Newer Apache China clay longevity (1 Viewer)

[dylanthepiguy2]

my metal slugged abs chips (discount poker shop) are significantly grippier than my jacks poker JPT ceramics (which are made of lube) and slightly grippier than the web/greek mold which are fairly slippery

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

My dice chips are about the same as the web mold

 

[BGinGA]

The laws of chip physics must cease to exist in New Zealand.

Put another way, you're out of your fucking mind. Extensive testing has shown otherwise.

 

[allforcharity]

My dice chips are about the same as the web mold

BLASPHEMY!

 

[Labrat]

My dice chips are about the same as the web mold

Sorry, but I don't believe this for a minute.

 

[Phoe9x]

Maybe you’re just an oily person?

 

[Huskerchipper]

My dice chips are about the same as the web mold

.....not even close

 

[RagingAZN]

@dylanthepiguy2 you’re on your own here brother!

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

I’m gonna have to test this myself from a more objective point of view and post the results!

 

[Cratty]

I was curious, made a small setup to test all of the sample chips I had lying around (unfortunately no mint standard inlay sized paulsons... don't kill me) - to get as a fair of a comparison as I could (pre-hooker juice).

Results... not perfect, but likely good directional:

Chip (39mm): Slip Angle (degrees)

• Plastic Dice: 14.8
• Showdown: 24.8
• Milano: 24.8
• Apache Majestic: 28.8
• Clay Composite Dice: 28.8
• Tina Web Mold: 29.9
• Tina Greek: 29.9
• Paulson Oversized Label (1in): 29.9
• Apache Dunes: 30.9
• Apache Casino Royale: 31.9
• CPC (~All Molds): 34.0

Note, I did have a couple 43mm Tinas lying around and tested quickly, both performed at 32.9 degrees.. not all that surprising with larger surface area.

Some chips had a bit of variation.. likely surface imperfection related, potential minor grease/etc.. but tried to find samples that represented more of the "norm" by trying out multiples.

Setup... raised and measured stack height of books until I found the height in which chips would not be able to hold any longer on the ceramic dealer button surface. Converted all dimensions to angles (after measuring:

 

[redrobin3]

Once we have one more repeated test with results we can add it to a journal and publish the findings. Nobel prize is in the cards.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I was curious, made a small setup to test all of the sample chips I had lying around (unfortunately no mint standard inlay sized paulsons... don't kill me) - to get as a fair of a comparison as I could (pre-hooker juice).

Results... not perfect, but likely good directional:

Chip (39mm): Slip Angle (degrees)

• Plastic Dice: 14.8
• Showdown: 24.8
• Milano: 24.8
• Apache Majestic: 28.8
• Clay Composite Dice: 28.8
• Tina Web Mold: 29.9
• Tina Greek: 29.9
• Paulson Oversized Label (1in): 29.9
• Apache Dunes: 30.9
• Apache Casino Royale: 31.9
• CPC (~All Molds): 34.0

Note, I did have a couple 43mm Tinas lying around and tested quickly, both performed at 32.9 degrees.. not all that surprising with larger surface area.

Some chips had a bit of variation.. likely surface imperfection related, potential minor grease/etc.. but tried to find samples that represented more of the "norm" by trying out multiples.

Setup... raised and measured stack height of books until I found the height in which chips would not be able to hold any longer on the ceramic dealer button surface. Converted all dimensions to angles (after measuring:

View attachment 1441735
View attachment 1441741

Good stuff!

Not saying I agree, but the Dice chips added weight might make them feel less slippery than tinas that have the texture worn off them. No-molds are very spinner-prone due to all the surface area, and they get way more slippery/unstable with use, barrels will fall over pretty easily after a year or two of use. Therefore, my dice chip game has sturdier barrels than my beginner-game no molds in full barrels. This is less of a dice-chip compliment and more of a damning of the no-molds.

 

[allforcharity]

I did this test before. Nobody regularly plays at an angle of greater than 0.5 degree. No angle shooter jokes, please.

 

[Cratty]

I did this test before. Nobody regularly plays at an angle of greater than 0.5 degree. No angle shooter jokes, please.

Of course.. but it should somewhat be a surrogate for frictional force. Main challenge obviously is chips represent ideals (i.e. new, no grease/dirt, etc).

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

Fascinating results @Cratty

Maybe these Spartan chips actually do contain some clay.

Also to add, I’ve just noticed that the Web mold and clay composite / ABS Spartan trips from discount Poker shop have similar static friction coefficient, but the dynamic friction coefficient seems lower on the web mold (shouldn’t be too worn as I haven’t used either of these chips that much). In other words, in my hands, once the chips start sliding around, the web mould wants to keep sliding, but the Spartans constantly resist movement constantly.

You wouldn’t see this in the results of the angle test, as that would only measure static fiction

 

[BGinGA]

I was curious, made a small setup to test all of the sample chips I had lying around (unfortunately no mint standard inlay sized paulsons... don't kill me) - to get as a fair of a comparison as I could (pre-hooker juice).

Results... not perfect, but likely good directional:

Chip (39mm): Slip Angle (degrees)

• Plastic Dice: 14.8
• Showdown: 24.8
• Milano: 24.8
• Apache Majestic: 28.8
• Clay Composite Dice: 28.8
• Tina Web Mold: 29.9
• Tina Greek: 29.9
• Paulson Oversized Label (1in): 29.9
• Apache Dunes: 30.9
• Apache Casino Royale: 31.9
• CPC (~All Molds): 34.0

Note, I did have a couple 43mm Tinas lying around and tested quickly, both performed at 32.9 degrees.. not all that surprising with larger surface area.

Some chips had a bit of variation.. likely surface imperfection related, potential minor grease/etc.. but tried to find samples that represented more of the "norm" by trying out multiples.

Setup... raised and measured stack height of books until I found the height in which chips would not be able to hold any longer on the ceramic dealer button surface. Converted all dimensions to angles (after measuring:

View attachment 1441735
View attachment 1441741

Good start, but few players stack their chips on top of ceramic buttons.

Using chip-on-felt and chip-on-chip tests along with stack topple testing will generate more accurate and useful results.

 

[Cratty]

Good start, but few players stack their chips on top of ceramic buttons.

Using chip-on-felt and chip-on-chip tests along with stack topple testing will generate more accurate and useful results.

Yeah, the view I had was it was a control surface and can be used as a comparative measure. Two chips of one type also yielded similarish results, but didn't control as much for chip-to-chip variation (exasorbated) when using two (fixed and slide chip). In the end, it's really just intended to be a directional test considering there was no chip wear, grime, etc.. where the differences will likely truly shine.

But hey, if there's a performance difference someone greatly sees as off, would love to refine a test around a smaller focused group/A-B. Frankly to do it right you'd likely need to get a few dozen samples of each chip type of varying age/wear/grime, and run a array of tests and plot out everything.

But I do think you're right in that some of the chip types will perform better on alternate surfaces.. may be worth playing around with a modified setup to test all that out.. but may be too much of a time suck.

Edit.. what might be a good test actually would be putting different stacks on a lazy Susan (with bottom chip adhered to the surface) and rig it so that slowly ypu ramp up speeds until each stack slips one by one. Run it a few times and see which stacks slip at what speed. I have a couple in the house but not as smooth as I'd want them to be for a test though.

 

[Cratty]

Well, tried a new setup with my 6 year old.. we thought it would be a fun quick science project.

2 findings - the setup stinks, and CPCs are the best. All other data is bad because of point one.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12w0UKqTLeq4JbMEN9aEwkQb5uppzb5hp/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[redrobin3]

I love the mad scientist vibes from the motor running alongside the chaos as they fall off.

 

[BGinGA]

A simple increasing angle test using 10+ chip stacks with the base chip anchored is the best indicator, imo. There are a number of ways that the height of the platform can be manipulated incrementally, allowing calculation of the corresponding angle at failure (both just the top chip and either 1/2- or full-stack topple).

A swing hammer table-bump test can also indicate stack stability (aka chip-to-chip surface friction under load) and can be constructed talapply a series of hammer blows of increasing strength.