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Cash Game I've hosted 100+ live games with friends. Here are our house rules. Thoughts? (3 Viewers)

I've had nights where I've screwed the bank up by $200 (a little too much to drink) - that's completely on me, I own that, and still the guys I play with were generous enough to pitch an extra $20 my way to help cover that. Would be a totally different vibe if I didn't let that be their choice.
 
edwardstarcraft said:
It's in a google doc linked in the event description for the invite I send out. Most people don't read it, but we update it every once in a while when things come up. Multiple people in my friend group host games so we just refer to this collectively.


Ah, there used to be a few sentences in there about duplicate chips / robberies but it was removed so I guess that's why the heading is confusing. Those have never happened to me but I think it's worth addressing.

Let's say someone introduces a few extra $25 chips into your game. How would you deal with it? Would the host eat the loss or would it be chopped among players until you can figure out who the culprit is?
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This is the argument for custom chips. The host/banker eats the difference IMO.
 
edwardstarcraft said:
Let's say someone introduces a few extra $25 chips into your game. How would you deal with it? Would the host eat the loss or would it be chopped among players until you can figure out who the culprit is?
Click to expand...

The host would eat the loss.

It's weird to have banking issues of this sort distributed among the players. To me, part of being the banker is that you're taking responsibility for the money so that other people don't have to worry about it.

I've played in a lot of different games, and I've never run into a formal rule that pins bank over/under on the players. At most there's an informal expectation that the big winner(s) kick something back to cover it.
 
edwardstarcraft said:
Feel free to adopt under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0

Logistics

Buying In
You may buy in up to the table max for any hand before cards are dealt. Where the table max is a “match stack” game, the organizer will approximate the buy cap to the best of their ability.

The organizer keeps track of buy-ins using Regroup Poker Tools (iOS, Android). You will get a notification after every buy confirming your buy amount. If you do not get a notification, or it is incorrect, it is your responsibility to notify the host immediately.

When you cash out, you will get a notification with your net win / loss.

Trust
This is a game between friends, so we trust everyone to pay each other after the game ends. If you are new to the game, we may ask you to directly settle with the organizer or another player on the day of the game. In other cases, we may ask the person who invited you to vouch for you.

If you are a player who has concerns about another player, please bring it up privately with the organizer.

Payments
The organizer will send a message telling the winners who to request. The players may decide how to settle, but by default we use Venmo. The person who won money should send a Venmo request to ensure that no typos or other mistakes were made. Please do not include anything gambling-related as the message, as sometimes Venmo will get trigger-happy with banning gambling related payments.

We expect payments to be made within 3 days. If someone is unable to pay within 3 days, we expect you to privately notify the organizer. This is so that the group can (1) enforce payment if necessary and (2) prevent the person from attending future games, and (3) decide how to take the loss if stolen from. If you decide to pay each other later because you are friends or for any other reason, you implicitly take personal ownership of the debt and can no longer hold the group responsible for enforcing payment.

If you do not have Venmo or have run above Venmo limits, popular methods of payment are Square Cash, Messenger Pay, PayPal, Zelle, Google Pay, and Apple Pay. You may also bring cash to a game and pay the organizer directly.

Errors or Theft
While the organizer will do their best to ensure that there are no errors, there is always a possibility for error or theft.

If there are more chips on the table than buy-ins recorded, we will split the losses evenly between all players, winner and loser alike. If there are multiple tables, we will try to isolate the table that the loss occurred on, otherwise distribute the loss according to average table buy in size.

To minimize error, the organizer sees the expected bank chip count in the poker tools app. Before and after each buy-in or cash-out, the organizer will verify that the bank chip count matches the expected chip count, which should ensure that no buy-in goes unreported.

The Game
We generally follow Robert’s Rules of Poker when playing the game. The floor person is the organizer. However we do deviate!

Dealing & Shuffling
To speed up the game, we usually designate a volunteer player or two in the middle to deal the game. Everyone else should participate in shuffling, but there is no particular order in who should be shuffling.

To ensure a fair game, the dealer should always:
  • Cut the cards when receiving them
  • Use the cut card to protect the bottom of the deck
  • Burn a card only when action is complete on a street
  • Keep the stub above the table at all times
Anyone shuffling is encouraged to learn the tabled riffle. If you have any objections to the dealer or shuffler’s technique, please speak up.

Straddle
Straddle is in UTG positions only. Minimum straddle where the big blind is $2 or $3 is to $5, and max straddle is half your stack. Multiple straddles are allowed, and are live.

A player may announce that they are “permanently straddled”. This means that they will always straddle UTG, and shall be enforced by other members of the table.

When a straddle is announced, and someone attempts to raise to an amount that is valid for a non-straddled pot, we assume good faith and allow the player to change their raise sizing. For instance, in a $1/2/5 hand, if a player attempts to raise to $6, we assume that they meant to raise to 3x bb and allow them to raise up to $15.

Run It Multiple Times
We run a maximum of two times.

Any heads-up pot over $100 may be run multiple times by the agreement of both players.

Any multiway pot over $2,000 may be run multiple times. If a player objects but is not in a side pot, the side pot may be run multiple times.

Bomb Pots
We play a double board bomb pot when we see a monotone (three of the same suit) flop. Players must ante for bomb pots. If they do not wish to play the bomb pot, they may fold their hand on the flop. Players may agree to play more bomb pots, but any other bomb pots are optional.

Bomb pots are played Pot Limit, even for NLH.

To play a double board bomb pot, everyone antes 5 big blinds (3 bb for PLO) and play proceeds directly to the flop. At showdown, the pot is split between the best hand on the first and second boards. We do not run double board bomb pots multiple times, as there are already two boards.

Posting
You do not have to post to join the game. You also do not have to post when away from the table for a moderate amount of time, or are doing something for the benefit of the game (like grabbing food, etc).

If, however, you are away for a short duration and miss the blinds, you must post the blinds missed. A small blind posted is live.

When a player busts or sits out, we use a “dead button” for button advancement.

Ratholing
Ratholing (taking money off the table) is not allowed.

Chopping
Chopping is not allowed. Chopping makes sense in raked games (especially in California) where there is a flat drop, but there is no rake at these games so there is no reason to chop. Play the blinds!

Multi-Tabling
Playing in an app game while at a live game is not allowed. This slows down and distracts players from the game.

Thanks for reading!
Feel free to comment with any feedback! I'm working to put together a guide with everything I've learned for running a great game. If you're starting to host your own games, let me know if you have any questions! Would love to help out and add it to my guide.
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My two cents - Guys should bring cash to the game - guy running game holds the cash and acts as and is responsible for money. Let players venmo each other if needed but require cash. Dont run it twice (slows the game way down and everyone else has to wait around longer when it happens). Players will say “we should get to decide when its our money at stake”. Your reply in my opinion is “i dont allow that at my game.” You will get in a lot more hands and it will speed up the game and make it more fun. Lastly have good and consistent rules. Even if you have bad rules., if you consistently apply them equally everyone will appreciate you more because the enforcement of rules makes the game better. Also your game sounds like fun.
 
upNdown said:
… But leaving a game with nothing, waiting for instructions, then having to chase down somebody else for the money? I would hate that.

And if I lost money that night and you told me I actually lost even more than I bought in for because somebody screwed up the accounting? No I wouldn’t like that either.
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I also agree with this 100%. Even if you’re doing buy-ins and pay-outs electronically, it should be done then and there. If the money is good enough to be deposited at that time, it is good enough to be dispensed too!
If there‘s an issue with the app tracking money movement and a 3-day layover is needed to avoid flags on the account for suspicious activity, then that should be (and probably is) stipulated and agreed upon by all players before the game date.
Good ol’ cash is best after all!
 
At some point a game gets big enough that it has to move to credit. In fact, for security reasons alone, I would favor credit in lieu of having a lot of cash at a bigger game.

Having been at a few decent sized games in my poker career, and historically having done my share of hosting, I can tell you without a doubt the bag banking system is hands down the best system for minimizing potential errors and, if the host is actually playing, for maximizing the hosts enjoyment of playing (and not being hassled for rebuys every 5 minutes).

How it works - at the beginning of the game everyone gets a bag with a certain amount of chips - enough for a number of rebuys. The host determines how much is in each bag. At the end of the night, the players are responsible for the initials amount plus any rebuys. At the end of the night 1) each player tells the host their total number. If they are up they get paid and if down they pay, 2) All players put all their chips in the bag (that way if the bank is off the host can go through each bag to find the error), and 3) The host adds up the wins and losses to make sure the bank is right.

If someone blows through a bag during the game, they can get a rebuy which can be the same amount as the initial bag or some other amount. The key is that the rebuys are a uniform amount. The only difference is that a new chip denomination for the rebuys is introduced. That way, over the course of the night, the host can tell how many rebuys have occurred based on how many of the new denomination is in circulation.

The benefits are that 1) the number of rebuys go way down, making it very easy to track the rebuys and the bank, 2) the host can enjoy the game and not be hassled, and 3) at the end of the night calculating/confirming the bank is easy.

This method is awesome but it does require trust among the players as you are giving credit to everyone. Also, u must trust the players to not add on more than any table limits or go south. It’s obviously not for every game. The games I attend - the players all know each other, trust each other and have A plus credit. So this system works well. Just my two cents.
 
Not seeing it. More possibilities for risky business. When someone needs a rebuy, I (host) grabs oversized chips from directly behind me and when the banker adds the money to his drawer I hand off the chips. Our game isn’t large per se (<$1000 on the table) but everyone is in acquaintance, our location is secure, and there are other security measures in place in the event of some sort of attempt at a robbery.

My philosophy is keeping things basic.

I’m not sure what type of table amount I would need to think of doing it any other way.
 
Goldfish said:
At some point a game gets big enough that it has to move to credit. In fact, for security reasons alone, I would favor credit in lieu of having a lot of cash at a bigger game.

Having been at a few decent sized games in my poker career, and historically having done my share of hosting, I can tell you without a doubt the bag banking system is hands down the best system for minimizing potential errors and, if the host is actually playing, for maximizing the hosts enjoyment of playing (and not being hassled for rebuys every 5 minutes).

How it works - at the beginning of the game everyone gets a bag with a certain amount of chips - enough for a number of rebuys. The host determines how much is in each bag. At the end of the night, the players are responsible for the initials amount plus any rebuys. At the end of the night 1) each player tells the host their total number. If they are up they get paid and if down they pay, 2) All players put all their chips in the bag (that way if the bank is off the host can go through each bag to find the error), and 3) The host adds up the wins and losses to make sure the bank is right.

If someone blows through a bag during the game, they can get a rebuy which can be the same amount as the initial bag or some other amount. The key is that the rebuys are a uniform amount. The only difference is that a new chip denomination for the rebuys is introduced. That way, over the course of the night, the host can tell how many rebuys have occurred based on how many of the new denomination is in circulation.

The benefits are that 1) the number of rebuys go way down, making it very easy to track the rebuys and the bank, 2) the host can enjoy the game and not be hassled, and 3) at the end of the night calculating/confirming the bank is easy.

This method is awesome but it does require trust among the players as you are giving credit to everyone. Also, u must trust the players to not add on more than any table limits or go south. It’s obviously not for every game. The games I attend - the players all know each other, trust each other and have A plus credit. So this system works well. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Seems like a helluva lot of work and, as I said earlier, a huge opportunity for things to get messed up.
 
merkong said:
Seems like a helluva lot of work and, as I said earlier, a huge opportunity for things to get messed up.
Click to expand...
The game u are describing and the game I am talking about is an apples to oranges comparison. For the game I am talking about your way is just not feasible at all.
 
Goldfish said:
At some point a game gets big enough that it has to move to credit. In fact, for security reasons alone, I would favor credit in lieu of having a lot of cash at a bigger game.

Having been at a few decent sized games in my poker career, and historically having done my share of hosting, I can tell you without a doubt the bag banking system is hands down the best system for minimizing potential errors and, if the host is actually playing, for maximizing the hosts enjoyment of playing (and not being hassled for rebuys every 5 minutes).

How it works - at the beginning of the game everyone gets a bag with a certain amount of chips - enough for a number of rebuys. The host determines how much is in each bag. At the end of the night, the players are responsible for the initials amount plus any rebuys. At the end of the night 1) each player tells the host their total number. If they are up they get paid and if down they pay, 2) All players put all their chips in the bag (that way if the bank is off the host can go through each bag to find the error), and 3) The host adds up the wins and losses to make sure the bank is right.

If someone blows through a bag during the game, they can get a rebuy which can be the same amount as the initial bag or some other amount. The key is that the rebuys are a uniform amount. The only difference is that a new chip denomination for the rebuys is introduced. That way, over the course of the night, the host can tell how many rebuys have occurred based on how many of the new denomination is in circulation.

The benefits are that 1) the number of rebuys go way down, making it very easy to track the rebuys and the bank, 2) the host can enjoy the game and not be hassled, and 3) at the end of the night calculating/confirming the bank is easy.

This method is awesome but it does require trust among the players as you are giving credit to everyone. Also, u must trust the players to not add on more than any table limits or go south. It’s obviously not for every game. The games I attend - the players all know each other, trust each other and have A plus credit. So this system works well. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of the bag system before but definitely sounds interesting!

Off the top of my head, here are my initial concerns:
1. It's hard to verify the number of chips in the bag, and if each player takes the time to do so, it slows down starting the game.
2. Chips aren't visible at all times so it introduces possibility of ratholing / introducing counterfeit chips
3. Introduces more chips to count at the end and if you limit the bag to high denom chips for rebuys, errors can be costly

I do like how it makes it less obvious when people are rebuying. Right now I think having to ask the host to addon (especially when matching stack) can be a bit awkward as other players may point it out and make it a joke / etc (comments like "lol you want to stack XYZ huh").
 
edwardstarcraft said:
I've never heard of the bag system before but definitely sounds interesting!

Off the top of my head, here are my initial concerns:
1. It's hard to verify the number of chips in the bag, and if each player takes the time to do so, it slows down starting the game.
2. Chips aren't visible at all times so it introduces possibility of ratholing / introducing counterfeit chips
3. Introduces more chips to count at the end and if you limit the bag to high denom chips for rebuys, errors can be costly

I do like how it makes it less obvious when people are rebuying. Right now I think having to ask the host to addon (especially when matching stack) can be a bit awkward as other players may point it out and make it a joke / etc (comments like "lol you want to stack XYZ huh").
Click to expand...
1. We usually eat dinner first so there is plenty of time to confirm the contents of the bag. It takes 2 minutes anyway.
2. The players I play with are 100 trustworthy. In all the years I have been playing where this system is employed this has never ever been an issue or concern. If this was ever even a remote concern for anyone, that person would not get an invite.
3. The point is to significantly reduce the number of rebuys, which is achieved by this method. It is far more easy to retrace 3 rebuys over the course of a night as opposed to 30.

As stated previously, this method is not for every game. But if the host is giving out credit anyway this method enables the host to be able to concentrate on playing as opposed to banking every 5 minutes. In all the years this method has been used, I have never had an issue that couldn’t be resolved by going back through the bags at the end of the night.
 
I did something similar for an event, used the big clear prescription bottle tubes that some people use for starting tournament stacks. They became a person's "wallet". Everyone bought the equivalent of 4 typical buy-ins at the beginning of the event (paid for upfront), and could buy more if they wanted (again paid upfront), but the chips all went into the wallet first, and then they used those chips to buy in at a table. They could then add-on to their table stacks from the wallet between hands. Saved from having to process a bunch of buy-ins, and then cashed out a person if they left early and everyone else at the end.
 
Goldfish said:
1. We usually eat dinner first so there is plenty of time to confirm the contents of the bag. It takes 2 minutes anyway.
2. The players I play with are 100 trustworthy. In all the years I have been playing where this system is employed this has never ever been an issue or concern. If this was ever even a remote concern for anyone, that person would not get an invite.
3. The point is to significantly reduce the number of rebuys, which is achieved by this method. It is far more easy to retrace 3 rebuys over the course of a night as opposed to 30.

As stated previously, this method is not for every game. But if the host is giving out credit anyway this method enables the host to be able to concentrate on playing as opposed to banking every 5 minutes. In all the years this method has been used, I have never had an issue that couldn’t be resolved by going back through the bags at the end of the night.
Click to expand...
I understand if there’s a shitton of cash involved, it’s different. And this system makes sense.
It also might serve to encourage looser play. If you’ve already got your rebuy chips in your bag that makes rebuys easier both ways.
 
What I do, and this is sort of unorthodox, granted, but I give players chips when they give me cash. If they give me chips, I give them cash. It’s a cash for chips / chips for cash situation with a foundational genesis that emanates from the medieval times when bartering was the default coin of the realm for goods and services. You give me cash, I give you chips. You give me chips, I give you cash.

You take my chips home….

 
I know there are other threads about cash versus e-payments and some of that debate came up here, but I want at least give @edwardstarcraft some credit for at least codifying an e-payment procedure that has evolved from his game, regardless of my feelings on cash versus e-payment. So good work on that.

Other comments...

edwardstarcraft said:
If a player objects but is not in a side pot, the side pot may be run multiple times.
Click to expand...
I am stealing this rule for my book. I am pro multiple runs because I do believe the less players get felted, the longer the games tend to go. Players outside of any side pots should not get to veto multiple runs.

edwardstarcraft said:
For casual/tiny stakes games I've been to, I always caution hosts against using the blue denomination dice chips. They look almost identical to the white chips from the sides so it's really easy to sell / cash a dirty stack!
Click to expand...
Having played with blue and white dice chips before, I 100% agree they look far too close alike in stacks.

edwardstarcraft said:
Ah, there used to be a few sentences in there about duplicate chips / robberies but it was removed so I guess that's why the heading is confusing. Those have never happened to me but I think it's worth addressing.

Let's say someone introduces a few extra $25 chips into your game. How would you deal with it? Would the host eat the loss or would it be chopped among players until you can figure out who the culprit is?
Click to expand...

Now let's make this thread about chips. Most of us on PCF have either custom chips, relabeled casino-used chips, or relatively rare casino-used sets for this reason. And frankly, for the stakes you are playing, having stock ships vulnerable to introduction, just shouldn't be acceptable.

At a minimum, you could be looking at semi-custom ceramics from BR Pro poker. You can get a 600 chip set for roughly $480, much less than one "bad night" at your stakes. This will keep you out of color issues and create chips not at all vulnerable to "introductions" as stock chips are. I know it won't happen to most hosts. But to some it will, someone sneaks a couple blackbirds into a game and the host wishes they had just taken this customization measure. Pay once before it happens, and never worry about it.
 
JustinInMN said:
I know there are other threads about cash versus e-payments and some of that debate came up here, but I want at least give @edwardstarcraft some credit for at least codifying an e-payment procedure that has evolved from his game, regardless of my feelings on cash versus e-payment. So good work on that.

Now let's make this thread about chips. Most of us on PCF have either custom chips, relabeled casino-used chips, or relatively rare casino-used sets for this reason. And frankly, for the stakes you are playing, having stock ships vulnerable to introduction, just shouldn't be acceptable.

At a minimum, you could be looking at semi-custom ceramics from BR Pro poker. You can get a 600 chip set for roughly $480, much less than one "bad night" at your stakes. This will keep you out of color issues and create chips not at all vulnerable to "introductions" as stock chips are. I know it won't happen to most hosts. But to some it will, someone sneaks a couple blackbirds into a game and the host wishes they had just taken this customization measure. Pay once before it happens, and never worry about it.
Click to expand...
Appreciate your thoughts!

I have a Majestic set, which is fairly common. But I have a webcam recording and haven't really heard of any games adjacent to mine experiencing this issue, so I haven't been motivated to find replacements.

If I were to get custom chips, I'd probably just go all-out and get some CPCs.
 
I'm sure this will get a lot of noise on here, but, Ive played in games, off and on, for 30 years and there's one thing that I question. I'll start by going ahead and drawing the lines for which everyone can choose sides, here goes: I'm not a fan of all the side bets, prop bets, reruns, straddles, etc. My observation is that these guys are just gambling junkies, and, I just want to play poker. If the thrill for you is just the rush of any kind of bet, go drop coins in a slot machine.

I realize this is somewhat off topic, but, reading through this thread there was discussion of rules for said betting. For those of us that really enjoy the game of poker, many of these betting antics take away from an otherwise enjoyable session of playing poker.

Am I way off base here? Am I alone? Anyone else feel the same, or, am I in the middle of a bunch of gambling junkies and need an escort to my car? What say you??
 
KHarp1 said:
I'm sure this will get a lot of noise on here, but, Ive played in games, off and on, for 30 years and there's one thing that I question. I'll start by going ahead and drawing the lines for which everyone can choose sides, here goes: I'm not a fan of all the side bets, prop bets, reruns, straddles, etc. My observation is that these guys are just gambling junkies, and, I just want to play poker. If the thrill for you is just the rush of any kind of bet, go drop coins in a slot machine.

I realize this is somewhat off topic, but, reading through this thread there was discussion of rules for said betting. For those of us that really enjoy the game of poker, many of these betting antics take away from an otherwise enjoyable session of playing poker.

Am I way off base here? Am I alone? Anyone else feel the same, or, am I in the middle of a bunch of gambling junkies and need an escort to my car? What say you??
Click to expand...
I’m inclined to agree with you, but considering that’s how guys like Doyle and Ivey do it, I can’t really say they’re doing it wrong.
 
KHarp1 said:
I'm sure this will get a lot of noise on here, but, Ive played in games, off and on, for 30 years and there's one thing that I question. I'll start by going ahead and drawing the lines for which everyone can choose sides, here goes: I'm not a fan of all the side bets, prop bets, reruns, straddles, etc. My observation is that these guys are just gambling junkies, and, I just want to play poker. If the thrill for you is just the rush of any kind of bet, go drop coins in a slot machine.

I realize this is somewhat off topic, but, reading through this thread there was discussion of rules for said betting. For those of us that really enjoy the game of poker, many of these betting antics take away from an otherwise enjoyable session of playing poker.

Am I way off base here? Am I alone? Anyone else feel the same, or, am I in the middle of a bunch of gambling junkies and need an escort to my car? What say you??
Click to expand...
Playing poker but not gambling on anything on the side is going to McDonalds and getting hamburger but only wanting the buns.
 

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