Flopped K high flush... Who's getting it in? (1 Viewer)

[Poker Zombie]

I'm interested in knowing if people would feel differently if this was the scenario:

Hero is in the BB with and UTG min-raises instead of straddling. The same players call including the button and SB folds. Would this not be a hand you would protect your BB with getting the odds you're looking at? I know one crucial factor is that in this scenario Hero is closing the action, but would it really play out that much differently?

K9 is marginal. If you're going to play marginal, you need to isolate. Take it to 2 players, knowing you're well behind. With a crafty LAG ahead of you, you know he's going to bet out on you, so you're damned if you flat (too many opponents can beat K9), you're damned if you raise pre (because you are committing chips pre and post). Only +EV pre move is fold K9 OOP.

 

[lnlver]

K9 suited? Are you Sirius?

 

[Strike1st]

I would've shoved all in too. K 9 is actually my favorite hand especially when its suited. You win some you lose some but I think with where you were you made the right call on that one.

I'm a sucker for K9 as well.

 

[MoscowRadio]

K9s, out of position, is not a hand I am eager to play. I see flatting or raising as spew unless Hero is seriously better than the table or the table is going to fold close to 100% of the time. Defending your blind can easily become the gateway to serious losses. Save your speculative chips for position plays.

And for what it is worth, most times I'd fold K9s on the button too.

DrStrange

Even unopened on the button? I'm not trying in any way to antagonize anyone who advocates a fold; I'm just genuinely curious.

 

[DrStrange]

In that case we are playing three handed - Button, SB and BB. There K9s is a solid hand and worthy of a raise.

DrStrange

 

[MoscowRadio]

So, multi-way, K9s is more of an -EV hand even in position?

 

[Ben]

Also need to sit at a table where someone plays out of position.

You have... many times.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You have... many times.

 

[Mr Tree]

When someone raises 80% of hands preflop they're probably not getting a top ten hand EVERY time [emoji13]

 

[Anthony Martino]

playing 1/2 live at my local casino this week.

Sitting on $400 in the SB, crafty Lag is on the button with $180. Button is known for bluffing/agression/and applying pressure.

Other players aren't a factor (spoiler), and range from $100-$250.

Dealt . UTG straddles.

Few callers, Button limps, I call because My read is BB and UTG aren't in love with their cards... I think I can see a flop cheap. And yup, BB folds, UTG checks his option.

Pot is around $24

Flop comes

What is our play here?

FYI, my observation is that the button almost always makes a pot sized bet when limped to (on the button).

While K9 is junky, its suitedness and implied odds with other players who could make lesser flushes make this ok to call imho given your position, provided the straddler is generally inclined to check their option (there are tons of action players who straddle, get a bunch of callers and then raise to pickup dead money, if this guy is one of those, clear fold on your part)

Your play here can vary on the flop. With so many players in the pot there's a good shot someone will take a stab at it (however I don't generally advocate a checkraise, because you're giving away too much information. A check-call is going to make your opponents usually put you on a weaker hand/draw, which can net you more chips on later streets). Of course, there's the risk that players will fear the flush flop and it'll get checked through.

In some instances I'm also inclined to lead-out. Many opponents apply their own playstyles to EVERYONE they play against. As an example, this past Saturday I was playing a private 1/1 cash game and I had AJ in a multi-way pot and the flop was JJ6 rainbow. Checked to me in MP and I fired right out and one guy called and when we were headsup and he checked and I bet he started talking out loud "he can't have a Jack, he's got something else. If he had a Jack he wouldn't bet!" (when I had been playing a TAG game all evening, he just wasn't paying attention and was applying his own approach to the hand with how I must have to play it as well)

So, there are plenty of players who won't put you on the made 2nd nuts here if you lead right out. I'm fine with a check-call or a lead-out. If leading out I prefer something like $12-15 here, enough to keep people in chasing lesser flushes or hanging around with top pair hoping another heart doesn't turn.

I lead out for $20. Everyone folds to the Button, who Raises to $65. He has a tad over $100 behind.

Whats next?

I get it in here. Yeah, in this instance it turns out this player was in there with the suited Ace and it sucks for you. But I'm sure he's doing the same thing holding or

Given stack sizes and your opponents play style, a fold is awful even though it turns out we lose in this instance. A great majority of the time you're ahead of this villain, get that stack in there. Just a cooler.

 

[Ronoh]

People fold K9s preflop?

 

[Poker Zombie]

God, now I know why I got cleaned out at S@P II. S@P III Zombie No Fold.

 

[manamongkids]

LOL at this thread and the people saying K9 soooted is trash for a straddle sized call ($4-5). Its a cooler, doesnt matter how you played it

 

[Anthony Martino]

LOL at this thread and the people saying K9 soooted is trash for a straddle sized call ($4-5). Its a cooler, doesnt matter how you played it

While I agree with you, I can see an argument to fold if the below conditions exist:

1. The player has trouble overplaying hands like this when they hit top pair with such a weak kicker and pay off players who outkick them
2. There are a lot of other players left to act after Hero calls
3. Any players left to act after Hero are the type to raise with ATC in an attempt to narrow the field with some dead money in the pot

But based on the OP's description and position, I think the call pre is fine.

 

[guinness]

LOL at this thread and the people saying K9 soooted is trash for a straddle sized call ($4-5). Its a cooler, doesnt matter how you played it

There's more leveling going on ITT than a high rise construction site.

 

[Ronoh]

There's more leveling going on ITT than a high rise construction site.

More than you'll find at most peoples local 1/2 casino game as well.

 

[Socraticd]

Time for a villain read -

Some guys can't fold. If so, jam.

Some guys can raise/fold. If so, flat planning to let villain bet the turn.

DrStrange

grunching a bit, and this is really my thought. if he's a villain who is capable of finding a fold to a 3bet shove, it's probably a bad play as we're just going to fold out a huge number of hands we really want calling

 

[Socraticd]

The only way I'm getting away from this hand is if all of the following 3 conditions are met:

1) Someone walks by the poker table with a crate full of fresh hot Reuben sandwiches and says "well, might as well throw these out"
2) I'm physically propelled via cannon from my chair to where the crate of Reubens are going
3) While in the air, I'm successfully shot down and killed by an RPG being wielded by a 78 year old insurgent from a stud game

</thread>

 

[courage]

This thread makes me crave a Reuben sandwich.

Consensus so far is everyone shovels the $ in. If you find someone who folds, please PM me. I want to invite them to my game...

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

playing 1/2 live at my local casino this week.

Sitting on $400 in the SB, crafty Lag is on the button with $180. Button is known for bluffing/agression/and applying pressure.

Other players aren't a factor (spoiler), and range from $100-$250.

Dealt . UTG straddles.

Few callers, Button limps, I call because My read is BB and UTG aren't in love with their cards... I think I can see a flop cheap. And yup, BB folds, UTG checks his option.

Pot is around $24

Flop comes

What is our play here?

FYI, my observation is that the button almost always makes a pot sized bet when limped to (on the button).

I haven't gone past first post yet and here's my initial reaction....

If our read of BTN is right there aren't many Axhh he ISN'T raising OTB in this spot. If hes like a typical LAG in my 1/2 game, he's raising A7+s, maybe lower, OTB over limpers. I'm not too worried about BTN having the nuts.

I like a C/R to get a bet off LAG. Also don't hate a 1/2 potish donk.

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

Welp.... looks like he had one of the few combos I thought we had to be worrried about. Don't think there's any hetting away from this given his BTN stack size.

That being said, put me down as folding this pre. If EVERYONE already in the hand was 200+BB deep, sure. But they weren't. We don't have the implied odds, given Vs stacks, to be playing K9s OOP, imo.

 

[BGinGA]

God, now I know why I got cleaned out at S@P II. S@P III Zombie No Fold.

Duly noted. :

 

[Psypher1000]

The only way I'm getting away from this hand is if all of the following 3 conditions are met:

1) Someone walks by the poker table with a crate full of fresh hot Reuben sandwiches and says "well, might as well throw these out"
2) I'm physically propelled via cannon from my chair to where the crate of Reubens are going
3) While in the air, I'm successfully shot down and killed by an RPG being wielded by a 78 year old insurgent from a stud game

So, in other words, most of the time.