Do "Tells" Exist? (3 Viewers)

[pltrgyst]

From Smithsonian Magazine:

https://bit.ly/3dk8KNc

 

[Frogzilla]

100%

 

[RudysNYC]

Anyone who doesn't think tells exist has a standing invite to my game

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Yes, but dont expect to ever see anything obvious. The vast majority of players youll find in casinos are aware and try to hide them. You have to really watch people on every hand, of everything they do, how they bet, how they posture, how they pause, and then see what their hand was to reverse engineer their actions. The hard part is the vast majority of hands dont go to showdown, or the player will simply muck the cards.

 

[ChipFinderSK]

Interesting read; thanks for sharing

 

[Lil Tuna]

From Smithsonian Magazine:

https://bit.ly/3dk8KNc

Great article Larry and yes, tells at the poker table do exist. You for instance always smile just before you’re about to raise and you continue to smile as you rake in those blinds you just stole.

 

[upNdown]

Yes, but dont expect to ever see anything obvious. The vast majority of players youll find in casinos are aware and try to hide them. You have to really watch people on every hand, of everything they do, how they bet, how they posture, how they pause, and then see what their hand was to reverse engineer their actions. The hard part is the vast majority of hands dont go to showdown, or the player will simply muck the cards.

Right. It isn't about stereotypical cues, like averting their gaze means they're lying. Poker is a game of lying. Even the least practiced player is aware of the term "poker face" and probably can do a fair job of maintaining one. When I've heard poker pros speak about this, the more common advice I've heard isn't to look for stereotypical cues as discussed in the article, but to look for differences. For example, they'll have a conversation with a player away from the table, beforehand, or during a break, to try to get a feel for what's normal. Then, when they see differences at the table, the differences probably mean something. (WHAT it might mean is a whole other story.)

But for inexperienced players, the Caro/Rounders advice is usually pretty solid - weak means strong, strong means weak. I wouldn't bet the house on it or anything, but it can be helpful.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

lol, thats probably why I win so much in casinos... I'm weak with weak hands and aggressive with strong ones. They never see it coming.

 

[BukNaked36]

I've watched a few https://www.beyondtells.com/ videos and have not been impressed. Stuff like "strong means weak... except for this player where strong meant strong"

It's basically what the article is saying - behaviors are too individualistic to really be able to classify something as a tell for everyone.

I have picked up a few in game. It's fairly obvious tells from inexperienced players like -

- I have a friend that stares at the flop when he misses.
- Preflop, guys suddenly sit up straight in their seats when they pick up a good hand and start closely watching the action. I've caught myself doing this a few times.
- Guys that can you tell are done with a hand and ready to fold - look bored or frustrated and quickly check
- A speech is generally looking for a call

 

[Silver_Fiend]

The current situation with plexiglass dividers between everyone also really cuts down on what you are able to see, aside from gross movement like posture changes.

 

[LeLe]

There are tells, simple one are like the guy just cant wait to put in his chip ; already counting his chip before the guy on his right call or raise.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

There are tells, simple one are like the guy just cant wait to put in his chip ; already counting his chip before the guy on his right call or raise.

Yeah, but I've seen a lot of players who pretend to be counting and stacking chips to push in, then fold.

 

[LeLe]

Yeah, but I've seen a lot of players who pretend to be counting and stacking chips to push in, then fold.

A lot depend on live poker, some tell seem legit as some of them just dont play too much live poker so they didnt know that they are showing this tell at al.

 

[CraigT78]

I have a tell. It usually involves havening cards in front of me.

 

[trigs]

I don't know any tells that are universal. IMHO, they are all based on the individual, and even then, it can change game to game for the individual depending on how they're doing that day.

These are the easiest ones to pick up on in my opinion (but again, it's not always the case):

• player who normally isn't a chip shuffler reaches for and grabs chips before their action - they are going to bet/raise
• player who normally pays somewhat attention is suddenly completely uninterested in the hand or action before them (looking away, looking at phone, etc.) - they are going to fold
• player who talks a lot suddenly stops talking - they have a good hand
• player who rarely talks starts talking while action on them - they have a good hand
• player who is kind of holding their hole cards slightly off the table before their action (this might not be the best description but some people just hold/touch their cards differently when they are planning to fold) - they are waiting to fold
• capping or not capping their cards - if you are a card capper, then you definitely should cap them every time even if you plan to fold - probably the easiest tell I've ever seen people do

I also feel that a lot of people give off tells in the middle of the hand when their opponent reaches for their own chips. Depending on the player, people will hold their breath when they see their opponent reach for chips - could be good or bad though depending.

 

[upNdown]

This one is universal.
When a player, (usually a crappy one, who thinks slow-playing is the height of strategy) who hasn’t acted yet, facing a preflop raise, looks at his cards, then tosses his open hand up a bit in the shruggish, “oh what the heck, I’ll play along” manner.
That man has the goods.

 

[Kain8]

The players who have tells are so abysmal in their play that it's a moot point.

 

[Moxie Mike]

The players who have tells are so abysmal in their play that it's a moot point.

I don't agree. There are solid players who are prone to giving away information with their body language.

The biggest thing if you're looking for tells (that you're actually going to use as part of the decision making process) is to establish a baseline. Watch the way they say or don't say the word 'check', or the way they push chips forward when the bet/call. Watch them watch the flop - what patterns can you establish?

Sometimes you can induce a tell. One time in a tournament an opponent made a sizable river bet into me on a very straighty board while I held a modest 2-pair hand. He sat stoic as I pondered a call... then I started talking to myself out loud. I carved out a call out of my stack and said 'what's this going to leave me with', as I observed his posture. When I said this, he swallowed nervously. That was the information I needed to make what would turn out to be the correct call.

Another time against a player I have a ton of history with, it was late in a tournament where as the big stack I was raising often. I opened with A8o... and the player in question jammed over the top from the BB for about 1/5 of my stack. He immediately began jabbering like he often does when he's pretending to be comfortable.

After about 30 seconds of pondering, I asked for a count and said out loud 'I have the same hand I folded last time'... referring to a hand a few minutes prior where I folded a modest ace to an all in bet. After I said that, he stiffened up, folded his hands in front of him and stared forward at the center of the table and didn't make another sound.

He was clearly trying not to draw attention to himself. I assessed that his banter was a 'strong means weak' tell and ultimately made the call. He turned over A5.

 

[pltrgyst]

I have a tell. It usually involves havening cards beer in front of me.

fyp...

 

[surfik]

I more rely on betting patterns

 

[Coyote]

It's not that difficult to always do the same in order to not be "read": Just always do what you anyway do most of the time.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

This article is interesting, but it seems to focus on whether specific actions can be consistently attributed to lying. That's not how tells work.

As others have said, tells are all about establishing a baseline, finding deviations from that baseline, and figuring out what they mean. The same deviation by two different players can mean completely different things.

I don't spend a lot of time focusing on physical or verbal tells - in the games I usually play, I get almost all my info from betting: size, frequency and patterns.

Still, tells are a thing, and I've won more/lost less a number of times over the years because of them.

 

[Taghkanic]

I’ve been in a home game for years with a truly terrible player who literally looks back and forth at the board while counting out his fingers to verify whether he’s made a straight.

If he did, he bets. If he didn’t, he makes a disgusted face.

Could be a tell?

 

[Taghkanic]

A speech is generally looking for a call

I used to play with a skilled former pro who I knew subscribed to the speech theory. If I was bluffing him, I’d sometimes make a speech to try to get a fold. Not always, so he wouldn’t catch on. It generally worked.

So like others have said: No rule works for all players all the time. The only thing that matters is observing patterns for individuals. And even then, I try to think of perceived tells as tie-breakers, not absolute decision-makers.

 

[JustinInMN]

I had a near perfect tell on a guy in my local room. If he calls a bet on the flop and puts his hands on the chip stack again, he plans to fold the turn. (Note limit game)

I would bet most of my range into this guy on the turn and he would only continue if he improved. I might check bigger card that don't help me because I figure this guy usually has missed overs or a gutter or some other weak draw.

But amazing how many pots I could win with ATC against this guy.

 

[surfik]

I had a near perfect tell on a guy in my local room. If he calls a bet on the flop and puts his hands on the chip stack again, he plans to fold the turn. (Note limit game)

I would bet most of my range into this guy on the turn and he would only continue if he improved. I might check bigger card that don't help me because I figure this guy usually has missed overs or a gutter or some other weak draw.

But amazing how many pots I could win with ATC against this guy.

I played with guy that had so obvious betting patter that I was able to fold bottom set. Twice

He never learned...

 

[Steve Birrer]

Do tells exist? Certainly.

But to me, that isn't really the question.

The real question is do you play with a certain player enough to recognize their tell AND what it means. In home games that's perhaps doable. For many players like me, not so much. I don't play in casinos much and haven't now in over a year. So while somebody may pick up on something that I do, do they really have enough information to know what it really means! I doubt it. Point being it takes lots of hands against a certain player to recognize a tell and what it tends to mean. If I sit down at a table I don't think you'll see me do enough of the same thing under the same circumstances to get much out of it.

Ok you think I look nervous. I am nervous every hand I am in.....lol. From a bluff to the nuts.

 

[Highli99]

@Chippy McChiperson @kirchhausen

 

[allforcharity]

There's no universal tells. Unless you're a dog.

 

[Taghkanic]

I've heard it said that timing tells are a lot more reliable) and easier to spot) than physical tells. Thoughts?

Ex.: If a player does not pause to think before acting on a postflop street, that may cap their hand. The idea (again, just as I've heard it) is that if they made a very strong hand, they are likely to need to pause to consider how to get value.

Say someone boats up on the turn; they are likely to think a bit about whether to slow play to let others catch up some on the river, or how big they can bet or raise without causing the villain(s) to fold.

Obviously it has got to be at least somewhat player-and table dependent. An experienced and confident player may already know how they plan to act, or have the self-control to behave the same way as they would when weaker.