Negotiating at the Dentist (1 Viewer)

[12thMan]

You are like a big fluffly pettable caterpillar.

You are my adorable little troll with the posture of a jumbo shrimp.

As I said you definitely don't understand what an estimate is. If you give a customer an estimate and come in low and ask to ask to pay up more after that fact then of course you are going to get haggling. If you eat that cost then you are not giving estimates - it's a firm price. Either way your attitude towards your customers stinks so let's post your rants about your customers on Google review and see if it helps your business. At least the soccer mom's will know to stay away.

No bud, you 100% don't understand what you are talking about anbd are getting caught up in the semantics of the word estimate. I will repeat again my position for you, read it carefully: if you agree to a price before the work is done, have the service/professional complete the work, then try to negotiate a lower price after the fact when the bill is due you are in the wrong and are acting the part of a shitty human. Case closed. That's it. Feel free to disagree with me, I will take my side all day and feel great about it. As far as my customers go they are very happy, I assure you, that's the last thing you need to worry about. But I suppose you know better being 1000's of miles away and having zero clue of what how we even operate because that's how the internet works. I am perfectly ok with a username in Canada having a false idea of how my customers are treated, I've said my piece and clarified my stance multiple times now, my opinion is obvious and clear, I am not ashamed of it.

Seriously though, have a good day, hope this whole thing doesn't keep you up at night. (joke, obviously. not the have a good day part but the--- oh, never mind. It won't matter)

By the way, who said anything about soccer moms? Weird, but then again, this whole thread...

Exactly! A good friend recently went to a chain automotive repair shop. He was given an ESTIMATE that the work would take 5 hours and cost $X per hour plus the cost of parts.

He said go ahead with the work, they were done in 2 hours but still wanted to charge him the full price of the ESTIMATE. Don't call it an estimate if you are going to bill for that amount even if it takes less than half that time.

Again, semantics concerning the word estimate, call it a "bid" if you want, that more accurately describes what the price most people are getting is. Estimate is usually used because the price could go higher, parts that were not known to be needed or break during disassembly sometimes need to be added. And while I have zero idea what is going on in your friends situation or what was said I'm wondering if "flat rate" (how the automotive field bills and makes money from) and peoples confusion with what it means has anything to do with it.

If the shop said "We don't know exactly how long this will take, it could be up to 3 hours of labor and for that we will charge $85/hour of real time." Now, if they work on your car and it physically takes them 1.5 hours and when you get to the counter the bill is for 3 hours of labor OF COURSE "negotiating" the fee would be acceptable, even I would ask wtf.

But, if your friend went in for an "estimate" to get his brakes done (as an example) and the shop said " Parts will be $385, the job calls for 5 hours book time, and then we have our environmental/shop/supplies fee which is $15 bringing the total to....", then your friend feels like he should only be charged for 2 hours if that's how long they are physically working on the car he is in the "wrong". That is what's called flat rate (among other things) and it's how the automotive industry is built. When you are paying book time you are not paying for the physical time being spent working on the car, if a technician spent 5 hours physically working on a car when the book time calls for 5 hours the shop would lose money hand over fist. The technician wouldn't make money and the shop would close, simple as that 100% with out question.

Book time refers to not only the time it takes to do the job but also: the tools needed, the space and rent needed, the training/knowledge/professional experience required to do the job, etc etc etc. Take a brake job for instance, do you know the difference between the average person changing brakes on a car in their driveway while watching a youtube video vs. a technician that has done the job enough he could do it with his eyes closed while using a hydraulic lift and air tools? Book times takes into account the professional and everything that comes with it.


Again, for clarity:

If you're friend was told it was a fluid number and would be billed for actual labor time working on the vehicle he is obviously in the right to question their accounting of the job.

But:

If he was quoted an estimate based on book time and he feels he is being ripped off because it took them less time than what is printed out on the estimate he is in the wrong and he owes what the bill shows. I can understand him asking why, I do not think he is being a shitty human by not understanding flat rate and questioning it because lot's of people don't understand it, but yeah, he owes for the job and shouldn't feel ripped off.

Furthermore, and to my opinion on this whole matter:

If your friend is one of the minority of people on this planet that thinks it is ok to agree to a firm "estimate", have the work done, and then start negotiating a lower price after the job is complete and he is staring at an invoice he is being a piece of shit. Simple as that. It's not controversial. (I don't think that's what your friend was doing by the way, just trying to clarify my point, again.)

In my case, I was informed at the start of the potential for an $179 office fee. However, I was also told that the fee could be Much less or waived possibly (dependent on what the dentist had to do).

Imho no person on this earth should be making $10,000/hour from services they are providing me.

Again, and as I have said all along, there is nothing wrong with this. I wouldn't "expect" it to be free, but at the VERY least I wouldn't think the full office visit to be charged.

The one difference in my thinking though is I don't make assumptions of what people should make off me, it's not my place and it doesn't translate like you are adding it up. If I was in your situation and was charged the full bill after having paid thousands (a good customer in other words) for my kids braces I would be fucking FURIOUS, I would bring up what was said about how much it would be and how it might not be the full office visit, I would ask to speak to the dentist/orthodontist/whatever and explain my reasoning....but if they shoved that bill across the counter and said "This is what we are charging you" I would pay it and find a new dentist. It's outrageous and they are losing me as a customer but that is their choice, not much I can do about it.

It's the same reason we glue interior rear view mirrors back on for free for anybody off the street, the same reason my good accounts get rock chips filled in their personal rigs for free or lunch money, same reason we donate goods and services to get people free cars....it makes us feel good and the good will built doing that stuff is worth WAY more than anything I could charge them. Same with your dentist, if he wants to charge you the full deal he can because it's his "right", it's also opportunistic, petty, and shortsighted but it is his right. My right is to go somewhere else.








Anybody is free to their own opinion, mine is "trying to negotiate/hardball/bully a price that was agreed upon before the work is done after all work is completed is a shitty behavior.". That's what I have said from the begining and it is what I stand by. Have some fucking integrity if that's how you go through life. (anybody, I have no idea if that's even how posters in this thread operate)










One more thing while I'm sitting at my desk pretending I'm working and waiting for the tee time to come: @bergs I have no idea who or what you are referring to when you are talking about the "where are we going to post what we had for dinner or pictures of us with our shirts off" or whatever you said. I can only assume it means you don't like some of the off topic threads that others post in (it's been ten years since I would post a picture of myself with no shirt on, now you would have to blur the tits to run it on tv ), so why don't you try this: POST YOUR CONCERNS IN THOSE THREADS!!! Don't take little passive aggressive shots at threads or members on the board while in other discussions where said members that annoy you will never see them. Quote or tag their post so you can know they see it then let your concerns be known; alternatively you could simply ignore it, but whatever you do understand talking behind peoples backis a bad look. I don't get the whole "foodie" thing but I don't troll around, I just ignore those posts unless I see something I like or want to respond to, mind blowing concept I know. YOU ARE BEING A PUSSY BY BEING SO PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.

Be a man my little jumbo shrimp. It would be interesting to meet you, I was actually hoping you would show up at Tulalip when you were in town so I could slow roll your decapod crustacean self. I have a feeling you are actually a decent guy you just haven't learned that trolling on the internet is for kids. Your posts where you aren't trashing a stranger you will never meet or look in the eye are funny, thoughtful, and I agree with a lot of your positions. You never offended me directly in a political thread with any post because we didn't necessarily disagree in substance, just how you think you can talk to people. I assure you I am far from "sensitive", but I am hyper aware of the fact that talking shit on the internet is completely different than real life. I learned the lesson when I was 24, it's a pretty good story and ends with me getting a tooth knocked out so you would enjoy it. Have a good weekend and I hope you don't have to break up the Dunes set.




Love this board, love poker chips, and even love the members I disagree with. If you want to put me in some category because of my thoughts on people who display shitty tendencies so be it, that's life, I've had fun debating though.