PAHWM AA in position against aggressive opponent (1 Viewer)

[Jimulacrum]

It's probably a fair observation that Villain has something, but you can't assume that this $40 means you're beaten. Betting only 1/4 of the pot, especially after you just showed significant strength preflop, is practically begging your opponent to play back at you, or even to raise for value / pot protection with mediocre hands like a naked jack.

Shove over the $40. The board is too wet and the pot too large now to get fancy. Expect to be beaten sometimes, but to take down the pot or catch him with AJ or JT or something pretty often.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I think after being popped on the flop this is either a fold or a shove. Too many hands in V’s LAG range will raise like this. By calling you are gaining no information. Also if a LAG is faced with an all in shove here any combo draw is likely pot committed anyway for good and bad.

If Hero calls here I feel they are just looking for a scary turn card to feel good about folding. Only an A would make Hero feel better about their hand whereas a large number of potential turn cards make the board more scary.

I personally shove with AA in this spot. If stacks were significantly deeper a call for pot control would make sense. A reraise would tip off V to exactly what hand Hero has and could be used by V to push Hero off of AA depending what the turn and river bring.

 

[Jimulacrum]

If Hero calls here I feel they are just looking for a scary turn card to feel good about folding.

I cannot count the number of times I have seen players do exactly this.

Next round, some nasty card hits the board, and the person hems and haws before folding, with some quip like, "I can't call here."

(And then I scoop it and quietly muck.)

Building up huge pots and then losing your confidence and abandoning them is one of the biggest leaks in poker.

 

[warma]

Aces suck.

I pause a beat after your “mediocre hands” comment. Do they really have it or are they on a draw? Are they just throwing chips around? Are they trying to push you?

Do they really see you as a bit lose and lucky?

But I love screwing around from time to time and I love info, so I’m shoving here.

 

[dinosaur]

I would still want to get all the chips in there by the end. He might have us beat, but as mentioned above there are so many things he could be betting with.

Call flop.

Edit. I thought we were on the turn already. But I still don’t believe V.

 

[Burke]

I wanted to bet smaller on the flop since it since the flop favors his range. He cetainly has nut advantage over me. I wasn't surprised by the flop check-raise. Never considered folding, but I didn't see the reason to raise all-in as I figure I am unsure if he calls an all-in bet here with AJ, JT, KJ, QJ whereas he obviously calls with 108, JJ, 99, 77, J9. QQ and KK likely call.

Preflop:
UTG villain raises to $10 and folds around to hero on the button with
Hero (playing effective stack at $185) raises to $30.
Blinds fold. Villain calls.
Pot $61.50

Flop :
Villain checks to me.
I bet $15. Villain raises to $40.
I call

Pot: $141.50
I have $115 behind

Turn:
Villain checks to me
Action?

 

[JMC9389]

The obvious Q10 gets there.

I'd jam if the plan from the get go was to get all the money in anyway. Unless villain has exactly Q 10, they're not going to like that king. That card favors hero more.

 

[bergs]

$30 pre.
$45 flop.
When raised on flop, jam.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I wanted to bet smaller on the flop since it since the flop favors his range. He cetainly has nut advantage over me. I wasn't surprised by the flop check-raise. Never considered folding, but I didn't see the reason to raise all-in as I figure I am unsure if he calls an all-in bet here with AJ, JT, KJ, QJ whereas he obviously calls with 108, JJ, 99, 77, J9. QQ and KK likely call.

Preflop:
UTG villain raises to $10 and folds around to hero on the button with
Hero (playing effective stack at $185) raises to $30.
Blinds fold. Villain calls.
Pot $61.50

Flop :
Villain checks to me.
I bet $15. Villain raises to $40.
I call

Pot: $141.50
I have $115 behind

Turn:
Villain checks to me
Action?

Check and plan to call V’s river bet if it’s reasonably sized. After you just called the flop raise it wouldn’t make much sense to suddenly go big. Would be easy for Villain to lay down some overplayed hand and anything that calls has Hero in bad shape. I say after the flop call here Hero is hoping to just make it to showdown without committing their whole stack.

The check by Villain on this turn card after check raising on the flop smells very dangerous. A set on the flop would probably lead out. Semi bluffs would also lead out again on the turn.

If Hero bets even half pot here they are going to get raised all in by Villain and Hero becomes pot committed.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Shove when he checks the turn. Stack-to-pot ratio is 0.8. See my earlier remark about building up huge pots and then talking yourself out of them.

Villain's range is pretty wide. He may be checking now because he got there or because the check-raise was just a stab at the pot, and you stayed in, and now he doesn't want to gamble everything trying to steal it again.

There's enough ambiguity here that you can't fold a hand as strong as aces, and you really don't want to give a free card on this turn. There are worse spots, I suppose.

However this turns out, don't be afraid to be more aggressive next time. Bigger raise preflop. Bigger bet on the flop. As played, you're exuding fear, and that makes it hard to judge the range of your aggressive opponent.

 

[grebe]

I wanted to bet smaller on the flop since it since the flop favors his range. He cetainly has nut advantage over me. I wasn't surprised by the flop check-raise. Never considered folding, but I didn't see the reason to raise all-in as I figure I am unsure if he calls an all-in bet here with AJ, JT, KJ, QJ whereas he obviously calls with 108, JJ, 99, 77, J9. QQ and KK likely call.

Preflop:
UTG villain raises to $10 and folds around to hero on the button with
Hero (playing effective stack at $185) raises to $30.
Blinds fold. Villain calls.
Pot $61.50

Flop :
Villain checks to me.
I bet $15. Villain raises to $40.
I call

Pot: $141.50
I have $115 behind

Turn:
Villain checks to me
Action?

Pretty easy jam now. That K is probably an action killer, it looks like he has a J since he didnt continue thru on the turn. This card is probably his out to fold. I would not get cute with a smaller bet and allow him the right price to draw thin. Just put it in and hope he calls with a hand like QJ or JT.

 

[Saxplayer]

Well?

 

[Burke]

Sorry will update tonight

 

[bergs]

Guys, he’s still in the hand and 2 days is a long time to tank and stay awake. Let him at least get a cat nap in before he posts.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Sorry will update tonight

You're a busy man....let me finish it for you...

Spoiler

 

[Jimulacrum]

 

[Burke]

Ok this one is going to make you guys sick (not the results, just how I played)...thanks for the discussion though! Truthfully I think we have taken away the most from this already, but will continue as there are two more decisions.

Preflop:
UTG villain raises to $10 and folds around to hero on the button with
Hero (playing effective stack at $185) raises to $30.
Blinds fold. Villain calls.
Pot $61.50

Flop:
Villain checks to me.
I bet $15. Villain raises to $40.
I call

Turn:
Villain checks to me
I bet $25
Villain raises to $60
Action?

Pot $226.50
I have $90 behind

 

[JMC9389]

Shove. If he has it he has it.

Does this villain play trappy like this when he gets big hands? Check raising twice doesn't make a whole lot of sense on this runout.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

As played, it's time to lay down AA here. Villain's check raise on the flop and on the turn for pot building sizing each time should be very concerning. You are almost certainly drawing dead or thin. If you had spade flush outs it could be worth calling that turn raise but certainly not with 2 red Aces. A very experienced Villain could be taking this line with a bluff/semibluff to get a good player Hero to fold a better hand, but at these blinds and stack sizes that effort would entirely be -EV.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Check raising twice doesn't make a whole lot of sense on this runout.

It’s been said when someone’s line doesn’t make any sense, often it’s because they have the nuts.

 

[JMC9389]

As played, it's time to lay down AA here. Villain's check raise on the flop and on the turn for pot building sizing each time should be very concerning. You are almost certainly drawing dead or thin. If you had spade flush outs it could be worth calling that turn raise but certainly not with 2 red Aces. A very experienced Villain could be taking this line with a bluff/semibluff to get a good player Hero to fold a better hand, but at these blinds and stack sizes that effort would entirely be -EV.

A double check raise is very suspect. Alarm bells are going off if I'm hero that villain is bluffing or semibluffing with a middling pocket pair or AK seeing a second check raise. The villain's range here is still pretty uncapped, but even if the villain turned the nuts, he's still going to want to keep hero's bluffs and semibluffs in for one more street of value. If villain has it here, a smooth call to hero's leadout makes the most sense. Villain should not be afraid of flushes in hero's range on this board.

 

[JMC9389]

It’s been said when someone’s line doesn’t make any sense, often it’s because they have the nuts.

History between hero and villain matters here a lot. Would this villain get trappy with nutted hands or do they use their image to bluff and put other players in tough spots on this type of board? With no information other than a couple hours of observing each player with no previous hand histories, I lean towards the stickier side to get more information. I get the sense that there's another twist to this tale as we're still only on the turn...

 

[DirtyTIVA]

A double check raise is very suspect. Alarm bells are going off if I'm hero that villain is bluffing or semibluffing with a middling pocket pair or AK seeing a second check raise.

I agree that it’s very noteworthy. Only the end of this story will reveal if Villain has a straight or just a semibluff combo draw. I’m merely drawing attention to the fact that if I wanted my opponent to fold I would be raising a lot more than these massage bet sizings. 40 on 15. 60 on 25 when the pot is 140ish and my opponent only has 90 behind.

 

[JMC9389]

I agree that it’s very noteworthy. Only the end of this story will reveal if Villain has a straight or just a semibluff combo draw. I’m merely drawing attention to the fact that if I wanted my opponent to fold I would be raising a lot more than these massage bet sizings. 40 on 15. 60 on 25 when the pot is 140ish and my opponent only has 90 behind.

Then you have villain playing the meta game of "hero knows that I know that raising small and not getting it all in for value is very strong; maybe by doing this I can get him to fold the better hand"

In a vacuum, I agree that spade and straight draws are just getting it in on this turn, but I get the sense that the king didn't help the villain. Either he flopped it or he's bluffing.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I get the sense that there's another twist to this tale as we're still only on the turn...

I think the hand is over already from a decision point of view. $90 behind with AA facing a $35 raise into a $160 pot. Fold or shove. If Hero is ahead now they will likely be ahead after the river. If Hero is behind on the turn I don’t think even an A will change anything.

 

[bergs]

So ironically thing exact same hand happened to me today at The Gardens here in CA.

He had QQ. River was a Q. Grossness ensued.

 

[Gear]

I feel like the villain raised the turn bet because of its utterly ridiculous sizing. If I'm reading this right, there is ~140 in the pot and you bet out 25, not even 1/6 of the pot. What is the purpose of that bet?

It seems clear that Villain wants more money in the pot. Gotta ask yourself -- why? And while you're at it, ask yourself -- why don't you?

 

[Jimulacrum]

Advice is still to shove.

You've built up a huge pot that's more than twice the size of your remaining stack. It'd be one thing if you had a busted draw, but you have the best one-pair hand, and it's too strong to fold. Villain can have a pretty wide selection of (a) hands he thinks are best but that you beat, (b) hands that actually beat you, and (c) total bluffs or semi-bluffs with weak draws. It's too wide to assume he has to have two pair or better, when you're getting 2.5 : 1 on the call and your play has practically begged him to bluff at you.*

I couldn't even tell you the number of hands where I've raised people just because they made a small bet in a big pot, with no regard whatsoever for my own hand. To an aggressive player (which we're saying Villain is), it's like chumming the water. It feels like a scared player ready to abandon the pot.

You'll win some and lose some. There's nothing you can say with much confidence here because your line and Villain's line have both been weird.

Spoiler: *

And this is all on top of the fact that aces have a modest chance to counterfeit two pair if that's what he has.

 

[grebe]

I feel like the villain raised the turn bet because of its utterly ridiculous sizing. If I'm reading this right, there is ~140 in the pot and you bet out 25, not even 1/6 of the pot. What is the purpose of that bet?

This is the first thing to me that has made sense.

In my initial remarks, I said we are in an absolutely great position to make bank....we have an aggressive opponent with a big stack, opening 11X, we have absolute position, and we have aces. We need to get in as much money as possible into this pot.

You have fought that the entire way.

I really don't know what to do here, because this is a situation I would not find myself in.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

This is the first thing to me that has made sense.

In my initial remarks, I said we are in an absolutely great position to make bank....we have an aggressive opponent with a big stack, opening 11X, we have absolute position, and we have aces. We need to get in as much money as possible into this pot.

You have fought that the entire way.

I really don't know what to do here, because this is a situation I would not find myself in.

I really don't know who the villian is here, and don't remember the hand, but who the villian is matters.

@Burke , who was the villian? I won't disclose my thoughts.

Edit: It could have been one of 3 people. I think @grebe thinks it was John D, and that's my thought too, but I'm not positive.