PAHWM UTG+2 ~23 BB AQo (1 Viewer)

[TheOffalo]

I’m in a 4-table MTT, after the rebuy is over but nowhere near the money yet. As the subject says, I have ~23 BB w/AQo in UTG+2. Folds to me and I make it 3X. Folds to BTN who 3-bets to 8 BB.

SB and BB folds. I…

No BBA in this tournament, so only 1.5 BB of dead money in the pot.

(Not gonna drag this out too much. Already consulted a friend and agree with his take. But just wanted to get a couple other quick opinions.)

 

[BNads86]

I never play tournament. I want to say jam, but am interested in what actual tourney players have to say.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Whats average stack at the table? Youre shorter than button?

 

[TheOffalo]

Whats average stack at the table? Youre shorter than button?

Button has me covered: he is probably biggest or second stack at my table. I’m probably second or third smallest stack. Table of 10 players.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Are you willing to risk your tournament life on a coin toss? If so, jam. Villain could have almost anything (middle pairs, suited connectors, Axs, a couple of broadway cards, etc.) Him 3 betting you from the BTN doesn't really mean much, especially with a large stack, but AQo is pretty much a flip against a lot of his probable range. Although the top of that range might have you crushed

Personally I would flat call, but I'm not a great player. IMO call>jam>fold

 

[RagingAZN]

If you’re 2nd or 3rd smallest stack and still a way from the money, I think I’m jamming here.

In a vacuum, chip leader on the button could have anything. If he has us dominated with AA, KK, QQ or AK, that’s just how it goes sometimes!

 

[JMC9389]

Tough one. You're out of position and you're hoping for an ace or queen so you can jam. Button's 3! range is much larger while yours is a bit more capped.

You'd still be deep enough to find another spot but you're essentially pot committed with an SPR of < 1 if you call this.

Jam>>call>fold IMO.

 

[TheOffalo]

Seems like the wisdom of the crowd is leaning a little more toward jamming than calling. Interesting that not that many people are advocating folding.

In the moment, my initial thoughts are that V was using his big stack and position to isolate since the blinds hadn't acted yet. After they folded, I didn't think I had much fold equity jamming for 15 BB more into 12.5 BB, especially against a big stack. But I was also reluctant to fold AQo. So I decided to flat and reassess.

Flop is A76r. I...

 

[JMC9389]

Jam.

 

[TheOffalo]

Jam.

That is the obvious choice, so I won't keep you in suspense about that. I do jam, and I get called of course.

What hand do you think V flips over? Will reveal in the morning.

 

[springbox]

I'm no tournament player, but isn't 3x a large sizing for EP and no BBA? Makes it more painful to fold when you get 3b.

Anyways, I much prefer jam/fold to a call.

 

[TheOffalo]

I'm no tournament player, but isn't 3x a large sizing for EP and no BBA? Makes it more painful to fold when you get 3b.

I’m not up on the current metagame. I’m used to 3X sizing. Plus I thought EP would want to raise higher with more people to act behind. Shrug.

 

[LeLe]

I’m not up on the current metagame. I’m used to 3X sizing.

The BB stack & also if there is any short stack is what i usually rely on when deciding bet sizing

 

[MichaelBubly]

With 23BB assuming other stacks are shorter, I might size down a bit to 2.2-2.5BB. If you are shorter than most and the table is looser than probably favour the larger size.

But yeah, I think calling here is pretty horrendous.... You can't really fold even if you miss and you lose any fold equity you might have. I think you should probably be shoving. Unless you have a read to narrow the 3! range a fair bit. Ideally you jam and get a fold. If you don't think villain has a 3! fold and is tighter I would probably fold and wait for a better spot, but I would assume most semi-balanced players on the button have a reasonable amount of folds in their range here.

Although my finding of most reg home game players is that 3-bets are pretty heavily screwed towards AA, KK, QQ, AK unless I know them to be a more theoretical player which most aren't. So summarize further, if opponent knows how to play poker and does a reasonable amount of 3-betting, I jam. If opponent is not a strong player and very rarely 3-bets, I'm likely going to exploitatively fold and pick a better spot, although you're still probably fine to shove and hope you're flipping or in great shape against KQ or AJ.

 

[krafticus]

Coolered by AK? 89?

 

[RagingAZN]

Seems like the wisdom of the crowd is leaning a little more toward jamming than calling. Interesting that not that many people are advocating folding.

In the moment, my initial thoughts are that V was using his big stack and position to isolate since the blinds hadn't acted yet. After they folded, I didn't think I had much fold equity jamming for 15 BB more into 12.5 BB, especially against a big stack. But I was also reluctant to fold AQo. So I decided to flat and reassess.

Flop is A76r. I...

As played, I’m going for a check-jam here. Although there’s pretty much no fold equity, donking gives BTN a chance to find a fold.

 

[TheOffalo]

Flop is A76r giving me top pair, second best kicker. I jam, V snap calls, I turn over my cards, and V turns over…

… AA.

No straight or flush possibilities for me, so I am drawing dead and out of the tournament.

I guess I should have tank-folded to the 3-bet but I thought he’d be raising pretty wide. I figure if I flat and hit the flop then I could win against JJ-KK or AJ and chopping w/AQ. I’m only behind AK and AA. So I don’t think I’m a good enough player to fold here as I was thinking through the hand in the moment.

 

[JMC9389]

Nah, that's just a cooler.

 

[Taghkanic]

I think that you are correct, against a generic competent player, that his button 3bet range as the big stack is wide enough for you to call with AQ.

Just bad luck that you ran into the tippy top of that range and you had zero redraws when you hit the flop. Unless you had this guy ID’d as super tight, I think you had to play it like you did.

However there is a reason that tournament players refer to AQ as “Parking Lot.”

 

[springbox]

Certainly once you've made it to the flop, you're 100% getting it in. Would be a huge mistake not to with 15BB in a 17BB pot.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think fold pre is too nitty with AQo, assuming the BTN has a reasonable 3betting range. They can have 99 to JJ, some KQ, AT/AJ, and maybe a few low suited Aces as bluffs. Given that's the case, mixing between jamming and calling seems fine. Just an unlucky hand imo, unless you had good reason to believe BTN is playing very tight. Often the reason you 'can't get away from it' is because you shouldn't, because most of the time it's a winning play for you. Even a player who's raising too wide will occasionally have Aces.

 

[ngmcs8203]

This is a 2.5 open for me and a snap 4! jam. At 23BB you don't have room to mess around and unless you are looking to limp into the next few rounds, you need to find spots to double up. At least that's how I would play it against a competent button. Against the button their 3! should be wider than you might think. Sure, they're 3! range includes JJ+, but it should also include ATo+, A6s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 88-99 and even some smaller suited connectors like 65s and 78s.

Most low-stakes tourney players are not playing that wide, and have a tendency to not understand how wide they need to be 3!ing, especially in position.

So maybe given this context a flat is better. I am still going broke on that flop.