detroitdad
Royal Flush
I gave away all my extras (medium flat rate box of shit) for hitting my 100,000th post lol. I will follow the thread and root you on.
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Flipping for noobs (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter slisk250
- Start date
I gave away all my extras (medium flat rate box of shit) for hitting my 100,000th post lol. I will follow the thread and root you on.
Forrest, I'd like to donate your Vineyards to the cause.
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Completely coincidentally, my brothers, sisters, wife, kids, grandkids, nieces, and nephews are all joining PCF today...
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detroitdad
Royal Flush
Colleen just asked me why I was laughing. Then she said never mind. Probably talking to your pokerchip girlfriends.
Personally, I have 2 thoughts around "flipping":
- When someone kindly sells you chips below market price, they are forgoing their own profit voluntarily. Don't immediately turn around and sell them and reap the profit yourself.
- Unless donating to a charitable cause, don't monetize chips that a chipper gave you for free. If you choose to unload, continue the good will and give them to another chipper at no cost.
Squinting at this as hard as I can, I really don't see what the other bidder is doing wrong. Maybe my presuppositions are different than yours:
- The person willing to pay the most for the chips should get them. This is the way things work (& work well) for all sorts of goods and services.
- The person causing you to lose the auction (by bidding up the price) is doing a service by making sure the person willing to pay more is getting the chips. (After all, if that person had been able to participate in the original auction he would've bid you up too.) Thus, any profit is fine by me.
TL;DR
Hello, all you noobs out there! I am a flipper! If I were any more of a flipper, I'd be a frickin' cetacean!
So buy things from me, already!
Hello, all you noobs out there! I am a flipper! If I were any more of a flipper, I'd be a frickin' cetacean!
So buy things from me, already!
OP
OP
slisk250
Straight Flush
nice Forrest! Eternal chip karma to go on top of your previously earned eternal chip karma. What else would OFCPs’patron saint do?
Just for this I’ll have a few goodies for you in Denver. See folks, it’s not make believe...chip karma is real!!!!
No one's really that stupid, are they?
Simple fact: Those multiple group buys -- boat chips, Big Tops, Beaches -- were done by small groups in order to remain secret in order to maximize their chances of success and minimize the chances of financial disaster, period.
Is that so hard to understand?
I must have missed that trip to the future.
Not a group buy.
I'm voting to change your user name to: NOTagroupBUY.
Also, lol this thread in every way. Do we really have people creating rules on trying to tell people how to sell their property? What the actual f...
OP
OP
slisk250
Straight Flush
I guess the real issue is lost to the doubters. This has nothing to do with rules and trying to tell people how to sell. This is about chip karma!
I see chip karma as something entirely different I guess. Besides poker, cars are the other hobby I used to spend tons of $ on.
I attended meetups for events in that community for years, hell my wife even enjoyed going to them, and met lots of people that I still communicate with 10+ years later. People bought and sold cars all the time, sometimes for great prices and sometimes overpaying by astronomical sums. Over time you might know the car with 2 or 3 different owners because the other guys got bored. Sound familiar?
The difference was there no one gave a shit on prices. No one kept a spreadsheet tracking prices or what a person spent on mods. People were just genuinely happy for each other and could appreciate the differences in the cars and their owners. A lot of it reminds me of what @krafticus other thread brought back for a lot of the old time members here. The thing is, that hasn't gone away in my car communities at all. Perhaps if people would stop giving a shit about prices and drop the white knighting price police act there wouldn't be so much anger and resentment around here.
"people were just genuinely happy for eachother"
That sounds like a sense of community to me. And I'm certain that some people overpaid for things like we all do from time to time, but I bet a lot of people in that environment would go lend a hand or some parts to someone else, rather than sell it to them for 5x cost.
That sounds like a sense of community to me. And I'm certain that some people overpaid for things like we all do from time to time, but I bet a lot of people in that environment would go lend a hand or some parts to someone else, rather than sell it to them for 5x cost.
Lend a hand sure, parts never. They sometimes cost more than a set of chips here!
I call BS on this one....
Hidden forums & neighbours included
While I love what Tommy did for the forum & the community, I can not get passed the fact there was an actual secret forum active to support the so called not a group buy. And plenty of members showed their true colors in the aftermath of the boat chips (participants & non-participants).
Only thing that matters to me is my own ethics.
I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and be an example for my kids...i do realize other people DGAF
After +10 years I invite you all to call me out on flipping or foul play...
I understand that I would own more chips/profit going the commercial approach....the good thing is that I prefer friends above chips ALWAYS !
Something I learned during the good days of CT
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I can understand that you feel disappointed that you didn't get in on a the lowest possible price. And, again, I don't have a dog in this fight since my budget wouldn't allow my participation at either the low or the high price (other than the fact I consider this a great forum. In fact, the best forum I participate in -- more thoughts on this from me in this thread).
Disappointment, yes. But I really cannot see the moral condemnation.
In this case, the secret forum brought something new into the world. If they wanted to profit from it, what's wrong with that? A world that incentivizes people to birth more chips into the world, seems better than a world where there's no such incentive for someone who likes chips.
Again (as I posted before), when people act in non-market or below-market fashion, that's praiseworthy -- and would've been in this circumstance. (Which I really don't have the background details.) But transacting in a market-level fashion, in my opinion, does not deserve moral condemnation. To the extent those transactions bring something new or different to the community, I would've thought they'd be welcome -- even if outside your budget. Ceteris paribus, a world with more options is better than one with less options. If you don't like the price or the circumstances or the whatever, don't buy.
If you have a small group working on a secret project, you need a means of communication. What does it matter if it's a private sub-forum, a private Facebook group, a shared gmail account, or any other resource? It's just a tool.
Tommy pays the freight for PCF's servers, etc. Whose business is it if he uses those resources for other interests besides PCF? Maybe he runs a huge forum for pinball machine owners, or left-handed behind-the-back knitting enthusiasts. Who cares?
As I've stated before, when I was lucky enough to acquire some Pacific Star chips, I started a private Facebook group for PS owners only, to discuss and swap chips, etc. while all the furor was raging. Maybe other PCFers have started similar discussion groups for TRKs, or to discuss buys from defunct casinos, or many other imaginable purposes.
Why, maybe you guys in Europe even have your own chip-centric organizations and resources!
Why should anyone else care or be offended?
As to "neighbours ", I have no idea what you're referring to there. But there are undoubtedly a lot of private dealings among PCFers who attend home games and meet-ups or play at specific casinos in various locales all over the world.
That's very noble. But maybe what you so scornfully describe as "true colors" are those individuals' personal ethics.
chip karma is real , but I have to admit I don't seem to connect with a lot of people, I think it's just one of my flaws
You know very well that the stars buy was not a small group (and certainly not comparable to other paulson heists)
A secret sub-forum has nothing to do with resources or a tool....it created two groups on PCF (have & have not)
Not to forget those GB-ers that were selling chips for premium prices knowing a few 100K mint paulson chips would hit the market (and buyers were often not aware)
The selection criteria for the star GB's made sure that neighbours from GB/NAGB participants were able to buy & flip chips while longtime members like Pasi (Puggy) or Paul (Paz) with INSANE track records were not invited (and many more awsome members).
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RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
There is a wide spectrum of which buying/selling practices are considered acceptable by each person. Everyone is different. Personally, I am baffled that anyone would take issue with someone finding chips on a platform like facebook marketplace, craigslist, or eBay, and reselling them here at market prices. These marketplaces are constantly scoured by people looking to make a profit. There are literally hundreds of chippers here constantly scanning these resources looking for chips, either to profit from or to find that lucky score for their own personal collection. Some people have even written scripts and set up alerts to find what they're after. Hunting chips outside of this community is a lot of work, and if you think anyone buying chips from external resources has an obligation to resell them to you at their cost, then YOU are the problem, not them. You want the chips? Then go find them yourself. Too slow Joe? Tough shit. Someone beat you to them. Be faster next time or stop trying/complaining.
That's not to say you can't earn karma credits with people though. It's always a kind gesture to sell someone chips below market prices or to do giveaways or charity auctions. There's plenty of that here as well and you can certainly land yourself on other people's goodwill/PM deals short lists by doing so.
One thing people seem to overlook is the fact that for many of us, particularly for those of us who are indecisive and extremely picky about their chips, we often buy chips just because we think they look cool and might fit into a set or some yet to be determined project in the future. Later, that project begins to take shape and goes in a different direction and some chips are no longer needed, so we resell the ones we don't need. Then, maybe a year later, or sometimes even just a few months later, the next shiny thing comes along and we just have to have that next new set. Well, time to let go of the last project because well, this one is better and I don't need both! Then, another rack comes along and we think, "ooh, those look nice!... BUY!" The cycle repeats. Many of us just keep buying and reselling chips in hopes of falling in love with a few sets. This is especially true if you enjoy putting together a nice mixed set or two. The problem with that approach is that if you never pay attention to what the market prices are for your chips, and you always resell them for exactly what you paid or less, you're guaranteed to get fleeced because the market doesn't give two shits about what you paid for your chips. The market is not your friend. It's also not your enemy. It is what it is and it dictates what all of us pay whether we wish to control it or not. It is completely futile to think you can or should be able to control it. The market will set the prices for whatever that next set is that you just have to have, and if you resell your chips for less than market, you'll eventually lose a lot of money. Money that your family probably needs more so than your "friends", most of whom you've never even met. If we all just respected each other's property for whatever it's current value happens to be (like most hobbies do) then there'd be a hell of a lot less fighting around here.
That said, don't be a dick. If someone posts a great chip deal in the classifieds here because they want to pay it forward to someone for whatever reason, don't buy them with the sole intention of just turning around and reselling them to someone else who needs them just because you can. That's a shitty thing to do. Don't do the shitty things. But if you buy them for yourself to enjoy or for some chipping project and you later abandon said project, I have no issues with you selling them for whatever they're worth in the future, regardless of whether it's 6 months from now or 6 years from now (just don't do it 6 days from now). External resources/marketplaces are a different story though, and are completely fair game IMO. Even if you're reselling those chip finds 6 minutes from now.
That's not to say you can't earn karma credits with people though. It's always a kind gesture to sell someone chips below market prices or to do giveaways or charity auctions. There's plenty of that here as well and you can certainly land yourself on other people's goodwill/PM deals short lists by doing so.
One thing people seem to overlook is the fact that for many of us, particularly for those of us who are indecisive and extremely picky about their chips, we often buy chips just because we think they look cool and might fit into a set or some yet to be determined project in the future. Later, that project begins to take shape and goes in a different direction and some chips are no longer needed, so we resell the ones we don't need. Then, maybe a year later, or sometimes even just a few months later, the next shiny thing comes along and we just have to have that next new set. Well, time to let go of the last project because well, this one is better and I don't need both! Then, another rack comes along and we think, "ooh, those look nice!... BUY!" The cycle repeats. Many of us just keep buying and reselling chips in hopes of falling in love with a few sets. This is especially true if you enjoy putting together a nice mixed set or two. The problem with that approach is that if you never pay attention to what the market prices are for your chips, and you always resell them for exactly what you paid or less, you're guaranteed to get fleeced because the market doesn't give two shits about what you paid for your chips. The market is not your friend. It's also not your enemy. It is what it is and it dictates what all of us pay whether we wish to control it or not. It is completely futile to think you can or should be able to control it. The market will set the prices for whatever that next set is that you just have to have, and if you resell your chips for less than market, you'll eventually lose a lot of money. Money that your family probably needs more so than your "friends", most of whom you've never even met. If we all just respected each other's property for whatever it's current value happens to be (like most hobbies do) then there'd be a hell of a lot less fighting around here.
That said, don't be a dick. If someone posts a great chip deal in the classifieds here because they want to pay it forward to someone for whatever reason, don't buy them with the sole intention of just turning around and reselling them to someone else who needs them just because you can. That's a shitty thing to do. Don't do the shitty things. But if you buy them for yourself to enjoy or for some chipping project and you later abandon said project, I have no issues with you selling them for whatever they're worth in the future, regardless of whether it's 6 months from now or 6 years from now (just don't do it 6 days from now). External resources/marketplaces are a different story though, and are completely fair game IMO. Even if you're reselling those chip finds 6 minutes from now.
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Jeebus, are you really my first wife posting under an assumed name?
This sounds remarkably like a letter I received from her divorce attorney about ten years ago...
Mac128k
Flush
I’m sorry you lost the Lakeshores in the divorceJeebus, are you really my first wife posting under an assumed name?
This sounds remarkably like a letter I received from her divorce attorney about ten years ago...
Travis, the passive/aggressive, good coop/bad cop, and talking from both sided of the mouth, is super tilting, but probably not surprising from someone who always tries to get max values for his sales. Mike is talking about Chip Karma...let's not mix the issues.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Like I said. There is a wide spectrum of which buying/selling practices are considered acceptable by each person. Everyone is different. I respect that your views are different from mine. To each their own.
horseshoez
4 of a Kind
Posts like this sometimes put me back into a debate of whether or not I would want to own a set from the boat chips. I just like knowing that the stuff I own doesn't come with dirt on it, figuratively speaking.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
OP
OP
slisk250
Straight Flush
Again, you and some others are missing the point entirely. Read the OP, it states this was an answer to a noob question, what is flipping? Everyone has their own definition. I also state that people are free to do what they want...but chip karma is very very real. Here is an example for you.
Someone out there found a rack of IBP mint 5s. They could have easily auctioned them for double what I ended up paying. I can't remember the past sales (at least 3 years ago) I've had with this guy and we have never met either. He also negotiated a better price for me than what was first offered (eternal chip karma). Maximizing your chip karma is a measure of how you treat people here in every way. Chip karma is very very real.
If I changed the title to Chip Karma for noobs, perhaps the non believers wouldn't be so fired up?
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Loving the double standards here. So if someone buys some chips off eBay or Craigslist and resells them for a profit they're an evil "flipper", but if you're in the good old boys club and you got your chips for pennies on the dollar, it's totally fair game to flip your chips for a profit now because some arbitrary amount of time has passed? Really? And buying chips from the cage for $1 ea and reselling for $3 isn't flipping? Lolol. Come on. How is that any different from someone buying chips from a 3rd party vendor for $1 ea and later reselling at market prices?
BarrieJ3
Royal Flush
- Joined
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*we create thread, supposedly for new members, “noobs”*
*we immediately start arguing and discussing multiple topics that a) a noob has no idea what the history or relevance is and b) are really the main points of contention here*
*we bump incessantly to capture the attention of as many noobs as possible, ensuring that they don’t just let them see the generous information and contests here, but indoctrinate them into the full experience*
*we immediately start arguing and discussing multiple topics that a) a noob has no idea what the history or relevance is and b) are really the main points of contention here*
*we bump incessantly to capture the attention of as many noobs as possible, ensuring that they don’t just let them see the generous information and contests here, but indoctrinate them into the full experience*
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OP
OP
slisk250
Straight Flush
I responded to these questions earlier Travis if you care to read them.
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