Disappointing classifieds sale (5 Viewers)

[Josh Kifer]

Yeah, I haven't trolled anyone, and that's really hard for me to not do.... I'm going to restart that Cancun thread...

 

[WedgeRock]

I'm still new here and as I've read this conversation, I hesitate to chime in for fear of coming across the wrong way but something's bothering me about all this.

Flipping is against the spirit of 'chipping' - that's well established. But it's worth pointing out that flipping exists because a secondary market develops that's driven by scarcity once inventories dry up. It's an inevitability because people here are willing to pay extraordinary markups to get what they want.

If you believe that flipping is a problem, vote with your wallet. Simply don't buy them. If the chipping community as a collective refused to pay these markups, prices would* come down. And if a pattern of unsuccessful flipping develops, they might become discouraged and if they do the problem solves itself.

*In most circumstances, this isn't actually possible. But the chipping community is unique in the sense that it's small and niche enough that I think you could conceivable conspire to control the market.

I know people sell cheap to friends and get first chance to buy the back from seller at the same price down the road. That is the perfect solution. Offer them back to the seller at the purchase price. If they refuse, they should be no problem with selling them for a profit (and no hard feelings).

 

[ssanel54]

I'm still new here and as I've read this conversation, I hesitate to chime in for fear of coming across the wrong way but something's bothering me about all this.

Flipping is against the spirit of 'chipping' - that's well established. But it's worth pointing out that flipping exists because a secondary market develops that's driven by scarcity once inventories dry up. It's an inevitability because people here are willing to pay extraordinary markups to get what they want.

If you believe that flipping is a problem, vote with your wallet. Simply don't buy them. If the chipping community as a collective refused to pay these markups, prices would* come down. And if a pattern of unsuccessful flipping develops, they might become discouraged and if they do the problem solves itself.

*In most circumstances, this isn't actually possible. But the chipping community is unique in the sense that it's small and niche enough that I think you could conceivable conspire to control the market.

The flaw I see in your argument is that the the two types of people who are the most turned off by the rampant flipping are those who are willing to sell their chips at below market rates, only to be taken advantage of and watch someone else realize the profit, or those who wish they could have bought chips at reasonable rates were it not for others who bought them in order to flip for profit. Neither of those groups are influencing the buy side market pricing, and they are already voting with their wallet.

 

[allforcharity]

Believe it or not, I sell for profit (most of the time). Which is strange because in the last year I've still "lost" a huge amount of money in this hobby....

 

[WedgeRock]

I've still "lost" a huge amount of money in this hobby....

If we're being honest, the only one that wins in this hobby, consistently, on every transaction is the USPS.

 

[djmarc]

I misunderstood this, I thought someone was offering to buy at those prices but it probably makes more sense that someone was offering to SELL at those prices.

Yeah- I thought the same thing too.. that someone contacted him and was willing to buy at $30/$40.

 

[CraigT78]

If we're being honest, the only one that wins in this hobby, consistently, on every transaction is the USPS.

Net loss of $3.9 billion - even USPS is a loser here

https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2018/pr18_093.htm

 

[Milo013]

One of those weird situations where it’s hard to put standards on everything.

It's really not . . . you just have lower standards than some.

 

[WedgeRock]

Net loss of $3.9 billion - even USPS is a loser here


https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2018/pr18_093.htm

Pretty sure they are +EV with chippers... Without us, that number could be double.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Neither of those groups are influencing the buy side market pricing, and they are already voting with their wallet.

You may see it differently, but the point I'm trying to make isn't that the non-flipping sellers are driving prices up. The flippers' method of acquisition is irrelevant. The prices are driven up by the willingness of the buyers to pay those prices, whomever they may be.

The same thing is happening with old N64 cartridges. The average price has doubled since 2008 (source) and continues to trend upward because 1) collectors are willing to pay the higher prices, and 2) demand exceeds supply.

 

[mike32]

Net loss of $3.9 billion - even USPS is a loser here

https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2018/pr18_093.htm

The USPS loses money on every shipment, but they make up for it with volume!

 

[stocky]

I love how there’s a 50/50 chance of being labeled a flipper or worse on this site. Like who doesn’t love a good flip

 

[WedgeRock]

The USPS loses money on every shipment, but they make up for it with volume!

The USPS? Or is this a new chapter in your book?

 

[ssanel54]

You may see it differently, but the point I'm trying to make isn't that the non-flipping sellers are driving prices up. The flippers' method of acquisition is irrelevant. The prices are driven up by the willingness of the buyers to pay those prices, whomever they may be.

The same thing is happening with old N64 cartridges. The average price has doubled since 2008 (source) and continues to trend upward because 1) collectors are willing to pay the higher prices, and 2) demand exceeds supply.

No, you are definitely correct. Im just trying to say the people who are buying the chips don’t necessarily have an issue with the flipping.

 

[ranger764]

You may see it differently, but the point I'm trying to make isn't that the non-flipping sellers are driving prices up. The flippers' method of acquisition is irrelevant. The prices are driven up by the willingness of the buyers to pay those prices, whomever they may be.

The same thing is happening with old N64 cartridges. The average price has doubled since 2008 (source) and continues to trend upward because 1) collectors are willing to pay the higher prices, and 2) demand exceeds supply.

Hmm, looks like I have some N64 cartridges to find In my basement

 

[Perthmike]

If we're being honest, the only one that wins in this hobby, consistently, on every transaction is the USPS.

My god I've lined their coffers this past couple of years. In scared to add up what I've spent on usps

 

[Moxie Mike]

I'm just trying to say the people who are buying the chips don’t necessarily have an issue with the flipping.

This is true of just about anything... art collectors who bid and spend tens of millions of dollars for an original Picasso probably aren't preoccupied with how their purchase price will affect the market. But if you're an art connoisseur who's concerned about skyrocketing prices of rare original art, it's just as reasonable to 'blame' the buyer willing to pay those prices as much as it is to criticize the seller hoping to maximize their profits.

 

[Josh Kifer]

This is true of just about anything... art collectors who bid and spend tens of millions of dollars for an original Picasso probably aren't preoccupied with how their purchase price will affect the market. But if you're an art connoisseur who's concerned about skyrocketing prices of rare original art, it's just as reasonable to 'blame' the buyer willing to pay those prices as much as it is to criticize the seller hoping to maximize their profits.

Meh. No one would disagree with some classic chips like the Tropicana going for big bucks. But I don't know many art collectors who buy a new freshly made painting for cheap and resell it four days later for 10x the cost. You're talking apples and oranges there. Your point is super valid, but the art example was a miss.

I think validating flipping was never the point here. It's more that it kinda sours the idea of what alot of people do here. And when an awesome chipper gives someone a deal and then they exploit it a few days later, it's freaking lame. Does he have a right to do that, sure. But as the big Lebowski taught us....

Flippers are totally right to do what they do.... But, it doesn't mean they arnt acting like assholes.

And I'm not calling Moxie an asshole... He's a good guy... Maybe calling the flippers assholes. But no member in particular

 

[Moxie Mike]

Your point is super valid, but the art example was a miss.

Maybe that example was on the extreme end of the spectrum, but it illustrates the point that the buyer owns some culpability with respect to prices of scarce items.

And I'm not calling Moxie an asshole... He's a good guy... Maybe calling the flippers assholes. But no member in particular

Good thing you clarified this... for a minute there I thought you were trying to get dealt 2-7o in the upcoming giveaway

 

[Josh Kifer]

Maybe that example was on the extreme end of the spectrum, but it illustrates the point that the buyer owns some culpability with respect to prices of scarce items.



Good thing you clarified this... for a minute there I thought you were trying to get dealt 2-7o in the upcoming giveaway

Oh, that hand is coming my way no matter what!

I get what your throwing down, I would agree more if this was a large scale product, but if someone buys some chips, takes a few, resells the rest for a larger profit, and won't give the old seller even the respect to talk if he spoke up, let's call a spade, a spade....

If anyone PMs me with a concern, I'd treat them with the common decency to chat, explain, hell... Buy them lunch with the profit, whatever. Our community is too small to burn bridges for pennies on the dollar in my mind.

We have a few hundred truely active members, and a good chunk of them treat each other with a genuine respect and this is a somewhat important part of our day to day life. The boat chips changed that for some people. BTP did a bit too, and the new golden age of flipping has done it too.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Fyi most people fortunate to be in on the BTPs kept their chips

 

[k9dr]

As did most people who bought Star Cruise Line chips

 

[CraigT78]

Fyi most people fortunate to be in on the BTPs kept their chips

As did most people who bought Star Cruise Line chips

As did the people in the WCPR chips

 

[navels]

let me interrupt this thread with my latest craigslist score, en route:

Spoiler

 

[Changster]

let me interrupt this thread with my latest craigslist score, en route:

Spoiler

View attachment 285655

Lol that looks like a city in China.

 

[hdgeno]

Right after the Jacks sale when people were scrambling to get their sets together I was offered $30 a chip for Jack 1k’s and $40 a chip for Jack 5k’s...

Needless to say I politely declined. But still... it’s like WTF.

I’ve made money on a few deals, mostly I’ve had losses when selling over the years. Overall I would be well in the hole, but haven’t ever kept track. That kind of pricing is ridiculous though, blatant gouging.

 

[pltrgyst]

let me interrupt this thread with my latest craigslist score, en route:

Spoiler

View attachment 285655

You overpaid.

 

[One Eyed Dollar]

I think validating flipping was never the point here. It's more that it kinda sours the idea of what alot of people do here. And when an awesome chipper gives someone a deal and then they exploit it a few days later, it's freaking lame. Does he have a right to do that, sure. But as the big Lebowski taught us....

I had this happen to me years ago when I was in a classic car club. I sold some wheels pretty cheap to a buddy thinking he was going to use them on his car. But he just flipped them to somebody else at a higher price. I could have done that and made the profit myself. I was giving him a "friend price". No more friend prices for him after that.

With the car club, we were obviously all enthusiasts with a common interest and mostly friends, but some people treated it differently as a way to make money. One guy I was friends with just bought, sold, and traded cars constantly. Over the course of 5 years he traded up from about a $10,000 car to a $50,000 car with his constant flipping.

PCF feels the same way to me. Obviously everyone here loves poker chips, but they see the community in different ways.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

I had this happen to me years ago when I was in a classic car club. I sold some wheels pretty cheap to a buddy thinking he was going to use them on his car. But he just flipped them to somebody else at a higher price. I could have done that and made the profit myself. I was giving him a "friend price". No more friend prices for him after that.

With the car club, we were obviously all enthusiasts with a common interest and mostly friends, but some people treated it differently as a way to make money. One guy I was friends with just bought, sold, and traded cars constantly. Over the course of 5 years he traded up from about a $10,000 car to a $50,000 car with his constant flipping.

PCF feels the same way to me. Obviously everyone here loves poker chips, but they see the community in different ways.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Building computers, I saw graphics card prices get all jacked up because there was high demand and low supply (during the cryptocurrency period of insanity)

So for instance the graphics card in my wifes computer which had cost $250 brand new was selling for $400 USED at one point.

Recently Nvidia released their new 20xx series of cards, and they flipped the script. Having seen that people were willing to pay inflated prices, they jumped up all the cards to the next tier pricepoint.

So the cards that were $250 are now around $390. The cards that were $500-550 are now $700-800. The $700 cards are now $1200+. Personally I think it's just stupid, so I vote with my wallet and refuse to pay the prices (plus I don't NEED an upgrade for years to come anyway)

I can understand the frustration when you believe in "chip karma" and you want to see the community be helpful and kind to one another. But unfortunately it's impossible to expect that from everyone.

In the future note who you don't want to sell to if flipping for profit upsets you, and let the buyers you're comfortable with scoop up the deals. I mean, I love the boat chips and the big top chips, but I wouldn't pay the stupid prices for them, I'd rather use that money to get myself a truly custom set of my own (for less!)