That looks fine. Just as long as the chips don’t get too close to the edge of the spacers…and yours appear to be fine.
Have you tried lining up the spacers/chips in between the tension screws? The stack tends to shift the further forward you go in the clamp
I did… the problem is more about flattening rack ends as it hits first unless I put an extra two 39 mm ceramics on the end but that’s being sorted out by @Sparkynutz
I am about to start a project which involves both flattening and murdering.
I'd try a damp Magic Eraser, but if that doesn't work, you're probably out of luck unless you sand them. I wouldn't do it personally, but a couple of easy swipes with wet 7000 grit might get the job done.
Thank you; I'll give it a try. At this point, I've already accepted them as goners. Will also need a magnifying glass to work around those hot stamps.
Wow that’s very surprising, I’ve flattened plenty of Paulsons with ceramic spacers and never had color transfer
They were pink solids, so the color transfer is very obvious.
What were the casino ceramics?
Some ceramic chip inks will transfer to your hands, other chips, or the playing surface, just during normal usage. No way would I ever risk printed ceramics directly transferring ink to a clay chip (even in storage), much less when heat and pressure are added.
Looks like I'm a trial-and-error type learner.
That happened to me once. It was cold outside. I usually use my car to heat the chips. They heat up to about 140f or 150f while im at work. It's slow and works well for me. Since that wasn't an option, I decided to use hot water. Well, water is special and I think it helped to transfer the ink. They were Tina ceramics so my bad. It's not noticeable to anyone else but me. Shit happens. It was only a few, maybe 10 chips. I used a magic eraser to lift some but not all of the ink. So it's less noticeable. Paulsons are lavenders so not very light.
You might consider the hydrogen peroxide soak, @Josh Kifer care to chime in?
Pm sent.
Can this be done without sacrificing the hot stamp?
I sent you a PM
I got some great direction via PM and a plan. I'll keep this thread informed with the outcome. Fingers crossed.
I've been asked to share my method for flattening chips (which I learned from this thread).During the summer, I started to feel out the process of flattening some chips that i have, and like most people, I've tried out different methods posted here. I finally settled on what seems to work best for me to get consistent and lasting results. Some of the info is repeating the OP and others who've posted here:
DISCLAIMER: I've only used this method on Paulson THC hot stamp chips only so far. Everyone's oven will be different - some will heat up quicker and hold the heat longer.
- Chip & Clamp setup used for 20x chips (one barrel total):
- 21 chip - 43mm ribbed Chip Flattening Rack @One Eyed Dollar
- 12" POWERTEC Handscrew Clamp (These work just as fine as the Bessey and are one of the more affordable options at the moment; 2x @ $42. I also have a 12" Bessey but prices on those have spiked recently).
- 22x 43mm Blank Ceramic spacers (available from @BR Pro Poker)
- I prefer the 12" clamp and the 43mm blanks setup for a couple of reasons:
- It allows for clearance all around the chip/spacers (see pic #3 & #4), and the clamps lay flat on the oven racks without having the chips or spacers touch the metal, which makes me more comfortable.
- You're able to get more torque and even pressure when tightening (don't need to kill it though) and the 12" clamps tend to stay in place better than the 10" or less versions (all sizes of clamps will need tightening directly after baking and periodically while cooling imo, you'll need to tighten the clamp less often when using a 12").
- Note: This set up and the placement of the chips/spacers will not work with a 10" clamp using the 43mm spacers, you'll only be able to fit one row (10x chips) in between the tightening screws.
- Temperature and time (I've been using a standard, non-convection Hotpoint brand oven - means there's no fan inside the oven):
- I don't use my oven's temperature settings. I use a Polder thermometer probe and suspend the probe inside my oven (similar to @BSteck's setup), making sure the probe doesn't touch anything to get a more accurate temperature inside my oven.
- Target range is 130F to ~160F with a goal of keeping it ~140F for at least 45-60 minutes (w/o opening the oven door constantly).
- I use a temperature range, because it's nearly impossible for me to maintain an exact temperature for an extended period of time with my oven (as with most of our ovens). Instead, I do the following:
- I pre-heat my oven until the probe temp hits 143F then shut it off; the temperature will continue to rise to ~155-160F after I shut off my oven and then steadily decrease thereafter.
- Depending on the ambient temperature in my kitchen, it takes about 15 minutes for the internal oven temp to reach 130F on the probe - at this time, I'll turn on my oven again until the temp hits 143F again, shut it off and repeat this step 2 more times.
- Don't freak out if you accidently allow the temperature to go above this range. You can always open the door to release some heat and bring down the temperature quicker.
- I know some may think my temperature settings/recommendations are too high, but please see below for my reasoning.
- As mentioned above, I keep the internal temperature of my oven between 130F and 160F. I've done this for +1,000 chips so far with no damage to any of my chips. I've hit an oven temp as high as 170F for some batches with no ill effects; however, I don't recommend going over 160F. I think it's not necessary to heat the chips at that high of a temperature.
- I'm comfortable between 130F to 160F with a goal of keeping it around 140F, because even though the oven temp might seem high, the estimated outside temperature of the chips is still within the ~120F-130F range. The internal temp of the chips/spacers might be a bit higher than this range, but again, I have not had a problem so far. I've used this process on very used chips to Near Mint chips. The snapshots below were taken as soon as i opened the oven door at two different points during my heating process:
(pic taken directly out of the oven)
- Cooling:
- Right after taking the clamps from the oven, I tighten them down. No need to kill it or tighten the clams as much as possible - I just tighten them until i feel there's pressure on the chips again. Everything expands a bit in the oven, and the clamps tend to loosen slightly.
- As the chips continue to cool, I continue to tighten the clamps slightly - especially every 3-5 minutes for the first ~20 minutes after removing them from the heat. After this ~20 minute period, i tighten the clamp periodically just in case, but most of the time it's not necessary, especially after an hour of cooling.
- I let the chips completely cool to room temperature before removing from the clamps - usually takes ~3-5 hours, depending on the ambient temperature in my kitchen.
- I have tried speeding up this process by using a small fan and more tightening of the clamps in a shorter period of time, but I felt I got better results by letting them cool down naturally.
- I haven't seen too much of a difference between cooling to room temp and leaving them in the clamp for hours more; however, it doesn't hurt to keep them in the clamp for as long as you'd like. My heating process is longer than most, so the cooling time is already extended, but with that said, i have kept chips to cool for 24+ hours with the same or similar results as cooling to room temp.
Example results:
- Before heating/clamping next to a Mint barrel
- After the process next to the same Mint barrel, and then next to another pre-flattened barrel
NOTES and observations/opinions
- For my oven, heating at 120F for 20-30 minutes did not yield lasting results IMO. After cooling at room temp, some chips had flattened but there were a few that refused to flatten. Even running the same barrel again with the same process, I yielded the same results.
- For me, the process that i described above has yielded nearly all flat chips after the first pass; however, there are still the outlier chips that will need a second run.
- Keeping constant pressure and tightening the clamps while cooling is important.
- The first batch of 400 chips that i tested this process on, were all very used and very warped chips. Of the first 400 chips, nearly all needed a second run. A month after the second run, I notice that some chips reverted back to being slightly warped again - these were probably the ones that had the most extreme bends; however, 3 months later, the vast majority of this batch remains flat and stack really well.
- After utilizing this process on many chips afterwards, I noticed that regardless if the chip is very casino used or Near Mint - if the chip has extreme warping, it's possible to get them completely flat, but most likely there's a chance that they will eventually show some slight warpage as time goes on. From my experience, when these chips do revert back a bit, they haven't returned to the extreme warped state that they were previously in.
- This has happened in as short of a period of 24-48 hours after removing them from the clamp. Some have taken a week or longer to show signs of warping.
- The clamping times for these batch were the same as mentioned above - a minimum of 3-5 hours (cooled to room temp) and as long as 24+ hours. FWIW, the few chips that showed signs of warping again after 24-48 were NM and clamped for 24+ hours.
- Highly recommend cleaning beforehand, especially if you use an ultrasonic cleaner. I haven't seen consistent proof of this, but the one batch I did flatten first, then cleaned with an u/s cleaner, i noticed that the warping had returned to quite a few chips after a pre-soak and bath in the u/s.
Nice review of your process! I would stress that the force needed on the clamp to make flat chips is so much less than I expected. Even clamping with JUST enough pressure that the chips don’t fall out of the clamp is generally sufficient.I've been asked to share my method for flattening chips (which I learned from this thread).
I don't have pictures unfortunately but here's my two cents from my experience with flattening 39 cm THC chips (mostly leaded):
I use the heating pad method proposed by @Colquhoun and with the Series 700 extra long heating pad from CVS suggested by @Goldfish
I try to follow the instructions that were proposed by @juankay20 and I have amended his post to show a 21 chip spacer from @One Eyed Dollar (but to my understanding these are unavailable anymore), so luckily @Sparkynutz has made two different versions, one that I have found most effective for flattening chips with wood clamps (don't have to be Bessey but I have both a 10" and a 12").
I have not tried other clamps, which were suggested, such as the gun clamps. My opinion is that with mostly 10+ gram chips, I felt like I could turn the handles a decent amount (until I feel enough resistance) and I repeated the process periodically as the chips cooled down, without damaging or overflattening the chips.
I think it may be different with UNLEADED chips, because with the 9+ gram Copa's (partially leaded?) that I also flattened, I felt like needed much less force and they felt different when I tried to turn the handles (more fragile) so I would be more careful with unleaded chips for sure (as I have not tried flattening those).
When I used the wood clamps, I think I prefer the 12" because I think it covered all the chips/spacers better and I felt like it gave me more room to for control cranking the handles than the 10" but the 10" still works (I'm not buying more than those - but also I'm lucky that my uncle loves wood clamps and he had two more each 14" and 12") so I used those with the one heat pad and a bunch of blank ceramics (bought some blanks with multicolor edges from @BR Pro Poker and completely blank 43 mm from @Sparkynutz).
So here's my method in a nutshell (you can modify all you like):
*If you use a warm cleaning method, I would clean the chips before you flatten or else they may warp again.
1. Ideally place yourself in a cool room, if it's too warm, the chips will not cool enough and will warp again if unclamped or left on their side in a chip rack.
2. Preheat the heat pad to 140 degrees.
3. Place 20 of the chips you want to flatten inside the hot pack (I like in the center - not too near the edges) and fold the hot pad.
*If you don't have two wood clamps, you would only need to place 10 of the chips you want to flatten. You can also put the 11 ceramic blanks in the heat pad together.
**This process is different than the one described above because in my opinion, when I had placed two sets of 21 chips side by side to flatten, there was less control over each individual set and I found that they didn't flatten as much as I wanted and I had to repeat the process, sometimes more than once (I think it's because of the variance in the amount of warped chips per stack and it can be difficult to angle the clamps perfectly).
*I like that I can crank more for the set that's more warped and less for the set that's less warped.
4. Place the 22, 43 mm ceramic blanks on top of the heat pack to warm (I don't think the ceramics are that important to get to the same temperature as the chips you are trying to flatten - but I think that the cooler they are, the more heat they will suck out of the chips you are trying to flatten leaving you with a shortened window to flatten the chips overall).
*You need 11, 43 mm ceramic blanks per clamp.
5. Start a timer for 10 minutes, sometimes I lose track and it goes a little longer but generally the temperature of the chips is around 125 degrees or so when I use my thermapen or temperature gun to read it (you shouldn't need to read it if you are following the time points).
*While you do this you should have your flattening rack ready and fit it between the wood clamp(s) so that there is just enough space for it to fit with the extra overhanging blank (based on the flattening rack by @Sparkynutz) - so that it doesn't just fall over the edge of the flattening rack and make the clamp compress the flattening rack instead of the stack of chips you're trying to flatten.
I recommend practicing this while the chips aren't hot because as I said before the time window to flatten the chips shortens the cooler the chips get...
6. After 10 minutes, take the ceramic blanks off the top, open the heat pad and place them inside the hot pad to keep them warm while you stack your 21 chips (11 blanks and 10 chips) and put them in the flattening rack in alternating fashion so that the blanks are on the outside.
Then I place the 2nd stack in the other clamp the same way (they stay warm longer since they are inside the hot pad while I'm putting the 1st stack in the first clamp.
*You can repeat this process with as many clamps or multiple hot packs as needed, if you're good at multi-tasking.
7. Probably should follow specific times like @juankay20 but I just crank it periodically when a little bit of time passes and if I feel a lot of resistance I don't crank more, but if I feel it's loose I crank until I feel the resistance again.
*I like to do this while watching something else because the process is easy but time consuming..
*If you are using multiple clamps, I recommend aligning them in a way where you can easily move through them keeping track of how long each one has been in the process.
8. Once the chips feel much cooler, typically around an hour or so if you're timing it, they won't really flatten much more and that's how flat you will get it that time around (sometimes you have to go more than once). Especially if you wait too long in between periodically cranking because you got too caught up in the show you were watching or whatever...
*When I checked the temperature around this time, it was a couple degrees above the above the clamp temperature or so (I did NOT heat the clamps) - my opinion is the warmer the clamps, the longer this process goes (takes longer to get to room temperature - it will absorb the heat from the blanks/chips at a certain rate).
9. Remove the chips from the clamps and stack them and then hand pinch to see if they are as flat as you'd like, if not you will have to repeat the process unfortunately (you will find how much you can crank over time IMO).
10. When the chips are as flat as you'd like as I stated above, I would recommend storing them in a cool area (I store them in the basement and I stack them) so that they cool and set the best they can in the flattened state. I'm not sure how long to store them in that position, but I'd say at least 24 hours.
*I have found that when I leave them on their side in a rack in a warmer environment, it can warp again... so for those that live in hot states, I do not envy you...
*I haven't retested the ones I flattened by putting them back in a warm environment again because I don't enjoy flattening the chips over and over again, it can get frustrating...(like didn't I just flatten those?).
*I believe anything around 80+ degrees Fahrenheit (that was the scale used btw). Don't quote me on this but I'm just basing it on when I can still flatten the chips (it's a sliding scale and around 72-74 degrees where I can't really get the chips to flatten based on how hard I'm cranking so that's usually around the temperature I remove them from the clamps).
Well there's my 10 steps I use for leaded hot stamped chips, feel free to try it, but it's at your own risk, so if anything goes wrong I am not liable.
Good luck
I hear you, but when I tried a single light crank like that the first time, my chips were basically the same as before I clamped them.
I've flattened all different types, and while some were softer than others, they all responded fairly well to light pressure. There have been instances where I have needed to flatten chips a second time, but imo, that's preferrable to trying to do it in one shot with more pressure.
Are you using wood clamps? Or the gun type?
Well I tried the tighten once and set aside to see if it would flatten and unfortunately it didn't seem to have much of an effect on the chips...I've been asked to share my method for flattening chips (which I learned from this thread).
I don't have pictures unfortunately but here's my two cents from my experience with flattening 39 cm THC chips (mostly leaded):
I use the heating pad method proposed by @Colquhoun and with the Series 700 extra long heating pad from CVS suggested by @Goldfish
I try to follow the instructions that were proposed by @juankay20 and I have amended his post to show a 21 chip spacer from @One Eyed Dollar (but to my understanding these are unavailable anymore), so luckily @Sparkynutz has made two different versions, one that I have found most effective for flattening chips with wood clamps (don't have to be Bessey but I have both a 10" and a 12").
I have not tried other clamps, which were suggested, such as the gun clamps. My opinion is that with mostly 10+ gram chips, I felt like I could turn the handles a decent amount (until I feel enough resistance) and I repeated the process periodically as the chips cooled down, without damaging or overflattening the chips.
I think it may be different with UNLEADED chips, because with the 9+ gram Copa's (partially leaded?) that I also flattened, I felt like needed much less force and they felt different when I tried to turn the handles (more fragile) so I would be more careful with unleaded chips for sure (as I have not tried flattening those).
When I used the wood clamps, I think I prefer the 12" because I think it covered all the chips/spacers better and I felt like it gave me more room to for control cranking the handles than the 10" but the 10" still works (I'm not buying more than those - but also I'm lucky that my uncle loves wood clamps and he had two more each 14" and 12") so I used those with the one heat pad and a bunch of blank ceramics (bought some blanks with multicolor edges from @BR Pro Poker and completely blank 43 mm from @Sparkynutz).
So here's my method in a nutshell (you can modify all you like):
*If you use a warm cleaning method, I would clean the chips before you flatten or else they may warp again.
1. Ideally place yourself in a cool room, if it's too warm, the chips will not cool enough and will warp again if unclamped or left on their side in a chip rack.
2. Preheat the heat pad to 140 degrees.
3. Place 20 of the chips you want to flatten inside the hot pack (I like in the center - not too near the edges) and fold the hot pad.
*If you don't have two wood clamps, you would only need to place 10 of the chips you want to flatten. You can also put the 11 ceramic blanks in the heat pad together.
**This process is different than the one described above because in my opinion, when I had placed two sets of 21 chips side by side to flatten, there was less control over each individual set and I found that they didn't flatten as much as I wanted and I had to repeat the process, sometimes more than once (I think it's because of the variance in the amount of warped chips per stack and it can be difficult to angle the clamps perfectly).
*I like that I can crank more for the set that's more warped and less for the set that's less warped.
4. Place the 22, 43 mm ceramic blanks on top of the heat pack to warm (I don't think the ceramics are that important to get to the same temperature as the chips you are trying to flatten - but I think that the cooler they are, the more heat they will suck out of the chips you are trying to flatten leaving you with a shortened window to flatten the chips overall).
*You need 11, 43 mm ceramic blanks per clamp.
5. Start a timer for 10 minutes, sometimes I lose track and it goes a little longer but generally the temperature of the chips is around 125 degrees or so when I use my thermapen or temperature gun to read it (you shouldn't need to read it if you are following the time points).
*While you do this you should have your flattening rack ready and fit it between the wood clamp(s) so that there is just enough space for it to fit with the extra overhanging blank (based on the flattening rack by @Sparkynutz) - so that it doesn't just fall over the edge of the flattening rack and make the clamp compress the flattening rack instead of the stack of chips you're trying to flatten.
I recommend practicing this while the chips aren't hot because as I said before the time window to flatten the chips shortens the cooler the chips get...
6. After 10 minutes, take the ceramic blanks off the top, open the heat pad and place them inside the hot pad to keep them warm while you stack your 21 chips (11 blanks and 10 chips) and put them in the flattening rack in alternating fashion so that the blanks are on the outside.
Then I place the 2nd stack in the other clamp the same way (they stay warm longer since they are inside the hot pad while I'm putting the 1st stack in the first clamp.
*You can repeat this process with as many clamps or multiple hot packs as needed, if you're good at multi-tasking.
7. Probably should follow specific times like @juankay20 but I just crank it periodically when a little bit of time passes and if I feel a lot of resistance I don't crank more, but if I feel it's loose I crank until I feel the resistance again.
*I like to do this while watching something else because the process is easy but time consuming..
*If you are using multiple clamps, I recommend aligning them in a way where you can easily move through them keeping track of how long each one has been in the process.
8. Once the chips feel much cooler, typically around an hour or so if you're timing it, they won't really flatten much more and that's how flat you will get it that time around (sometimes you have to go more than once). Especially if you wait too long in between periodically cranking because you got too caught up in the show you were watching or whatever...
*When I checked the temperature around this time, it was a couple degrees above the above the clamp temperature or so (I did NOT heat the clamps) - my opinion is the warmer the clamps, the longer this process goes (takes longer to get to room temperature - it will absorb the heat from the blanks/chips at a certain rate).
9. Remove the chips from the clamps and stack them and then hand pinch to see if they are as flat as you'd like, if not you will have to repeat the process unfortunately (you will find how much you can crank over time IMO).
10. When the chips are as flat as you'd like as I stated above, I would recommend storing them in a cool area (I store them in the basement and I stack them) so that they cool and set the best they can in the flattened state. I'm not sure how long to store them in that position, but I'd say at least 24 hours.
*I have found that when I leave them on their side in a rack in a warmer environment, it can warp again... so for those that live in hot states, I do not envy you...
*I haven't retested the ones I flattened by putting them back in a warm environment again because I don't enjoy flattening the chips over and over again, it can get frustrating...(like didn't I just flatten those?).
*I believe anything around 80+ degrees Fahrenheit (that was the scale used btw). Don't quote me on this but I'm just basing it on when I can still flatten the chips (it's a sliding scale and around 72-74 degrees where I can't really get the chips to flatten based on how hard I'm cranking so that's usually around the temperature I remove them from the clamps).
Well there's my 10 steps I use for leaded hot stamped chips, feel free to try it, but it's at your own risk, so if anything goes wrong I am not liable.
Good luck
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