Just some noob chip questions (1 Viewer)

[nyczalex]

over the past few days, I have done a lot of lurking and studying.. I was a total complete noob to poker chips and somewhat thought heavier=better. I thought my 500 PC dice molded set that came with a metal case that I purchased randomly from Google search was professional but only now to learn that it is garbage and that I've overpaid. I now know about the different types and parts of chips.

What are the different types of inlays? Is it either laser engraved or custom sticker sticking?

Seems like spotted edges designs are endless.. Pretty much anything can happen but then there are the many default designs that sellers have preselected to choose from. Is there anyway to customize this? Say instead of spotted edges, maybe we can draw like triangles/boxes or whatever?

Same question as above but with mold. Is this customizable like we can create our own mold?

i feel like I had some other question that o really wanted to ask but I forgot.. i apologize for the long post and if it's hard to read. I'm lacking sleep zzz

Also, should I just update this if I have more questions or I can create a new thread? I know I'll have more questions eventually as I'm still new to this but I'll like to create new threads so people can see instead of just bumping if that's okay.

 

[MillyS]

I know the situation you are in, I think everyone's been there. I would consider myself a noob in this too to be fair, but I am still going to try and touch on some answers. I am sure more experienced chippers will give great answers and correct anything that I say (if it's wrong).

Inlays - normally stickers, but these can vary greatly in quality and texture, usually last a lifetime but they are stickers and can peel off if mistreated or submerged in water etc during cleaning. Another type of inlay are hot stamps, I believe these are just stamped directly onto a chip. Then you have the more traditional casino style inlays (actual inlays) these are embedded into the actual chip during manufacturing, so won't peel off like a sticker.

Yeah there are lots of different types of molds out there. If you go for custom chips, then you can select a wide variety of molds. However there usually a set different types of molds available. In terms of edge spots, there's a huge variety and when you add colours, the possibilities are endless really. I would check out the custom poker chips website for a better idea of molds and edge spots etc available.

You also have ceramic chips, these have the designs printed directly onto the chip, so you can have these completely customised to whatever you desire (colours, edges, alignment etc)

Ohh yeah then u can get into what type of chip (probably should be looked at before considering anything else), eg cpc, casino, China clays, ceramic, metal inserts etc.

Chipping can become very expensive and so a lot will depend on your budget.

I would also recommend checking out YouTube videos by someone called hobbyphilic, he has some great reviews in standardly available chips. The only thing is, he doesn't discuss custom chips, but still a good place to start.

Hope this reply helps.

 

[Blaster]

"Inlays" refer to labels that are actually pressed into a compression molded clay chip under high pressure/ heat during chip manufacture , and are not simple labels/ stickers.
Currently only Paulson and CPC make compression molded clay chips with real inlays.
Other chips , such as various plastics, china Clays, hybrid ceramics ect have simple gummed labels or stickers applied after manufacture.

 

[Psypher1000]

What are the different types of inlays?

I think what you're actually asking here are "What types of things can make up the design in the middle of the chip? If that's the case, there are four that come to mind:

1. Laser-engraving (no custom services for this are currently available that I'm aware of)
2. Hot-stamping (CPC & other sellers will hot-stamp a newly purchased set for you; aftermarket stampers do exist, but aren't that common)
3. Labels/stickers (@Gear, PGI, and others make these)
   
4. Permanent inlays (Only offered by GPI - casinos only, of course - and CPC)

Technically you could say dye sublimation as well, but that's only for ceramics.

Is there anyway to customize this? Say instead of spotted edges, maybe we can draw like triangles/boxes or whatever?

Not currently, no. The edgespots available to us are all available on pokerchipdesigntool.com. Most other edge spots that we've inquired with David about either aren't possible or aren't profitable for them. The only way to somewhat have custom edgespots is to have them created by a designer to be dyed onto ceramic chips & get the rolling edges aligned.

Is this customizable like we can create our own mold?

At CPC you can create your own mold for $25k+. At Sunfly you *may* be able to create your own mold for around $4k. Other than that, no. And yes, those prices are real.

 

[Blaster]

..... The CPC edgedpots are essentially "punches".. The edgedpots are punch/cut from the chip , & the different color clay is added and molded into the chip ( heat and pressure) to create the finished product.

 

[BGinGA]

looks like a good time to post this again:

Five stages of creating a compression-molded chip with inserts and inlay:

photo link from Robert Eisenstadt's excellent Antique Gambling Chips & Gambling Memorabilia web site:
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/

 

[nyczalex]

I love this place.. The fast and helpful replies give me a better and more indepth understanding of everything.. Thanks guys!

 

[Blaster]

I love this place.. The fast and helpful replies give me a better and more indepth understanding of everything.. Thanks guys!

Might as well add, for your info collection, ..
1) Vegas, AC & most other casinos "historically" have mostly used compression molded clay chips ( Mfgrs-; Burt Co,.-became ASM- Became CPC,/ -- , TR King, - Christie & Jones, - Paulson -GPI /- Blue Chip- GPI) were the main "players in clay chips, only CPC & GPI currently remain,.... PGI (Palm Gaming), also has the equipment and compression clay capability from a recent overseas chip mfgr asset purchase, but has yet to introduce clay chips..
Clays that are labled are inlayed (label compressed into chip material under pressure, as mentioned in earlier posts).
( Plastic and ceramic chips have also made some larger inroads with casino use in the last 25 years ) ...

2 ) Most all other-than compression-clay chips, are simple injection molded plastic, or injection of plastic mixture ( dice, China Clay, Heavyweight, almost everything on eBay & at retailers, Matsui, "ceramics" ), some plastics are injected over a metal insert for weight. Injection molding uses relatively little or no pressure to inject liquid plastic into a "mold", this is how everything from toy army men, phone faceplates, to toilet brush handles, are injection molded inexpensively .. All , if labeled, have "stickers" applied, with the exception of "ceramic" (see below) ..

3) * "Ceramic" chips aren't made of actual ceramic, but rather a solid hard Polyester type (plastic) material, & printed directly onto without label, the finished product has a feel that's been described similar to ceramic or porcelain.. There is a ceramic hybrid that has a recess & can use a sticker/label , instead of printing, as well.. .
* "China Clay" chips are injection molded plastic, in which usually a mineral (chalk-calcium carbonate) has been added to the liquid plastic before injection to give the chips a more "clay like" feel.
* The "Real clay" Paulson / CPC chips aren't actually made of earthen "pottery" clay/dirt , but a mixture of various mineral and chemical ingredients & colorants, formed into a "clay" that is compressed...

 

[Wils]

I thought my 500 PC dice molded set that came with a metal case that I purchased randomly from Google search was professional but only now to learn that it is garbage and that I've overpaid.
.

If they're fine for what you want them for, they're not garbage!

 

[nyczalex]

Might as well add, for your info collection, ..
1) Vegas, AC & most other casinos "historically" have mostly used compression molded clay chips ( Burt Co,.-became ASM- Became CPC,/ -- Christie & Jones - Paulson -GPI /- Blue Chip- GPI) were the main "players in clay chips, only CPC & GPI currently remain,.... PGI (Palm Gaming), also has the equipment and compression clay capability from a recent overseas chip mfgr asset purchase, but has yet to introduce clay chips.. Clays that are labled are inlayed (label compressed into chip material under pressure, as mentioned in earlier posts) ( Plastic and ceramic chips have made some inroads with casinos in the last 25 years ) ...

2 ) Most other chips are simple injection molded plastic or plastic mixture ( dice, China Clay, Heavyweight, almost everything on eBay & at retailers, Matsui, "ceramic" ), some are injected over a metal insert for weight. Injection molding uses relatively little or no pressure to inject liquid plastic into a "mold", this is how everything from toy army men, phone faceplates, to toilet brush handles, are injection molded inexpensively .. All if labeled, have "stickers" applied, with the exception of "ceramic" (see below) ..

3) * "Ceramic" chips aren't made of actual ceramic, but rather a hard Nylon or Rayon type (plastic) material, & printed directly onto, the finished product has a feel similar to ceramic or porcelain.. There is a ceramic hybrid that has a recess & can use a sticker/label , instead of printing as well.. .
* "China Clay" chips are injection molded plastic, in which usually a mineral (chalk-calcium carbonate) has been added to the liquid plastic before injection to give the chips a more "clay like" feel.
* The "Real clay" Paulson / CPC chips aren't made of earthen "pottery" clay/dirt , but a mixture of various mineral and chemical ingredients & colorants, formed into a "clay" that is compressed...

Ok, let me see if i'm digesting all of this correctly...
1- the brands of clay chips and the companies that sell them?
2- everything else is either all plastic or a some sort of plastic mixture(ceramic?) Aka almost everything else.
3- ceramic = plastic mixture chip with metal insert?

china clay is basically a knockoff to get more of a clay feel but is not actually quite the same.

So which chips would be the best overall?
Real clay ---> China clay ---> Ceramic ---> Plastic

And the price range would also be the same order, correct?

 

[Blaster]

Ok, let me see if i'm digesting all of this correctly...
1- the brands of clay chips and the companies that sell them?
2- everything else is either all plastic or a some sort of plastic mixture(ceramic?) Aka almost everything else.
3- ceramic = plastic mixture chip with metal insert?

china clay is basically a knockoff to get more of a clay feel but is not actually quite the same.

So which chips would be the best overall?
Real clay ---> China clay ---> Ceramic ---> Plastic

And the price range would also be the same order, correct?

1 yes.
2. Yes (see next),
3. No.
.. As mentioned in 3 , ceramic chips do Not have an insert, they are actually a solid hard polyester type material without an insert.
Plastic "dice" chips & other 11.5-14 gram slippery chips are known to often have a metal insert inside the outer plastic..

Price range would be Real clay $$$ 1st, then usually ceramic , however the "others" can be close in prices ...
As far as "best" .. that is very subjective, but I'll go out on a limb & state Real compression molded clay is best overall ..
Ceramics have a different feel, some prefer China Clay over ceramic, even though many China clays may be less expensive,
( however they look/feel most like a clay inlayed chip among the non-compression varieties, if that's what you're after), , other people feel opposite, but these 2 tend to be the also-rans for custom home sets, & will tend to be a bit more economical ( there are exceptions) ...

I have edited my post # 8 above for a bit better clarity..

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Another note on ceramics is that they vary quite a bit in look and feel. Ceramics from one vendor will differ significantly from ceramics from another. As well, print quality can vary a bit depending on the vendor used. As Blaster mentioned, there are many different opinions on ceramics. Many people like them (I'm in that camp), while others can't stand them. But I would rate the custom ceramics from any of the vendors on the board above china clays.

 

[Chicken Rob]

I think most people tend to rate ceramics above China clay for 2 reasons:

1. You can get a full custom ceramic
2. You will see ceramics in use in casinos, but you'll never see a China clay in a casino.

 

[nyczalex]

I think most people tend to rate ceramics above China clay for 2 reasons:

1. You can get a full custom ceramic
2. You will see ceramics in use in casinos, but you'll never see a China clay in a casino.

nice, some notable info that isn't commonly brought up

 

[BooRayUSA]

I'm sure some will disagree but I think some China Clays are a great entry level option for theneveryday playing chip set. Priced good and IMHO leaps over the Wally World plastics. Just my 2 cents

 

[Chicken Rob]

I'm sure some will disagree but I think some China Clays are a great entry level option for theneveryday playing chip set. Priced good and IMHO leaps over the Wally World plastics. Just my 2 cents

I totally agree, however the current group buy tommy is running is a pretty price competitive option if you prefer ceramics.

My only problems with the China clays is I don't like any of the edge spots.

 

[BGinGA]

2. You will see ceramics in use in casinos, but you'll never see a China clay in a casino.

Never say never in the crazy world of chips and cost-cutting measures. There are relabeled slugged chips, china clays, and even off-the-shelf low-budget plastic chips being used in some legitimate gambling establishments.

 

[nyczalex]

ceramics are 100% customizable, inlay, mold, edged spots, body?
china clay is only if i like the feel of it and cost cheaper?

where would be places i look for each type of chip? ceramics? chinaclays?etc.? and do they allow actual customization of inlays/edgespots/mock/etc. like the way cpc offers?
as far as i see, most of those sites/vendors on the sub forums focus mainly on 100% clay chips that allow customization while other types of chips are simply pre-designed chips and offer no customization

 

[BGinGA]

Ceramics are plain white blanks, which can be printed with pretty much any image on the faces and rolling edge (front and back can be different, and can be matched up to artwork on the rolling edge -- called aligned edges -- to give the impression of edge-spots found on clay-type chips).

Different companies that offer custom ceramics use different blanks (that look and feel different) and different printing methods (which affects print sharpness and quality) -- which is why getting samples is important.

Custom ceramics are available from ABC, GOCC, Sun-Fly, PGI, OWPS, and BRPro. The latter three use Sun-Fly blanks, while both ABC and GOCC use their own proprietary design.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Never say never in the crazy world of chips and cost-cutting measures. There are relabeled slugged chips, china clays, and even off-the-shelf low-budget plastic chips being used in some legitimate gambling establishments.

I've seen cheap chips in small legal card rooms, but never in a full casino. Even the crappy table game only casinos in nh have paulsons.

 

[Blaster]

ceramics are 100% customizable, inlay, mold, edged spots, body?
china clay is only if i like the feel of it and cost cheaper?

where would be places i look for each type of chip? ceramics? chinaclays?etc.? and do they allow actual customization of inlays/edgespots/mock/etc. like the way cpc offers?
as far as i see, most of those sites/vendors on the sub forums focus mainly on 100% clay chips that allow customization while other types of chips are simply pre-designed chips and offer no customization

If you are looking to purchase a single set for yourself, forget any custom "mold", unless you plan to invest many, many thousands of dollars on a mold, as mentioned by a poster earlier ..
As far as main customizing differences in China Clay / Ceramic:
Ceramic - There is no "mold" design(as would be in a clay chip), & no "inlay", but the entire chip can be printed directly onto with your design .. Not able to "re-label", higher cost.
China Clay - Give closer to the look/feel of a true Paulson/CPC clay( feel as compared to ceramic only), , the "inlay" is a label that can be fully customized to your design, easy to re-label in the future, lower cost. You must pick from existing mold and edgespot choices.
Try Palm Gaming & other vendor websites listed here ...

 

[Chicken Rob]

Ceramics are plain white blanks, which can be printed with pretty much any image on the faces and rolling edge (front and back can be different, and can be matched up to artwork on the rolling edge -- called aligned edges -- to give the impression of edge-spots found on clay-type chips).

Different companies that offer custom ceramics use different blanks (that look and feel different) and different printing methods (which affects print sharpness and quality) -- which is why getting samples is important.

Custom ceramics are available from ABC, GOCC, Sun-Fly, PGI, OWPS, and BRPro. The latter three use Sun-Fly blanks, while both ABC and GOCC use their own proprietary design.

And there are hybrid ceramics that have recessed centers on the faces to take a sticker. Take a look at the group buy thread on the borgata knock offs that tommy is running.

 

[BGinGA]

I was gonna let the 'basic ceramics' lesson soak in a bit first before jumping into hybrids. I didn't want to confuse him just yet.

 

[Chicken Rob]

I understand your intent, but I think the current hybrid group buy is an attractive option for noobs, especially those looking to keep costs down while maximizing quality.

 

[nyczalex]

i'm just trying to learn and soak up all this information because of curiosity. i already helped my friend place a big order at a local party + supplies store in new jersery since it was more of a rush order but my hobby is growing strong for chips so i need to increase my knowledge before making my very own purchase.

how do i tell which sites are selling what types of chips?

i went to the palm vendor site and see custom clay chips, how do i know if they are china clay or not?

i thought every type of chip i can customize with their premade list of spotted edge and molds that they have available? A lot of these places, I only see option to attach image for the inlay. Only CPC (classicpokerchips), i see the option for able to choose from a list of spotted edge/molds/etc., is that the only vendor that has selection to actually choose from and actual customize a chip?

 

[Chicken Rob]

CPC is the only vendor making a genuine compression molded clay chip for the home market. Anyone else claiming this right now is lying.

 

[Blaster]

i'm just trying to learn and soak up all this information because of curiosity. i already helped my friend place a big order at a local party + supplies store in new jersery since it was more of a rush order but my hobby is growing strong for chips so i need to increase my knowledge before making my very own purchase.

how do i tell which sites are selling what types of chips?

i went to the palm vendor site and see custom clay chips, how do i know if they are china clay or not?

i thought every type of chip i can customize with their premade list of spotted edge and molds that they have available? A lot of these places, I only see option to attach image for the inlay. Only CPC (classicpokerchips), i see the option for able to choose from a list of spotted edge/molds/etc., is that the only vendor that has selection to actually choose from and actual customize a chip?

Yes the selection of edgespots and molds on CPC is unique to CPC and their real compression Clays there ..
The Palm Gaming Clays you saw are China Clays.
As mentioned before, forget customizing molds and edgedpots if not ordering from CPC..