Online Final Table Hand in Blinds Short-Stacked (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Martino]

We were chipleader early in the tourney, and down to 11 players we are 3rd in chips (top 5 get paid) and get involved in a huge pot 5-handed where we raise from 2K to 5K with KK, the BB overshoves around 65K and we snap, he has 99 and just binks an A97 flop.

That made us short-stacked, but we kept shoving and surviving so we've made it to the final table, albeit short-stacked, but with enough chips to still make a run at it.


What do you guys do here? We have zero info on the raiser, the cold-caller is labeled a DOOFUS (limped 57 offsuit, then called off his stack. 89 offsuit calls two shoves because he has a ton of chips)

 

[Geremie]

Rip it! YOLO!

 

[Josh Kifer]

Fold

 

[Josh Kifer]

IM GLAD THIS IS CLEAR.

 

[Geremie]

View attachment 725035IM GLAD THIS IS CLEAR.

Thanks for your blinds

 

[Josh Kifer]

Thanks for your blinds

Oh yeah, let's push short stack against a raise and just go home early.

Without a tumbler.

 

[davislane]

We were chipleader early in the tourney, and down to 11 players we are 3rd in chips (top 5 get paid) and get involved in a huge pot 5-handed where we raise from 2K to 5K with KK, the BB overshoves around 65K and we snap, he has 99 and just binks an A97 flop.

That made us short-stacked, but we kept shoving and surviving so we've made it to the final table, albeit short-stacked, but with enough chips to still make a run at it.


What do you guys do here? We have zero info on the raiser, the cold-caller is labeled a DOOFUS (limped 57 offsuit, then called off his stack. 89 offsuit calls two shoves because he has a ton of chips)

View attachment 725031

I'm inclined to fold. better spots to get it in. what are the payout figures? that might influence my decision making also.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I'm inclined to fold. better spots to get it in. what are the payout figures? that might influence my decision making also.

Payouts ranged from $70 on the low end to $230 on the high end. Only about 33 runners in this event, buyin was $22 plus a $5 add-on and that's all we're in for.

 

[davislane]

Payouts ranged from $70 on the low end to $230 on the high end. Only about 33 runners in this event, buyin was $22 plus a $5 add-on and that's all we're in for.

Ok so its not some $3 crapshoot. $230 is not insignificant. I would lean towards a fold only because im taking it a bit serious if i wasnt i would be tilt ripping it in

 

[grebe]

I think we have enough fold equity to rip it here. We need some chips to make the money. If we go out, so be it.

"In order to live, you must be willing to die". That is my MTT mantra.

 

[StewbieDoo]

ICM wise I believe it’s a disaster to shove and calling 2bb off a 10bb stack is way too torchy here. I agree folding here and looking for better spots to pick up chips. If the field is as weak as you say, no need to shove and hope when your A could easily be dominated here.

 

[Legend5555]

It's on Fox, so I don't believe you have any fold equity. I fold.

 

[Anthony Martino]

ICM wise I believe it’s a disaster to shove and calling 2bb off a 10bb stack is way too torchy here. I agree folding here and looking for better spots to pick up chips. If the field is as weak as you say, no need to shove and hope when your A could easily be dominated here.

Only 5 spots are paid. We are 9-handed and currently 8th in chips at the table

I don't believe ICM is a consideration just yet, we need to 3x our current stack to make the money

 

[davislane]

result?

 

[grebe]

Ok so its not some $3 crapshoot. $230 is not insignificant. I would lean towards a fold only because im taking it a bit serious if i wasnt i would be tilt ripping it in

Not a great way to look at strategy.

I know AT is not the hand we want, but we have about as small of a stack as we can have and still have decent fold equity. Our button is chip leader's BB, and he has a massive stack and can afford to look us up. Both our villains are in a precarious spot as middle stacks....especially the original raiser not knowing what the giant fish will do. If not now, when? We have 12 BB's left (with antes coming out as well). This isnt 100 BB poker. You stick around waiting for a better spot...until when? When you have 8 BB's? 6? 2? You are the short stack, you have nothing to lose. Play like it.

Get it in, if you get snapped off by AK, well good game. Go to bed and dream about what if them kings held up.

 

[Anthony Martino]

result?

Want to give more time for responses

 

[Frogzilla]

Wait never mind we close the action

Just call

 

[Legend5555]

Wait never mind we close the action

Just call

In a vacuum against knowledgeable players, I might agree, if not want to jam. But this is a site where you can really just exploit them by saving your chips and just finding better spots IMO. I'd hate to dust off 2bb of our 13bb stack when I know people will often fold too much to our open jams and when people don't open nearly enough hands and thus tend to have stronger ranges when they raise. Maybe I'm off base on this strategy, but it's served me well in these minefields.

 

[StewbieDoo]

Only 5 spots are paid. We are 9-handed and currently 8th in chips at the table

I don't believe ICM is a consideration just yet, we need to 3x our current stack to make the money

If I can be provided with the exact payouts by position, I can run this situation and tell you ICM wise what the correct decision is. Without a doubt, for CEV, this is an easy Jam. However, 4 off the money in a small field event where you hold an edge does not seem like the best spot to be jamming ATss into a raise and a call but I believe ICMizer will have it being pretty close

 

[Anthony Martino]

If I can be provided with the exact payouts by position, I can run this situation and tell you ICM wise what the correct decision is. Without a doubt, for CEV, this is an easy Jam. However, 4 off the money in a small field event where you hold an edge does not seem like the best spot to be jamming ATss into a raise and a call but I believe ICMizer will have it being pretty close

Just rough-guessing on payouts here:

5th - $70
4th - $105
3rd - $150
2nd - $195
1st - $230

 

[grebe]

If I can be provided with the exact payouts by position, I can run this situation and tell you ICM wise what the correct decision is. Without a doubt, for CEV, this is an easy Jam. However, 4 off the money in a small field event where you hold an edge does not seem like the best spot to be jamming ATss into a raise and a call but I believe ICMizer will have it being pretty close

I agree it's pretty close. How do you feel about the cold caller that Hero has labeled "DOOFUS" being in the hand? I think this puts original raiser in a uniquely tough spot if we jam. If we can get raiser to fold, that is a HUGE win. We are surely DOMINATING the range of DOOFUS. The potential for dead money makes this a juicy proposition. If we do get called, we are surely going for the triple up. I don't think a guy that stacks off with 57 is folding anything if V1 calls.

I am still liking a jam.

 

[StewbieDoo]

Above is the ICMizer run on the situation including the payouts provided above. With the inputted ranges of HJ opening at 33% and CO flatting at 8% (this would be standard im assuming for avg/above avg players) this would show that ATo would be losing $2.23 in the long run with a Jam here. However, the one thing we need to look at are the ranges for the opening from HJ and the call from CO. If we assume the HJ is opening 30% of his range and we also note that doofus CO is flatting very wide this changes the calculation. In the previous example, the CO is only flatting 8% of his range but lets update that to about 50% based on the description.

Changing the range for the CO changes the equity significantly and I am assuming it is due to the dead money in the pot. With the CO flatting as wide as possible, this changes our profitable jamming range to include A7o and up and all suited Aces. The key thing here is what doofus is doing. With him flatting super wide it will be profitable to jam, with him out of the hand it is a tight fold.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you want to go through anymore. ICM has been a joy to learn throughout the pandemic.

 

[WedgeRock]

Folding 9% of your stack is better than losing 100% of your stack with ATos.

At best, your flipping to a hand like 99 or below or dominated by a bigger ace. What is he 3x'ing there that you beat?

Fold > jam, IMHO, but not by a wide margin.

 

[grebe]

Folding 9% of your stack is better than losing 100% of your stack with ATos.

At best, your flipping to a hand like 99 or below or dominated by a bigger ace. What is he 3x'ing there that you beat?

Fold > jam, IMHO, but not by a wide margin.

Any time we are flipping, we are winning in this situation because of dead money. If he shows up with 99, DOOFUS calls with whatever the fuck two cards he has, and we are even as low as 40%, this is still a great spot for us. We need %33 equity here with both calling. We are only worried about the hands that dominate us...AA-TT, AK-AJ. V1 has all these hands in his range....DOOFUS has NONE OF THEM (maybe AJ).

Also, say V1 does have 99. How great does he feel about it after a call and a jam....with a good possibility that he gets rejammed? We don't even need him to fold hands like this to be profitable, so the few times he folds a hand that has us beat is gravy on top. V1 without an absolute premium is in a very tight spot.

 

[Omar65]

I can't out-analyze the ICMizer above, but to my simple mind, after thinking about it, I'd shove it. Main reason is 4-5th place money is so small that to me, you're better off busting our here and getting another $22 in the next one because your bad-beat KK hand is likely going to hold up the next time. Just seems the stakes don't warrant the methodical "by the book" approach, but I'm just casual player, not someone whom gave up a steady job to do this full time and needs to pay bills.
I'm sure my thinking is super flawed, but f*$^ it, let's get some chips and win this thing or die trying.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Folding 9% of your stack is better than losing 100% of your stack with ATos.

At best, your flipping to a hand like 99 or below or dominated by a bigger ace. What is he 3x'ing there that you beat?

Fold > jam, IMHO, but not by a wide margin.

He's in the HJ.

He could be raising KJ, KQ, A8 suited, small pocket pairs like 6's that may not want to commit for half his stack, etc. Without any prior history with this player that's the range I'm putting him on (or better hands, of course)

 

[colter ripton]

He's in the HJ.

He could be raising KJ, KQ, A8 suited, small pocket pairs like 6's that may not want to commit for half his stack, etc. Without any prior history with this player that's the range I'm putting him on (or better hands, of course)

I agree. This isn't an under the gun raise, he could definatley have kq kj small pairs etc in his range here. I think its kinda close, but id most likley put it in here.

 

[WedgeRock]

Without any prior history with this player

This.

 

[Anthony Martino]

This.

What range do you assign a player raising from the HJ when it's folded to him with no prior info?

 

[StewbieDoo]

What range do you assign a player raising from the HJ when it's folded to him with no prior info?

No basic information on the player I would assume you have to say he is opening 20 to 30% of his range off that stack with your stack in the BB