Cash Game Optimal setup for 7 players of fixed limit? (1 Viewer)

[OzzieJim]

My suggestion:

75c button ante.
25c bring in

75c small bet
$1.50 big bet.

I'd go minimum 900 x 0.25 and 100 x 5

Ideal would be around 2100 x 0.25 and 300 x 5

Ideally you want your chips per bet divisible by 2 so 2chip/4chip (0.50/1) or 4chip/8chip (1/2) but I'd say for stud games this matters less because the ante and bring ins complicate nice even chops anyway.

The general rule for NL to Limit conversion is BB = 8xbb so a 0.25 big blind no limit game should have pot sizes similar to a 1/2 limit game.

Stud players bigger though so 6 x wouldn't be unreasonable.

I find sometimes keeping the limits smaller can actually be counterproductive. I have seen people torch 300 big bets in half an hour because we were playing 2/4 and they're never folding for a $2 raise pre. Larger limits can lead to more thoughtful play.

 

[Labrat]

Don’t buy anything right now. Play with what you have.

 

[Quad Johnson]

Honestly, don’t buy quarters. Don’t buy anything right now. Play with what you have.

I shifted a game from 10¢/20¢ NL to 50¢/$1 limit and it was an easy transition as the 50¢/$1 limit buy in ($25) was less than the 10¢/20¢ NL buy in ($30). We moved up to $1/$2 in four or five games. Even the stingiest guy wanted to move up.

Moving up for you might happen sooner than you think, so I would be careful investing in denominated chips for a new game now. Even if you start at your planned 25¢/50¢, you may hit $1/$2 before you know it, leaving you with a ton of quarters. Hell, they may hate it. I’d wait until it settles out before buying chips.

Given your set, there’s nothing wrong with making change until then. I used to play 5¢/10¢ limit with 5¢/10¢/25¢/$1/$5. It worked.

Each person buys in for 50 small bets. One table is 7 x 50 = 350 small bets. You have 400 quarters, so you’re good with a 1 chip/2 chip game 25¢/50¢ game using nickels for the 10¢ bring-in. Re-buy with the extra $1s and $5. You won’t have stacks, but the point is to see if there’s interest without investing too much.

Another option is the convenience of a table ante. Have the dealer throw in 35¢ for the table and call it even. Then you’ve suddenly got a ton more nickels than you need (ante quarter & 2 nickels) and no chips to buy.

Even if you shift to 50¢/$1 (25¢ bring-in), you can still cover it. Give everyone 52 quarters ($13) and 12 $1.

If the gang loves it, see where it settles out. If you start to get serious, think 50¢/$1 is right for you, and want to buy a massive limit set, I’d still recommend a non-denom set, which would allow you easily move to $1/$2 without buying another 1000 chip set.

I know, moar chips, rah! But seriously, I’d suggest you play it safe given that you’re starting a whole new game. (Just remember how you evolved in your NL set approach.)

Good advice. I'll do this for the start and see where it goes. Thanks!

 

[suchj0sh]

I'd go minimum 900 x 0.25 and 100 x 5

Ideal would be around 2100 x 0.25 and 300 x 5

 

[JustinInMN]

My suggestion:

75c button ante.
25c bring in

75c small bet
$1.50 big bet.

The idea of doing a rotating table ante in stud cash games comes up from time to time. Curious if you have done this in practice and how you handle players standing up and such?

I've posed this question from time to time in other threads (here and here) and I am still looking for an simple, widely applicable answer. The "tournament" approach seems to be best (player posts whether present or not) but doesn't seems consistent with most other cash game rules (an absent player can never post an ante or blind) so I am always asking for new thoughts on this question.

 

[Labrat]

The idea of doing a rotating table ante in stud cash games comes up from time to time. Curious if you have done this in practice and how you handle players standing up and such?

I've posed this question from time to time in other threads (here and here) and I am still looking for an simple, widely applicable answer. The "tournament" approach seems to be best (player posts whether present or not) but doesn't seems consistent with most other cash game rules (an absent player can never post an ante or blind) so I am always asking for new thoughts on this question.

I'm not at all a fan of a button ante in stud games.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm not at all a fan of a button ante in stud games.

I tend to agree, especially in cash. I do remember rotating table ante being acceptable in stud tournaments in the early 2000s, for very early rounds for the exact reason of avoiding introducing a small denom for antes only. This was long before the BBA took off in major NLHE events 5-6 years ago.

Still, in cash, I think individual antes make the rules around sitting out much simpler than trying to come up with a comparable rule that consolidates antes.

 

[Labrat]

I tend to agree, especially in cash. I do remember rotating table ante being acceptable in stud tournaments in the early 2000s, for very early rounds for the exact reason of avoiding introducing a small denom for antes only. This was long before the BBA took off in major NLHE events 5-6 years ago.

Still, in cash, I think individual antes make the rules around sitting out much simpler than trying to come up with a comparable rule that consolidates antes.

Well, I also think it spurs action because instead of just two people being invested in the hand (dealer and bring-in) everybody's got some skin in the hand thinking "what's another quarter?" (or whatever the bring-ins are at the time).

 

[warma]

The idea of doing a rotating table ante in stud cash games comes up from time to time. Curious if you have done this in practice and how you handle players standing up and such?

I've posed this question from time to time in other threads (here and here) and I am still looking for a simple, widely applicable answer. The "tournament" approach seems to be best (player posts whether present or not) but doesn't seems consistent with most other cash game rules (an absent player can never post an ante or blind) so I am always asking for new thoughts on this question.

I host play 2-chip/4-chip with a 3-chip dealer ante for stud games. It’s really clean and easy and a really minor step that moves the game faster (chasing 1 ante vs 6). The only drawback is it requires an orbit for fairness before you can drop it, which impedes a true dealer’s choice. Best part is, my games uses two chips: a betting chip and a value chip. PS. No one in my game cares about ante vs dealer ante- they just want to play poker.

 

[Nine_high]

The idea of doing a rotating table ante in stud cash games comes up from time to time. Curious if you have done this in practice and how you handle players standing up and such?

I've posed this question from time to time in other threads (here and here) and I am still looking for an simple, widely applicable answer. The "tournament" approach seems to be best (player posts whether present or not) but doesn't seems consistent with most other cash game rules (an absent player can never post an ante or blind) so I am always asking for new thoughts on this question.

Haven't used a table ante but if I did I'd have no heartburn posting for an absent player. They got to play all the "free" hands after all, so they are just paying their due, right?

 

[Quad Johnson]

The more I contemplate a non-denomination set the more I like it for limit and changing stakes. The question is, what is an economy friendly set easily obtainable? I don't think I've seen non-denom in China clays which is my usual.

 

[JustinInMN]

I host play 2-chip/4-chip with a 3-chip dealer ante for stud games. It’s really clean and easy and a really minor step that moves the game faster (chasing 1 ante vs 6). The only drawback is it requires an orbit for fairness before you can drop it, which impedes a true dealer’s choice. Best part is, my games uses two chips: a betting chip and a value chip. PS. No one in my game cares about ante vs dealer ante- they just want to play poker.

Fwiw we changed our dealer's choice to always be an orbit to get around all these issues.

That said my question is how to do you handle someone that is up from the table but due to post the dealer ante? Does it just go in no matter what?

 

[SteveEH]

The question is, what is an economy friendly set easily obtainable?

Like @warma said, I recommend using your current set until you figure out what stakes you and your players will be happy with.

Or...custom Tina hybrids for a non denom set?

 

[warma]

That said my question is how to do you handle someone that is up from the table but due to post the dealer ante? Does it just go in no matter what?

I always post blinds for folks that are up and away. I’d do the same for the dealer ante.

When I do, folks I who post for have always returned and checked their hand and folded/played accordingly. (No camping on the toilet, now.)

The dealer ante (3 chips in a 2 chip/4 chip game) is kind like a short-term, no-interest loan and just simplifies the collection/payment process. When folks are away for a while, it’s really the others at the table are over-posting, not the missing player. Posting the dealer for a missing player is really just paying the others back for their previous posts.

But seriously… skip a few hands and pay a full ante? They pay an extra chip. Leave early and miss a blind? They avoid paying a chip. At the 5¢-50¢ at the rates discussed above… eh. If it were $1K/$2K, then that’s money, but probably not material to the player (ask Krish). If someone’s going to be a sticker about tossing in an extra 5¢-50¢, then I’ll start charging them $50 for the food and premium whiskey I provide.

Hopefully it encourages folks to stay and play!

 

[OzzieJim]

Button ante in stud is really for two things:

1. Speed of play. It is very tilting to have to remind 6/7 people to put their ante out.

2. Fewer denominations. Realistically if you’re posting individual antes you need a chip smaller than the betting chip. Or else you have a weird structure where there’s already more than a big bet in the pot. You might get away with it in a 4/8 setup.

In terms of players sitting out:

First orbit, their ante is posted whether they are at the table or not. After one orbit, when they come back they can choose to pay the ante for the next hand or wait until the button is back on them. Exactly the same way we handle blinds.

 

[Quad Johnson]

Going back to this and chatting with my buddy that is our dealer and utilizing the chips I have we've agreed to this format based on the feedback of you fine folks.

75c button ante
25c bring in, 50c to complete
50c on early streets
$1 on later streets

$20 buy in.

I can use the chips I have and everyone would get $10 in quarters and $10 in $1s. Not bothering with nickels.

Looking forward to playing something different for a change.

 

[SteveEH]

Going back to this and chatting with my buddy that is our dealer and utilizing the chips I have we've agreed to this format based on the feedback of you fine folks.

75c button ante
25c bring in, 50c to complete
50c on early streets
$1 on later streets

$20 buy in.

I can use the chips I have and everyone would get $10 in quarters and $10 in $1s. Not bothering with nickels.

Looking forward to playing something different for a change.

20 big bets probably isn't enough for the night. I'd double the buy in to $40.

 

[JustinInMN]

$20 buy in.

20 big bets probably isn't enough for the night. I'd double the buy in to $40.

In a fixed limit game, there is no reason to put a cap on buy in amount since there are no all ins unless someone has less than one bet.

$20-$40 is probably a good "suggested amount" but there is no reason to make a rule on a max. 5-10x the big bet is usually a good rule for a minimum buy in.

 

[allforcharity]

5-10x the big bet is usually a good rule for a minimum buy in.

Really? I thought guidelines were more like 25 big bets, i.e. $100 in a $2/$4 game, rack of $1s each?

 

[JustinInMN]

Really? I thought guidelines were more like 25 big bets, i.e. $100 in a $2/$4 game, rack of $1s each?

I only meant 5-10 big bets was common for a RULE regarding a MINIMUM buy in most places I have played limit. If we are speaking strategically, you are right 20-25 big bets is a good starting place. (And you should usually reload whenever you drop below 10-12 or so)

So yes, you should do more than the minimum, now we need to hear from this guy.

 

[SteveEH]

If we are speaking strategically, you are right 20-25 big bets is a good starting place. (And you should usually reload whenever you drop below 10-12 or so)

So yes, you should do more than the minimum, now we need to hear from this guy.

This is why I recommended 40 big bets. Set expectations with the players or risk getting short handed 1/2 through the night cause buddy only brought 20.

 

[BGinGA]

I've always bought in for 50 big bets, not needing to reload if I hit a couple of big losing pots. Helps me retain that "I'm rich! I'm rich!" feeling, illusionary as it may be....

 

[SteveEH]

I've always bought in for 50 big bets, not needing to reload if I hit a couple of big losing pots. Helps me retain that "I'm rich! I'm rich!" feeling, illusionary as it may be....

I do this too, mostly for moar chip on the table. Also if my nemesis buys in for 50 big bets, I buy in for 51