How do you get your donkey buddies to stop being donkeys? (2 Viewers)

Beakertwang

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Maybe it's the low stakes, as we usually set our max lost at $20. Maybe they think of it as pure gambling. Several of them even state that they could easily spend $20 doing less fun things that are much worse for them, and they just like the company. There are three guys who show up off and on who can really play, but for the most part, my 21YO son and I clean up, and the rest are just there to fill seats and pay me for the veggies and hummus I brought.

As much as I appreciate taking their cash, I'd enjoy losing a good game of poker more. Do you have poker buddies for whom you've given up hope that they will ever learn to play?
 
I wouldnt try and teach at the table. People can learn from experience or use google...

All I can say is you may want to invite some new people to help mix things up.

Personally I prefer winning...my friends are all too good...
 
Thought for sure this was referring to the other chip place and the people who reside there.
What's this "other chip place" you speak of? I'm new around here.
 
I wouldnt try and teach at the table. People can learn from experience or use google...

All I can say is you may want to invite some new people to help mix things up.

Personally I prefer winning...my friends are all too good...

Is it ok to yell "STOP IT WITH THE BLUFF CALLS ALREADY!"?
 
Some people just arnt that interested in improving their poker game. They don't spend much time playing, and spend no time trying to get better. And yes micro stakes games tends to lead to alot more bad play. If the money is not significant most people don't care if they win or lose. I think the best way to get better players is to invite better players, and maybe raise stakes. I don't think the casual player who plays for 20 dollars every once in a while is ever really going to improve that much.
 
Exactly what others have said. Until you play for enough money that it means something to them they won’t take it seriously. The problem with raising the stakes is that once the bad players start losing enough money they will stop coming. For them it is a night of fun for $20, the poker is secondary.

There are multiple threads on this exact subject, pretty much all of them come to the same conclusion; find new players that want to play for more money and take the game seriously.

Pretty much everyone of us has gone through it or is going through it.

I’m kind of going through it yet again as I try to move up in stakes.
 
Exactly what others have said. Until you play for enough money that it means something to them they won’t take it seriously. The problem with raising the stakes is that once the bad players start losing enough money they will stop coming. For them it is a night of fun for $20, the poker is secondary.

There are multiple threads on this exact subject, pretty much all of them come to the same conclusion; find new players that want to play for more money and take the game seriously.

Pretty much everyone of us has gone through it or is going through it.

I’m kind of going through it yet again as I try to move up in stakes.
+1 this ^^^^. Losing $20 in a night is pretty close to playing free poker online. Nothing to lose. Bump it up by $20 each time you play until you notice most of your players taking it seriously. Or, you can run a $20 tournament with a $5 bounty. Once they make a donkey move and get busted out, they get to sit on the rail with the rest of the hondos. Good luck!
 
It's the veggies and hummus. For better play, get a hot dog roller.

If you build it, they will come.

I don't even think anyone else eats any of my veggies and hummus. I just bring that, because everyone else brings taco dip, cookies, pringles, etc. and that stuff wreaks havoc on my digestive tract. :)
 
Agree with all the above but will add one point. There ARE players out there who will play these kinds of stakes AND try to play well. $20 is the same buy in we use (with rebuys) and I now have a fair number of guys who really do try to play well regardless of the low stakes.Yes we still have a couple of real donkeys (and one of them actually thinks he's really good.....hell maybe he is since he wins some....lol) but most of the table now is decent poker.
 
Raising your stakes, even slowly, runs the risk of losing a lot of your players who are just looking for a good time. If you do it unilaterally, you may not have a game left.

I suggest starting a second game on a different night (or week or month depending how frequently your current tournament is played) and play for higher stakes. I’m sure many of your current players will migrate over to that game, too. Then, some will improve and others will either stop playing in the bigger game or lose more money to you.

Eventually, depending on how things go, you can make adjustments to one or both games.
 
One of the first questions I would ask is, "would I rather not play poker at all, if I can't play with better players?"

It might be that Hero's version of fun is not the same as many of the other players at the table. It could be this is a deal breaking incompatibility.

In my experience, most players are capable of minor improvements in their games over modest time periods. Given years and years of practice, they get to be better players. But rarely are the improvements major or sudden - just a subtle shading towards better play.

Making major changes in the structure of the game seems more likely to damage the game than it is to spur improvement in the players' poker skills.

My bottom line recommendation follows several earlier posters - go find a new game / start your own new game with different players. If you can't enjoy the current game with the weaker villains, then stop playing in it.

DrStrange
 
Exactly what others have said. Until you play for enough money that it means something to them they won’t take it seriously. The problem with raising the stakes is that once the bad players start losing enough money they will stop coming. For them it is a night of fun for $20, the poker is secondary.

There are multiple threads on this exact subject, pretty much all of them come to the same conclusion; find new players that want to play for more money and take the game seriously.

Pretty much everyone of us has gone through it or is going through it.

I’m kind of going through it yet again as I try to move up in stakes.
Maybe I should have titled the thread, "I like poker, but I like my friends more."
 
Maybe I should have titled the thread, "I like poker, but I like my friends more."

In that case there isn’t much you can do. Maybe try raising the amount you play for slowly and hope that the money makes them want to improve their games. But you still risk losing players. If being with your friends is the most important part of the night for you as well then enjoy them and the extra money they give you each game.

In the meantime maybe look for another game to play in on occasion to satisfy your desire to play in a more competitive game.
 
I've gone through something similar. The $15 weekly tourney group that I cut my teeth on years ago is still around, and I still occasionally play with them.

Originally (in 2003), the group played for $10. After many MANY unsuccessful attempts to raise the stakes, we finally went to $15 a couple of years ago. It was a compromise: half the group wanted to stay at $10, half wanted to go to $20 or 25. I honestly believe that had we gone to $20, we would have lost a big chunk of the group.

Long story short, I agree with DrStrange and others. You're more likely to have success building a new game than transforming the existing one. That's what I did: I've built a cash game circle from players in that group and others, and I host cash games that are higher stakes and, IMO, more fun.
 
My $20 group never wanted to get better. You could try to discuss strategy, but they simply did not care.

Then I invited @Ben. His presence has escalated the play of a number of the players in the group (myself included). Yes, we lost a couple of players because "Things were getting too serious", but the bulk of the group has stayed in tact. Some still play just for the fun of the evening, but more play and improve buy subtle shades like @DrStrange pointed out.

Sometimes it's unrealistic to start another game, but through subtle changes in personnel you can start changing the culture.
 
Part of the issue I have is that for half the year I live where there are just no games or at least very few. And there are no casinos to go to so you can get the better play fix (and I have played numerous times in casinos where the play is pretty bad too!!). So I just host the game. Try and play as best I can and have fun but recognize it is what it is. And in the end that beats not playing at all!
 
One of the first questions I would ask is, "would I rather not play poker at all, if I can't play with better players?"

It might be that Hero's version of fun is not the same as many of the other players at the table. It could be this is a deal breaking incompatibility.

In my experience, most players are capable of minor improvements in their games over modest time periods. Given years and years of practice, they get to be better players. But rarely are the improvements major or sudden - just a subtle shading towards better play.

Making major changes in the structure of the game seems more likely to damage the game than it is to spur improvement in the players' poker skills.

My bottom line recommendation follows several earlier posters - go find a new game / start your own new game with different players. If you can't enjoy the current game with the weaker villains, then stop playing in it.

DrStrange


Totally Agree. I also know sometimes it is hard to find games.
 
There are three guys who show up off and on who can really play, but for the most part, my 21YO son and I clean up, and the rest are just there to fill seats and pay me for the veggies and hummus I brought.

As much as I appreciate taking their cash, I'd enjoy losing a good game of poker more. Do you have poker buddies for whom you've given up hope that they will ever learn to play?

Did you talk to your son before posting this thread?
 
We used to play $15 tourney style. It was a rodeo and all the serious players came once and never again. I had a hard time with the quality of the game and the constant education to keep the game moving. There are lots of serious players in my small community with multiple WSOP cashes every year, so I knew there were competitive games to be had. We slowly raised the buy-in to $30 which shifted the game substantially. If I ran a $100 buy-in or a WSOP qualifier league, the room would get very quiet.

Its a balance between fun, chips, friends, and poker. The money dictates it all.

Cash games are a different breed as well. I try to strike a happy medium so that people are happy to be there but we are also playing poker. If it becomes too serious, I feel like I'm running a damned casino. No thanks!
 
I'm not sure what you mean.

I played in a really soft .50/$1 NLHE weekly home game a few years ago in which I had an hourly win rate of $40. I invited a friend with the idea that we could both do well, but he had a conscious. Whenever someone moaned or complained after losing a hand to him, he would turn into Howard Cosell by giving a play by play of his thought process, replete with strategy considerations. Needless to say, the dynamics of the game changed considerably after a few of these friendly sessions. My win rate dropped to $18 an hour.

I was finding humor in your earlier post about your desire to make the game more competitive for you and your son. If you want to educate the fish, use the above method. It works. However, you may want to consult your son first.
 
I see what you are saying, but at the same time, I thoroughly enjoy fish at the table, and I'm not talking about dinner.
 
I played in a really soft .50/$1 NLHE weekly home game a few years ago in which I had an hourly win rate of $40. I invited a friend with the idea that we could both do well, but he had a conscious. Whenever someone moaned or complained after losing a hand to him, he would turn into Howard Cosell by giving a play by play of his thought process, replete with strategy considerations. Needless to say, the dynamics of the game changed considerably after a few of these friendly sessions. My win rate dropped to $18 an hour.

I was finding humor in your earlier post about your desire to make the game more competitive for you and your son. If you want to educate the fish, use the above method. It works. However, you may want to consult your son first.

Gotcha. We're both in agreement on this one.
 
I have given it up with my buddies. I just enjoy the game and the money. And when they complain that I win too much, I tell them to take the game more serious
 
Ultimately I think it comes down to this - do you want to play a higher skilled game, or play with your buddies? You can’t have both.

I host regularly and do both a cash game and a tournament in the same night. The tournament is $50 and the cash game is $1/$2. There are guys who come for the tournament but won’t play cash. They come for the fun - shoot the shit, drink some beers and then go home. Nothing wrong with that. I won’t increase by tournament buy-in because I enjoy playing with these guys and they won’t come for more money. I am okay with that!
 

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