Cash Game Need a Ruling (4 Viewers)

[augster123]

Microstakes $0.25/$0.50 NLHE game. Early position raises first in to $10 (later in the evening, drinks have been flowing). Middle position re-raises, makes it $20. Button jams for $27.75 (so less than a full raise).

Can early position (original raiser) re-raise all-in? This situation led to a furious, alcohol-impaired argument.

• One player (the most seasoned) said no, because the all-in player did make a full raise, the next player can only call
• Half the table said yes, the middle player completed a full raise, so early position can raise him
• Rest of the table wanted another round of drinks

Thanks.

 

[demonnic]

No, the second jam was only $7 and change more and needed to be at least $10 to reopen the action

 

[Taghkanic]

Mmm… Maybe I’m missing something. But here, the EP opener raised and got re-raised (more than 2x fwiw). I don’t think the third player’s small jam limits his ability to reraise. He retains the ability to go over the top since he is facing a min raise or more.

But if the EP opener flats the $27.75 jam, the $20 raiser is by contrast capped because he was raised less than his raise ($7.75 vs $10).

If the second player had flatted the $10 and the third jammed for say $17.75, then the initial raiser would be limited to flatting I believe.

 

[augster123]

Yeah, that exactly was the point of contention. Because the middle position completed a full re-raise, does that allow the original raiser to 5-bet it, or does the all-in close the action?

 

[Taghkanic]

Yeah, that exactly was the point of contention. Because the middle position completed a full re-raise, does that allow the original raiser to 5-bet it, or does the all-in close the action?

I don’t believe it closes the action for the original raiser, only the one who made it $20, due to the relative sizes of each subsequent raise.

 

[Natskule]

Microstakes $0.25/$0.50 NLHE game. Early position raises first in to $10 (later in the evening, drinks have been flowing). Middle position re-raises, makes it $20. Button jams for $27.75 (so less than a full raise).

Can early position (original raiser) re-raise all-in? This situation led to a furious, alcohol-impaired argument.

• One player (the most seasoned) said no, because the all-in player did make a full raise, the next player can only call
• Half the table said yes, the middle player completed a full raise, so early position can raise him
• Rest of the table wanted another round of drinks

Thanks.

The Early position can raise as he is facing a full raise ($17.75), but if the early position just calls then the middle position can't raise as he isn't facing a full raise. I think the early position player could raise a minimum of $10.

47: Re-Opening the Bet.
A: In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager (or cumulative multiple short all-ins) totaling less than a full bet or raise will not reopen betting for players who have already acted and are not facing at least a full bet or raise when the action returns to them. If multiple short all-ins re-open the betting, the minimum raise is always the last full valid bet or raise of the round (See also Rule 43).

It reads like it matters what bet the player is facing, not what the last bet was.

 

[Natskule]

No, the second jam was only $7 and change more and needed to be at least $10 to reopen the action

The $7.75 wasn't enough to open the action for the middle position, but the $10 raise by the middle position opened the action up to the early position.

 

[augster123]

The Early position can raise as he is facing a full raise ($17.75), but if the early position just calls then the middle position can't raise as he isn't facing a full raise. I think the early position player could raise a minimum of $10.

47: Re-Opening the Bet.
A: In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager (or cumulative multiple short all-ins) totaling less than a full bet or raise will not reopen betting for players who have already acted and are not facing at least a full bet or raise when the action returns to them. If multiple short all-ins re-open the betting, the minimum raise is always the last full valid bet or raise of the round (See also Rule 43).

It reads like it matters what bet the player is facing, not what the last bet was.

that makes sense and i agree with your reading of the rule. THANKS!

 

[upNdown]

I don’t believe it closes the action for the original raiser

Right. Once middle position raised from $10 to $20, early position gets all his options available to him. There’s nothing the late position guy can do to change that.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

 

[demonnic]

hmm, I should read more carefully before answering these sorts of questions on my phone. Changing my answer after coming back to it and realizing I was confused. EP should have the option of raising as they're facing at a full raise from MP regardless of the jam behind it.