Our new health/fitness venture (3 Viewers)

[TheDuke]

Why is it so hard for people to read before posting?

Nutrition is mentioned in the program.

V1 has exercise recommendations and plans, nutrition recommendations to follow in V2.

 

[upNdown]

Sounds like a smart field to be in for sure, and it sounds like an idea that will appeal to a lot of people.
But if anybody's keeping score, count me among the group who's never willfully submitting his dna to anybody.

 

[CraigT78]

Sounds like a smart field to be in for sure, and it sounds like an idea that will appeal to a lot of people.
But if anybody's keeping score, count me among the group who's never willfully submitting his dna to anybody.

You know "THEY" already have it.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Sounds like a smart field to be in for sure, and it sounds like an idea that will appeal to a lot of people.
But if anybody's keeping score, count me among the group who's never willfully submitting his dna to anybody.

I already got it. Gonna start an auction to sell it.

 

[TheDuke]

No reason to poop on every post. Why is it so hard for people to read before posting?

Nutrition is mentioned in the program.

Additionally, plenty of gyms have predatory practices. They usually rate towards the bottom of the barrel regarding business ratings, open lawsuits, etc. Thw entire industry is literally predicated on non-use membership and pressure sales tactics, so not sure why poop on this and say just go to gym.

Two people have already posted with questions on the free membership aspect - one personally/anecdotally and one from the business perspective.

Lastly, dna/genomes/sequencing for sure impact every part of our lives. It may just be marketing fluff to entice consumers who buy into that, but there is a fundamental science it’s built on. Is it enough to gauge/direct your workouts? No, probably not, especially how it’s being done here. But might it be the newest thing or offering that someone uses to “trick” themselves into better shape? Sure!

If it’s not useful for you, something you see as a viable market/product, nor something you find value add for others, that’s okay! I would put myself in the same boat, but strange to post knee jerk reactions.

I’m mostly just curious as to the other questions asked and business aspect of it all. It’s amazing what people make money on these days - existing technologies and product roadmaps allow for such easy penetration to every market.

I just get annoyed when I see these expensive gimmick exercise devices. (Peloton, Tonal, Mirror, etc.) So I'm firmly in the skeptic category. They're all dumb. They're all overpriced.

This seems like pure gimmick. Tying a DNA test and AI (latest buzzworthy topic) with what is essentially a very expensive TV.

At least with Tonal you get a cable system to actually perform exercises. And Mirror is a ~3rd of the cost.

Where's the research tying someone's DNA to specific exercise routines?

I'd wager that if you ask a personal trainer to provide you a specific routine based on your DNA and they'd tell you to GTFO. What may actually be useful would be a fitness assessment, body composition test, disclosure of medical conditions, etc. to formulate a progressive exercise regime and a nutritional plan.

 

[Josh Kifer]

PCF- A new adventure every day you log in.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I just get annoyed when I see these expensive gimmick exercise devices. (Peloton, Tonal, Mirror, etc.) So I'm firmly in the skeptic category. They're all dumb. They're all overpriced.

This seems like pure gimmick. Tying a DNA test and AI (latest buzzworthy topic) with what is essentially a very expensive TV.

At least with Tonal you get a cable system to actually perform exercises. And Mirror is a ~3rd of the cost.

Where's the research tying someone's DNA to specific exercise routines?

I'd wager that if you ask a personal trainer to provide you a specific routine based on your DNA and they'd tell you to GTFO. What may actually be useful would be a fitness assessment, body composition test, disclosure of medical conditions, etc. to formulate a progressive exercise regime and a nutritional plan.

For sure, but it's a business venture not a non profit out to change the world.

And there's plenty of DNA aspects that are meant to be tied to what foods you should eat, what exercise you're more prone to, etc.

But yes, at the end of the day it's somewhat meaningless. If you are more apt to developing fast twitch muscles over endurance cardio, does that mean you should build up your resistance in a certain way? Possibly, but that's meaningless to almost 100% of humans. If you're supposed to work out in the morning or evening, does that really matter vs just getting active? Either you are not one of the .01% of professional athletes where this actually matters, or you are and have far more insight, assistance, etc. beyond this and a regimen that goes beyond anything here.

As I mentioned, it just helps the ooh and aah factor for consumers. It's a way in. No different than when the ancestral diet came about based on your heritage.

Gimmick exercise devices are just gimmicks for those that don't use them, or buy and let them sit. But plenty of people utilize and enjoy Pelotons, Tonals, Mirrors, etc. to great effect.

 

[ekricket]

Sounds like a smart field to be in for sure, and it sounds like an idea that will appeal to a lot of people.
But if anybody's keeping score, count me among the group who's never willfully submitting his dna to anybody.

You know "THEY" already have it.

You’re doing it wrong.
I subscribe to all those DNA things.
All I can find.
I send them different peoples swabs, I’ve got like 10 different genetic profiles in my name the government can look at any time they want.

The only way to combat information is to overwhelm it. Fill it full of crap - while you can. There will be a time when it will be harder, but now there’s nobody policing it.

 

[CraigT78]

You’re doing it wrong.
I subscribe to all those DNA things.
All I can find.
I send them different peoples swabs, I’ve got like 10 different genetic profiles in my name the government can look at any time they want.

The only way to combat information is to overwhelm it. Fill it full of crap - while you can. There will be a time when it will be harder, but now there’s nobody policing it.

I'm not worried. They've had my DNA since 1998 when I enlisted. Then again when they gave me the anthrax vaccine. And probably again when they gave me "malaria treatment".

They own me. It's just a matter of time before THEY activate the kill switch.

 

[Windwalker]

I just get annoyed when I see these expensive gimmick exercise devices. (Peloton, Tonal, Mirror, etc.) So I'm firmly in the skeptic category. They're all dumb. They're all overpriced.

This seems like pure gimmick. Tying a DNA test and AI (latest buzzworthy topic) with what is essentially a very expensive TV.

At least with Tonal you get a cable system to actually perform exercises. And Mirror is a ~3rd of the cost.

Where's the research tying someone's DNA to specific exercise routines?

I'd wager that if you ask a personal trainer to provide you a specific routine based on your DNA and they'd tell you to GTFO. What may actually be useful would be a fitness assessment, body composition test, disclosure of medical conditions, etc. to formulate a progressive exercise regime and a nutritional plan.

Skepticism is excepted, and absolutely welcome. In fact, it’s helpful as we continue to build the product. So thank you for that.

As some people have stated above, DNA can provide some very useful baselines around the type of exercise your body will respond to best, as well as provide a ton of usable information on your injury proclivities, your bone density, and even stress tolerance tendencies (which is useful in building programs that include both workouts and “work-ins” — meditation, yoga and breathwork).

For when we launch our nutritional guidance, DNA surfaces information like carb, protein and fat utilization, which can be helpful to build up macro-based plans.

But, DNA is just the base level of information. Biometrics are what truly help customize your daily plan on the system. How you slept the previous night, your HRV, and even your heart rate while working out modify your workouts in real-time on the system, which is pretty cool.

People get DNA reports already with fitness recommendations from all sorts of sources. They get biometric reports from devices like the Oura and Whoop. Our goal is to close the loop between these reports and real action. By activating a custom program, we’re hoping to capitalize on a couple of industries that have already paved the way, and help a bunch of people at the same time.

That said, it’s perfectly reasonable to think that the category is unnecessary and gimmicky. Every brand needs polarity.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Perthmike]

@Perthmike - you can finally loose that stone

Lose*

And half of that stone is already gone, abs will be back in no time lol, I'm the diet master.

Interesting idea @Windwalker, I find the DNA tracking part very interesting, and unlike the absolute specimens on pcf I'm not really worried about sharing my DNA. I'd be interested to see what the reports look like.

 

[CraigT78]

Lose*

I appreciate you.

 

[Payback]

Just read the privacy policy. Hard no for me based on this

"Genetic Information also includes the DNA reports which will be reported to you as part of our Services, and may be used for other purposes, as outlined herein. Alter is not a covered entity under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (“HIPAA”), and as a result no data provided by you is subject to or protected by HIPAA."

 

[CraigT78]

Just read the privacy policy. Hard no for me based on this

"Genetic Information also includes the DNA reports which will be reported to you as part of our Services, and may be used for other purposes, as outlined herein. Alter is not a covered entity under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (“HIPAA”), and as a result no data provided by you is subject to or protected by HIPAA."

What part of this gives you pause?

 

[BGinGA]

You’re doing it wrong.
I subscribe to all those DNA things.
All I can find.
I send them different peoples swabs, I’ve got like 10 different genetic profiles in my name the government can look at any time they want.

The only way to combat information is to overwhelm it. Fill it full of crap - while you can. There will be a time when it will be harder, but now there’s nobody policing it.

I had one company ask for my DNA, after I submitted a swab sample, they emailed me and told me I was a dog.

I replied back, "No, I am not a dog. I am my dog."

Never heard back. Woof.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I had one company ask for my DNA, after I submitted a swab sample, they emailed me and told me I was a dog.

I replied back, "No, I am not a dog. I am my dog."

Never heard back. Woof.

23 and Me keeps saying I need to dewormed. I thought this was America!

 

[CraigT78]

23 and Me keeps saying I need to dewormed. I thought this was America!

My 23 and me says part Chihuahua. I think there is some mistake.

 

[bergs]

I need a DNA test that tells me what my genetic disposition is towards certain drinks to help ensure I mix the right ones.

DrinkGENIE where are you?

 

[ekricket]

I need a DNA test that tells me what my genetic disposition is towards certain drinks to help ensure I mix the right ones.

DrinkGENIE where are you?

Get a hold of these guys

“How people perceive and taste alcohol depends on genetic factors, and that likely influences whether they "like" and consume alcoholic beverages, according to researchers in Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences .“

https://www.biospace.com/article/ar...h, we show,receptor gene the individual has."

 

[Windwalker]

Just read the privacy policy. Hard no for me based on this

"Genetic Information also includes the DNA reports which will be reported to you as part of our Services, and may be used for other purposes, as outlined herein. Alter is not a covered entity under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (“HIPAA”), and as a result no data provided by you is subject to or protected by HIPAA."

So, this may not be relevant to you, but neither 23andMe nor Ancestry.com, the biggest purveyors of DNA tests, are HIPAA compliant.

Here’s an interesting article that talks about why, and is good for a discussion on whether that’s needed.

The TLDR from that article is that HIPAA compliance is typically not required by companies that aren’t healthcare providers.

That said, we take data privacy very seriously, and have brought in someone who was the chief privacy officer at Nike, and a senior fellow at the Future of Privacy Forum to be our head of product. She’s been working on all of our responsibilities and practices. More on that in the coming months.

 

[bergs]

So the hope is that the DNA report provides enough relevant detail that it will compel the buyer to invest ~2-3K in the actual hardware?

Who’s the target customer from a demographic perspective with this? It seems like it’s a confluence of people that are committed to exercise and eating right but have plateaued with their weight loss efforts and aren’t seeing any more tangible results, and people that both believe in DNA testing and aren’t concerned about any potential privacy breaches. Feels like kind of a niche market - it doesn’t have the community / belonging feeling that Peloton tapped into.

Also kinda feels like you need the nutrition with the exercise recommendations because without one or the other, it doesn’t seem likely that people will see the quicker results they’re going to want with this kind of investment.

Example - pay $100 for the DNA test and change both the eating and the exercise habits and see fast results, want to avoid plateauing again, compelled to buy the more expensive package.

FWIW, I think a slightly bigger investment with an added feature of meeting virtually with a coach periodically to develop and encourage individualist eating and exercise plans makes it more compelling. Gives you kind of that sense of community / working with someone that Peloton has and helps keep use of the product front of mind.

 

[bergs]

^^ the coaching thing also lends itself towards a component of a subscription model and recurring revenue stream. HaaS - Health as a Service.

 

[bergs]

Actually, your competition isn’t Peleton. It’s someone using health insurance to meet with a nutrionist semi-regularly and getting a coach to work out with at a local gym.

It’d be interesting if this were the genesis of a larger opportunity where you used their DNA for other subscription-related purposes (proactive medical screening, identifying previously unknown predilections to allergies, etc).

 

[allforcharity]

You'll need to change the name if you market in German.

 

[Payback]

So, this may not be relevant to you, but neither 23andMe nor Ancestry.com, the biggest purveyors of DNA tests, are HIPAA compliant.

Here’s an interesting article that talks about why, and is good for a discussion on whether that’s needed.

The TLDR from that article is that HIPAA compliance is typically not required by companies that aren’t healthcare providers.

That said, we take data privacy very seriously, and have brought in someone who was the chief privacy officer at Nike, and a senior fellow at the Future of Privacy Forum to be our head of product. She’s been working on all of our responsibilities and practices. More on that in the coming months.

Thanks for articles. The privacy component is one reason I haven't used the other services as well. I'd love some information in my DNA and genetics, but don't care enough to get anything done at a doctor's office/hospital. Therefore at home would be my ideal, but given the current privacy laws I won't participate so I'll continue to wait as needed till laws catch up with advancing technology. Either way, I wish you the best of luck with the newest endeavor.

 

[Payback]

What part of this gives you pause?

The may be used for other purposes and not protected by HIPAA

 

[BarrieJ3]

Actually, your competition isn’t Peleton. It’s someone using health insurance to meet with a nutrionist semi-regularly and getting a coach to work out with at a local gym.

It’d be interesting if this were the genesis of a larger opportunity where you used their DNA for other subscription-related purposes (proactive medical screening, identifying previously unknown predilections to allergies, etc).

This is unfortunately where the gimmick aspect comes in.

There’s some very large, hard lines around this. Most things that would actually be helpful regarding DNA, snips, genetics, etc. they aren’t allowed to touch with a 10 foot pole especially in the US.

So value can be created, but they’ll have to focus it all around the more superficial aspects.

But then again what do we know, the most interesting aspects and concepts are things WW can’t share with us, and that’s the business side. Unless the group of dedicated folks are just a fun loving friend circle of venture capitalists, there’s no way 3 years was put into this without knowing what the anticipated strategy, membership model and usage rates, potential successful exits, and other aspects looked like.

I LOVE to listen in on those. It’s always amazing how people make money, with tech stacks today there’s almost 0 barrier to entry in so many markets. There’s just not enough time to do it all!

given the current privacy laws I won't participate so I'll continue to wait as needed till laws catch up with advancing technology.

Unfortunately you’re not going to see that, imo. Synthetic biology and DNA has come a very long way. It’s not difficult today to be able to produce your entire genome or get your dna printed.

Unfortunately, legislation is going to remain in keeping you the citizen uninformed and make sure that knowledge, power, and money stays with institutions and insurance companies.

 

[DZPoker]

But, DNA is just the base level of information. Biometrics are what truly help customize your daily plan on the system. How you slept the previous night, your HRV, and even your heart rate while working out modify your workouts in real-time on the system, which is pretty cool.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but my Garmin Enduro has been doing this for me for several years, or am I missing the difference?

(Not meant to be argumentative… genuinely interested as an ultra-endurance athlete!)

 

[BarrieJ3]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but my Garmin Enduro has been doing this for me for several years, or am I missing the difference?

(Not meant to be argumentative… genuinely interested as an ultra-endurance athlete!)

It’s the all in one biome, the fact that everything is integrated.

I don’t think an ultra-endurance athlete spending $500+ on single pieces of specialized tracking equipment are going to be the primary client here. I’d imagine that your ongoing feedback, incredible hyperfocus on endurance and recovery, and objective focused training is not remotely a fit for what is being offered here.

 

[DZPoker]

It’s the all in one biome, the fact that everything is integrated.

I don’t think an ultra-endurance athlete spending $500+ on single pieces of specialized tracking equipment are going to be the primary client here. I’d imagine that your ongoing feedback, incredible hyperfocus on endurance and recovery, and objective focused training is not remotely a fit for what is being offered here.

Let me rephrase- I’m a weekend-warrior ultra-endurance athlete with some disposable income. I think I’m the exact target audience to be honest.