Cash Game Ideal 1,000-chip breakdown for underground 1/2 & 2/5 NLHE and PLO game (2 Viewers)

[dmoney]

@philhut agree with most of your points and line of thinking. (Un)fortunately it’s not my final call, I’m just trying to assist the host. I’m pushing gently towards some other improvements (more chips, generally) but my primary interest is to keep the game running well, and the host happy.

 

[doublebooyah85]

@philhut think I’m realizing now why casinos uses so many chips. Disguises rake.

 

[doublebooyah85]

The host of a local game I have played in is interested in upgrading his chips - he currently uses slugged Monte Carlos. He's comfortable spending ~$500 for ~1,000 chips, and wants to be able to spread a single table of 1/2 or 2/5 NLHE, or 1/2 PLO with $5 bring in - max buy ins are $300 and $1,000, respectively. The game is raked and players usually tip $1-$5 after winning a pot, so there is a fair amount of money that is being removed from play - this is the complicating factor that I'm struggling to figure out.

The current 1/2 game is heavy on $5s - the few $25s I've seen hit the table are with one player who wants a single $25 chip with any of his $300 buy-ins/rebuys. Guesstimating ~$4k-$5k in play for a 1/2 night. From what I can tell, I think the host and player pool would prefer lots of chips on the table, for example, I think a $300 buy-in might be preferred with 60x $5s and average ~10 $1s per player, and a $1k buy-in might be preferred with 80x $5s and a barrel of $25. Those can fit for initial buy-ins, but rebuys at that level start to lean more and more on higher denoms.

I'm suggesting one of the cards mold designs that would allow him to customize the chips - this is appealing to the host for both aesthetic and security reasons.

So what breakdowns are workable under these parameters? Please hold any comments re: "the game is raked, host should spend more!" I don't disagree at all - I will in fact be pushing in this direction - but I'm trying to work within these guidelines to start as this is the most likely path towards upgrading the chips, keeping a good game running well, and keeping the host happy. +++EV

What’s his current chip count? How’s he handling rake and dealer tips now while leaving enough $5s on the table and minimal $25s?

 

[dmoney]

What’s his current chip count? How’s he handling rake and dealer tips now while leaving enough $5s on the table and minimal $25s?

I will ask tomorrow. I’m hosting at my place (lower stakes, no rake, self dealt, better chips lol) and he’s got a seat.

Edit: I think it’s just a 1k Chip birdcage.

 

[JustinInMN]

He's taking $5 a hand and only wants to spend $500 on chips? This guy is penny wise and dollar dumb.

If he could spend $800 he can get 1000 full customs from br pro poker. if he rakes an average of even $3 dollars a hand he recoups that in roughly 270 hands, or 9-10 hours of play.

Sorry I am so negative on this, but if you rake your game, cutting corners on arbitrary quantities of chips is asinine.

Full disclosure, I have never operated a rake game, I may have friends that do operate a raked game.

If it's single table 1-2 or 1-3. I would suggest 300/600/80/20 of 1/5/25/100, $7300 bank. A little more than 33 buy ins of 300.

But since he's throwing 2-5 in the mix, I think he needs more like 400 or so twenty-fives.

So this is my advice.

1500 chip set 400/600/400/100 of 1/5/25/100. Bank 23,400

Full customs at 80/rack at abc is $1200.

At $3/hand he's recouped the cost after 400 hands, 14-16 hours.

Stop cheaping out! If you rake the game, it's a business, pay for the right tools or get out of the business.

Edit to add:. Sorry @dmoney, I violated your initial request, but honestly, I would rather point out how little time the chips need to be in play to justify the expense than try and fit these parameters.

I would say if he has to stick with 1000, tell him to hold off on 2-5, it's a game that requires different denoms.

 

[dmoney]

He's taking $5 a hand

I’m a little ashamed to admit I don’t know and have not asked what the rake is. The game has been plenty good enough that it hasn’t mattered. And it kinda feels to me like asking about the part of the game that’s legally questionable is not wise.

If you rake the game, it's a business, pay for the right tools or get out of the business.

Strong argument. Don’t disagree.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’m a little ashamed to admit I don’t know and have not asked what the rake is. The game has been plenty good enough that it hasn’t mattered. And it kinda feels to me like asking about the part of the game that’s legally questionable is not wise.

Strong argument. Don’t disagree.

At any raked game you should be watching the dealers. I’ve unfortunately been at games where they double rake or the dealer steals. It happens. Watch next time, good habit to have. Not saying his game does. But still…good habit to pay attention.

 

[dmoney]

At any raked game you should be watching the dealers. I’ve unfortunately been at games where they double rake or the dealer steals. It happens. Watch next time, good habit to have. Not saying his game does. But still…good habit to pay attention.

Agree, hence my shame lol

 

[doublebooyah85]

Agree, hence my shame lol
View attachment 1110235

It’s like any good magic trick lol

 

[ovo]

Consensus seems to be approximately:

$1 - 200
$5 - 500
$25 - 200
$100 - 60
$500 - 40
Total = 1000
Bank = $33700

If it gets bumped to 1,100 or 1,200 chips, I’d probably add a rack each of $5s and $25s.

I have 7 sets to cover that, nice

 

[JustinInMN]

I’m a little ashamed to admit I don’t know and have not asked what the rake is. The game has been plenty good enough that it hasn’t mattered. And it kinda feels to me like asking about the part of the game that’s legally questionable is not wise.

Strong argument. Don’t disagree.

I will dial down the outrage based on finding out the actual rake. (Sorry, obviously I read the OP too quickly, and confused the brink amount mention for a rake amount.)

But players are entitled to know the rake if they are seated in the game. Players are aware what the host is doing is illegal, usually it's the haot at risk and players consent anyway. (Please though understand, IANAL)

And I really appreciate the other posters chiming in against schemes to keep the lower chips in play. IMO, It's a bad look to go into the box in view of the players. Not to mention the time lost in color ups designed to recirculate chips.

If you are going to take a rake, make sure you build the chip set to maximize the handle pulls every session. That means going way overboard on the "raked denoms" compared to home games where chips don't leave the economy.

 

[AWenger]

I've played in a lot of games like this, and I think every game, the hosts have a lot more than 1000 chips -- some even 2000+ chips. But the chips are stored at the game location, and don't have to be carried around. The sets are typically very heavy on the $5s (i.e. 1 rack or more per player), but light on the $1s. And they often don't like getting the $100s in play, but they are there, just in case the night gets crazy and a deeper bank is needed.

200 $1s
1100 $5s
200 $25s
100 $100s (or 80 $100s + 20 $1000s). yes, just skip the $500 denom all together, some places do that, like MGM national harbor.
1600 chips

if there's ever a chance there would be a 2nd table:
300 $1s
1300 $5s
300 $25s
100 $100s (or 80 $100s + 20 $1000s).
2000 chips

If the host is really looking to limit the set of 1000 chips for ease of portability, or something.
200 $1s
500 $5s
200 $25s
80 $100s + 20 $1000s
1000 chips

 

[grandmeme]

A lot of great opinions here. I don't rake, but I do pay my dedicated dealer an hourly rate + tips from the players.

I like my bank to be big, like really big. Especially if you run a raked game. Would hate the bank to run out of cash, my biggest fear ever.

I don't think 33k is enough for a table of 1/2 and a table of 2/5 - I've played in 2/5 uncapped games with like 30k on the table lol. I would go for like 50k, but I'm probably crazy.

Agree with comments about disguising rake with more chips. 1000 chips is a pitiful number for a raked game. Even the stingiest raked host I know has 2k chips to fall back on for his 2 table game.

 

[Machine]

At any raked game you should be watching the dealers. I’ve unfortunately been at games where they double rake or the dealer steals. It happens. Watch next time, good habit to have. Not saying his game does. But still…good habit to pay attention.

You can typically math out if the dealer is stealing tips for themselves, you'd have to watch if they are double raking. This is actually one of the reasons I like to deal, I'm a player and I like knowing the rake on the game is square, other players know how I feel about it. The rake doesn't bother me, if the host is providing value for the rake.

 

[dmoney]

2 table game.

For clarity, the game is just a single table. Host would like to be able to spread 1/2 OR 2/5 NLHE, OR 1/2 PLO.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

The fact that he’s going to sit at your non raked game with awesome chips you’ve probably spent thousands on and then wants to cheap out for his raked game tilts me beyond belief. It’s a business!!! Sorry I couldn’t help myself.

Also you are in a very awkward spot here. If he really wants your help You would need to know how much he rakes. If the rake is equivalent to let’s say $100/hr then maybe he’s better off having players pay “time”. Every 30 minutes players pay the dealer $5 instead of a rake every hand. He can then just collect the $5’s and move them back to the “cage” and when people rebuy/add on they go back in play.

Definitely more details needed to help. I’m with the people that say he needs minimum 1200 chips but more realistically 1500 chips for those bigger games.

Sorry again I know my response is not what you wanted but maybe you can blame us when you talk to him and just say its what the players will want.

 

[dmoney]

The fact that he’s going to sit at your non raked game with awesome chips you’ve probably spent thousands on and then wants to cheap out for his raked game tilts me beyond belief.

Doesn’t bother me, but you are correct! Tonight’s lineup is CDI98 chips, Desjgn cards, refelted Barrington table, and gasser chairs.

 

[philhut]

All things being said here are 1500 Tropicana Gemaco chips for $1k (not mine) that would cover all of the stakes you want to....plus the 1/5's are possible to allow an add on bringing you up to some combination of 2000 chips in the end.......

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/1500-gemaco-tropicanas-1000-shipped.103793/#post-2145398

 

[Ainton]

200 x $1
400 x $5
300 x $25
50 x $100
50 x $500

39700 bank

 

[TomC727]

The fact that he’s going to sit at your non raked game with awesome chips you’ve probably spent thousands on and then wants to cheap out for his raked game tilts me beyond belief. It’s a business!!! Sorry I couldn’t help myself.

Also you are in a very awkward spot here. If he really wants your help You would need to know how much he rakes. If the rake is equivalent to let’s say $100/hr then maybe he’s better off having players pay “time”. Every 30 minutes players pay the dealer $5 instead of a rake every hand. He can then just collect the $5’s and move them back to the “cage” and when people rebuy/add on they go back in play.

Definitely more details needed to help. I’m with the people that say he needs minimum 1200 chips but more realistically 1500 chips for those bigger games.

Sorry again I know my response is not what you wanted but maybe you can blame us when you talk to him and just say its what the players will want.

This right here.

 

[Santa123]

I think the proposed breakdowns lack on $5s.
I prefer at least 1 rack of $5s per player. Better 2.

 

[SpaceMonkey420]

My 1000 chip breakdown for this game would be:

$1– 160
$5– 500
$25-200
$100–100
$500–40

The dealer/floor should be coloring up tips/rake before putting into the drop. My dealer uses a rack to keep his tips. When I see the $5’s barrel get full I buy them from him with $25’s from my stack and the $5’s are back in play.

This was the best I’ve seen so far. This is mine:

$1x 300
$5x 500
$25x 300
$100x 200
$500x 100
$1000x 1000

This starts 1/2 then ends 5/5 dealers choice straddle any positing any amount. Game runs 12 to 15 hours average. If I HAD no choice but to “reduce it” u could take a rack off each and cut the 500/1000 in half. Any less to me would be a hard pass/pain in the rear.

 

[XBobdog]

$1 x 5
$5 x 975
$25 X 5
$100 x 5
$500 x 5
$1000 x 5

It is the way

 

[Santa123]

$1 x 5
$5 x 975
$25 X 5
$100 x 5
$500 x 5
$1000 x 5

It is the way

Still not enough $5s and way too many $25s and $1!

 

[dmoney]

Hosts current breakdown, approx:
260 $1
670 $5
100 $25
50 $100

 

[doublebooyah85]

Hosts current breakdown, approx:
260 $1
670 $5
100 $25
50 $100

View attachment 1111408View attachment 1111409

I like him. Can’t go backwards. Start at 700 $5s and go from there!

 

[dmoney]

I like him

Lol, predictable given some of the live stacks you’ve shared!

 

[Sal Bandini]

How much is he paying you for this research? Let him figure it out. He's running a business and he's getting free service. At the very least, sell him some chips at a profit.

And you got this backwards..."keeping the host happy". It's the players who have to be kept happy, else they won't return.

 

[TomC727]

How much is he paying you for this research? Let him figure it out. He's running a business and he's getting free service. At the very least, sell him some chips at a profit.

And you got this backwards..."keeping the host happy". It's the players who have to be kept happy, else they won't return.

Boom!!!!

 

[TomC727]

I have to ask.

What do you get out of this rake other than action.

Food? Beverages?