for being rude and saying I can't understand English." He didn't listen to Tran as he'd already made his mind up (though as I've said, Tran was being a dick anyway).

NB all of the above is as I remember it, so it could completely different to what actually happened

 

[upNdown]

He must be so annoying to play with, but without guys like him, televised poker would be pretty boring.

 

[Kain8]

He must be so annoying to play with, but without guys like him, televised poker would be pretty boring.

Would be boring? I'd rather have a table full of Jean Robert Ballandes and Hevad Khans (how dated is that??) if it meant 2 words were said edgewise during the course of a hand. When everyone is a Dan Colman, it just sucks all of the energy out of poker's potential vibrancy. But since talking is -EV apparently, it's what we're stuck with.

 

[courage]

I think he did the same in the 2013(?) main event with J C Tran. Okay Tran was being a bit of a dick and Effel called him out for a chat. Tran said something about how someone said "don't you understand English?" to him and Effel said, "what did you just say? I can't understand English?"

Tran says no, that's not what I meant. Effel says "Right, one round penalty, for being rude and saying I can't understand English." He didn't listen to Tran as he'd already made his mind up (though as I've said, Tran was being a dick anyway).

NB all of the above is as I remember it, so it could completely different to what actually happened

No, that wasn't JC Tran, no way that's his style. Guy's name was An Tran or something.

 

[Wils]

No, that wasn't JC Tran, no way that's his style. Guy's name was An Tran or something.

You're right, getting my Trans mixed up. It was Henry Tran.

 

[Uzi]

Just put on a headset and do your think tank routine. What the big deal?

 

[jbutler]

Now this is an accomplishment: Kassouf is apparently so annoying that he was tilting the guys in my game last night when we were just watching the WSOP coverage in the background during the game.

I swear at least a couple guys stacked off in spots that they absolutely wouldn't have if they were getting tilted watching Kassouf run off at the mouth on the TV. One guy called off $300+ with AAT4 with spades on a KK4ss board.

 

[mummel]

I know the show needs characters for ratings etc, but this guy is a sphincter. No laws against being a douche, but pull the cameras away from him as not to encourage it. By the way, Sydnee Steele has aged.

 

[courage]

He's mostly amusing to me, although annoying when he's crossing the line discussing hand holdings. Nowhere near the douchebaggery of Justin Schwartz (stealthmunk) and his antics of suggesting player actions when not in a hand. He should have been ejected from WSOP imo.

 

[Zmasterben]

When my 5 year old nephew is acting out my brother will tell him if he says another word he won't get dessert or some other punishment. He will then to proceed to pantomime stuff with a stupid grin on his face thinking he's loopholed the system until he ends up getting in trouble anyways.

I still say he acts more mature in life than Kassouf does at a poker table.

 

[mummel]

I wonder if the TD's are worried about liability or something. I mean, lay down the law, and thats that. Why fck around debating the issue. The rules are the rules.

 

[jbutler]

I wonder if the TD's are worried about liability or something.

Good point they might get sued in poker court.

 

[BGinGA]

Just hope you don't get this guy on the bench..... doesn't look like he has much of a sense of humor.....