flopped a small boat in 2/2 PLO (1 Viewer)

[bentax1978]

Had a chance to play a short session (4 hours) of live 2/2 PLO at MD Live on Saturday night. It was a must move game with three tables such that the main game is always full and gets players from table 2, which in turn remains full by taking players from table 3. I only mention this because until you get to the last table, you aren't playing with the same players for very long. This hand happened about an hour after I moved to the main table, but the villain was only there about an orbit. So not too much to go on in terms of describing him or his play.

So it's 2/2 PLO, but it's basically 2/2/5 PLO because almost everyone is straddling.

8 handed, UTG straddles for $5, two MP callers.

Hero looks down at A955, double suited and calls the $5 on the button.

One blind folds, the other calls.

So 5 players to the flop, $25 in the pot ($27 less $2 rake).

Flop is 8-8-5 (rainbow)

Checks all around to Hero (button).

I assume the next step is straight forward, but I'll still pose the initial question, what should Hero do?


edit: forgot to include stack sizes. Hero started the hand with about $1200, UTG had about $700, the rest of the stacks were in the $300-400 range.

 

[gopherblue]

Order a crown and coke from the waitress.

 

[bentax1978]

Order a crown and coke from the waitress.

What if Hero doesn't drink? Just a coke?

 

[jbutler]

What if Hero doesn't drink? Just a coke?

Just a crown.

But more to the point: what has the action been like at the table? Multi-way calls of pot-sized bets on the flop? I'd pot it if the table isn't insanely call happy. If they are, I might just check it.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Stand up from the table, bringing the two 5s with you, and throw them in the nearest trash receptacle before returning to the table and folding the A and 9.

 

[bentax1978]

Just a crown.

Hmm, I wore a couple crowns last week, but not that one.

 

[Forty4]

What if Hero doesn't drink? Just a coke?

Sweet tea

I don't see how you don't pot here.

 

[bentax1978]

Just a crown.
But more to the point: what has the action been like at the table? Multi-way calls of pot-sized bets on the flop? I'd pot it if the table isn't insanely call happy. If they are, I might just check it.

The table was call happy, but not insanely call happy. It's hard for me to say, this was only the third time I had played casino PLO in 6 years.

 

[bentax1978]

Stand up from the table, bringing the two 5s with you, and throw them in the nearest trash receptacle before returning to the table and folding the A and 9.

Then how will I be able to hit quads on the turn?

Sweet tea

I don't see how you don't pot here.

Funny you say that, I managed to find unsweetened tea during my whole 2 weeks away below the Mason-Dixon line. On the drive back, we stopped in NC at a Bojangles and I ordered a tea. I didn't specify unsweetened because it looks like it was self-serve. Turns out that was just for refills, and I'll let you guess what the default option is if you only say "tea" in the south.

 

[bergs]

Had a chance to play a short session (4 hours) of live 2/2 PLO at MD Live on Saturday night. It was a must move game with three tables such that the main game is always full and gets players from table 2, which in turn remains full by taking players from table 3. I only mention this because until you get to the last table, you aren't playing with the same players for very long. This hand happened about an hour after I moved to the main table, but the villain was only there about an orbit. So not too much to go on in terms of describing him or his play.

So it's 2/2 PLO, but it's basically 2/2/5 PLO because almost everyone is straddling.

8 handed, UTG straddles for $5, two MP callers.

Hero looks down at A955, double suited and calls the $5 on the button.

One blind folds, the other calls.

So 5 players to the flop, $25 in the pot ($27 less $2 rake).

Pot, though you're going to really hate almost any turn card if someone else pots turn.

Flop is 8-8-5 (rainbow)

Checks all around to Hero (button).

I assume the next step is straight forward, but I'll still pose the initial question, what should Hero do?

 

[bentax1978]

To move this along, Hero bets $25. BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 and MP2 fold.

Two players to the turn.

Turn is a 7, making the board 8-8-5-7 (the 7 put two of one suit out there)

UTG checks, action on Hero. Pot has around $75 in it. What now?

 

[jbutler]

To move this along, Hero bets $25. BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 and MP2 fold.

Two players to the turn.

Turn is a 7, making the board 8-8-5-7 (the 7 put two of one suit out there)

UTG checks, action on Hero. Pot has around $75 in it. What now?

Bet $45.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I like a $50 bet on the turn.

 

[bentax1978]

I edited the OP to include stack sizes as they may become relevant. Hero had about $1200 to start the hand, UTG had a little over $700.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Pot the turn. PLO isn't a game with much slowplaying, so his check smells like he's probably still drawing to an 8 with overs.

Plus, a bigger bet now makes it less enticing for UTG to make any kind of move on us, on this round or the river. If he does check-raise a PSB or call and then bet the river, we can be all but certain he's got the goods. We might not be so certain if we only bet $45 or $50, which looks significantly weaker than the full $75.

If UTG only calls, check back overcard rivers and maybe try to squeeze a bit of value on undercard rivers.

 

[Forty4]

I've exhausted my PLO knowledge so I have not clue what to do here. I probably would have just left after they made me rack up $1,200 and call it a pretty good few hours.

 

[bentax1978]

I've exhausted my PLO knowledge so I have not clue what to do here. I probably would have just left after they made me rack up $1,200 and call it a pretty good few hours.

As you can see here, I thought about it.

Pot the turn. PLO isn't a game with much slowplaying, so his check smells like he's probably still drawing to an 8 with overs.

Plus, a bigger bet now makes it less enticing for UTG to make any kind of move on us, on this round or the river. If he does check-raise a PSB or call and then bet the river, we can be all but certain he's got the goods. We might not be so certain if we only bet $45 or $50, which looks significantly weaker than the full $75.

If UTG only calls, check back overcard rivers and maybe try to squeeze a bit of value on undercard rivers.

Well, I did go ahead and (effectively) pot it. I think I actually bet $70 as there was around $72 in the pot with the rake removed.

UTG doesn't take very long to raise it to $300 total ($230 on top).

Too late to throw those 5's in the trash and fold my A9?

 

[gopherblue]

I'm really hoping this hand ends with you rivering quads, because right now you've got a very weak boat.

I will be available later to make other very obvious observations.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Too late to throw those 5's in the trash and fold my A9?

It's never too late to throw a small pair in the trash in PLO.

Insta-fold, laugh a little like you were just taking a swing at the pot, don't tell anyone you folded a boat.

 

[bentax1978]

I'm really hoping this hand ends with you rivering quads, because right now you've got a very weak boat.

I will be available later to make other very obvious observations.

It's never too late to throw a small pair in the trash in PLO.

Insta-fold, laugh a little like you were just taking a swing at the pot, don't tell anyone you folded a boat.

I didn't stick around to find out if I would have hit quads.. Not quite an insta-fold, but I pretty much knew when he check raised me that I was likely in a lot of trouble. For a brief moment I considered if there was any chance he'd do that with something like a turned straight and flush draw, but I came to the conclusion that was somewhat unlikely.

I guess I am curious if short of folding on the button preflop, which I don't think would be the right advice even with a mediocre hand like A955 double suited, should I have played it differently and been able to get away from the hand losing less? I guess I realize now is that even thought the flopped seemed to hit me, no matter what card comes on the turn (short of a 5), my hand is only going to get worse on the turn and river. It also seems like a hand I am either going to win a little or lose a lot.

Anyway, I have one more hand I want to post from that session, which I will later this evening. That's a slightly more interesting hand (I think).

 

[Adam Crowley]

I would have bet less on the turn to make it less obvious I am only playing my stronger hands. But I bluff a little more regularly in PLO so it helps when I can table K8 or 88 in this spot with a smaller bet around $55. Nothing wrong with betting larger I don't think, I just like to keep my perceived range wider all the time in PLO

 

[Rhodeman77]

Obviously right fold. That is why I like a smaller turn bet or to just check behind, cheaper to get away from when potted back. Going full pot lets him know we are pretty strong and may be able to pay him off.

You were probably good on the flop but I never like to see the connector of the pair board come off. 7,8,9, x is well in the range.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Nothing wrong with playing this hand for a limp on the button.

Betting the flop is fine, too. If we get it heads-up against a predictable opponent with an 8 and overs, it's very similar to playing something like TPTK against a flush draw in hold'em. If he has fewer than 3 overs, it's an even better spot.

The 7 is a pretty terrible card, since connected cards are a very likely holding in PLO. Thankfully, it's an obvious terrible card and an easy fold on the turn.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Chicken Nit weighing in to say fold this crap preflop. You flopped as good as you could ever hope, and it still sucks.

My recommendation for the flop is to go back in time and fold pre.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Nothing wrong with playing this hand for a limp on the button.

Betting the flop is fine, too. If we get it heads-up against a predictable opponent with an 8 and overs, it's very similar to playing something like TPTK against a flush draw in hold'em. If he has fewer than 3 overs, it's an even better spot.

The 7 is a pretty terrible card, since connected cards are a very likely holding in PLO. Thankfully, it's an obvious terrible card and an easy fold on the turn.

What is a good turn card? A card higher than 8 that hits hands with an 8 and makes a bigger boat? I just don't see how this hand was ever a good idea.

 

[bentax1978]

Chicken Nit weighing in to say fold this crap preflop. You flopped as good as you could ever hope, and it still sucks.

My recommendation for the flop is to go back in time and fold pre.

I could still call and just play for the flush on a non-paired board or quads

 

[bentax1978]

What is a good turn card? A card higher than 8 that hits hands with an 8 and makes a bigger boat? I just don't see how this hand was ever a good idea.

That's what I started thinking about after the hand. I got a pretty decent flop for my hand and it still kind of sucked. Either I take it down and win $20 or I likely lose a lot more.

 

[Adam Crowley]

You hand is actually really good to play from the BTN in PLO. You can flop pretty good and you have position (far more profitable than having a decent hand). In position I would cbet this flop a lot anyway having flopped a boat is actually pretty good against villains that realise you often bet with air on paired boards. Folding turn to c/r is fine. You can check back turn and evaluate river as well.

 

[Chicken Rob]

You hand is actually really good to play from the BTN in PLO. You can flop pretty good and you have position (far more profitable than having a decent hand). In position I would cbet this flop a lot anyway having flopped a boat is actually pretty good against villains that realise you often bet with air on paired boards. Folding turn to c/r is fine. You can check back turn and evaluate river as well.

I don't know where you play Omaha, but my experience is it takes the best hand to win a pot at those stakes. I just don't see that hand flopping well enough often enough to make it worthwhile. Position is not gonna save you when most hands make it to showdown.

 

[Jimulacrum]

What is a good turn card? A card higher than 8 that hits hands with an 8 and makes a bigger boat? I just don't see how this hand was ever a good idea.

There aren't too many truly good cards, but any card that isn't sequential with the 8 would be better than a 7 or 9. A king wouldn't be too bad, as overdcards go, and of course a 2, 3, or 4 would be great.