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PLO Strat Poll (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Anthony Martino
- Start date
I'm curious what the point of this is
Little man got in a disagreement and turns to internet for validation. It’s a tale as old as time.
I dunno, but I'm seeing two groups of PCFers I'd definitely like to play PLO with...
OP
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
It's a strategy post in the strat thread. I didn't want anyone listing their reasons for selecting answers yet, so that everyone could vote based on their own knowledge and belief
I'll reveal the reasoning for the answer I believe is correct at the conclusion of the poll.
Fair. I thought the answer was so obvious there must be something else going on but now that I see the distribution of votes . . . :shrug:
As long as the reasoning matches mine, then you are correct. Otherwise you are full of shit.
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Alright, glad to see so many contribute. Now on to the correct answer, which most of you got
Having the
is better for TWO reasons
The first and most obvious is that when you have the
you block your opponents from making the 2nd nut flush.
You want them to make 2nd best hands against you so they're more likely to pay you off
The 2nd less obvious reason is that you also hold the naked suited as well. If the 
hits the board and the flush is possible, you have a bluffing opportunity because you know no one else can have the nuts
Ideally you're at a table with payoff wizards who make a flush holding
and go nuts with it
But in the spots where certain opponents that are competent happen to be in the pot with you, the naked suited bluff can win you pots you otherwise wouldn't snag at showdown
Having the
is better for TWO reasonsThe first and most obvious is that when you have the
you block your opponents from making the 2nd nut flush.You want them to make 2nd best hands against you so they're more likely to pay you off
The 2nd less obvious reason is that you also hold the naked suited
as well. If the hits the board and the flush is possible, you have a bluffing opportunity because you know no one else can have the nutsIdeally you're at a table with payoff wizards who make a flush holding
and go nuts with itBut in the spots where certain opponents that are competent happen to be in the pot with you, the naked suited bluff can win you pots you otherwise wouldn't snag at showdown
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LeLe
4 of a Kind
I Curious so for double Suited hands , AcKcQdJd vs AcKdQcJd Which one will be better this way ?
Legend5555
Full House
I'm no PLO wizard, but this was pretty obvious to me. You don't want to block your opponents' 2nd best hands.Alright, glad to see so many contribute. Now on to the correct answer, which most of you got
Having the
The first and most obvious is that when you have the
You want them to make 2nd best hands against you so they're mote likely to pay you off
The 2nd less obvious reason is that you also hold the naked suited
Ideally you're at a table with payoff wizards who make a flush holding
But in the spots where certain opponents that are competent happen to be in the pot with you, the naked suited bluff can win you pots you otherwise wouldn't snag at showdown
It's the same with making nut flush with AKs in NLHE. Best you opponent can have is Q high flush now. It's certainly less relevant than in PLO as people aren't folding flushes nearly as often in NLHE, but it still matters.
Jake14mw
Flush
I voted that they were the same just looking at it quickly. But then when I saw the majority voted the other way, I thought about it some more, and came up with the first reason Anthony stated. Never thought of the second reason though. This was a good one, especially for a donkey like me. Thanks @Anthony Martino !
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
is preferable to 
because you make better flushes on the first hand and it's more likely your opponent makes 2nd best and can pay off
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Glad to help! I do recommend bluffing sparingly.
Ideally you don't want to be in a game with lots of bluffing opportunities, because that makes it less likely your opponents pay you off with 2nd best hands, which is where most of my profit has come from.
I want the guys who can't fold a straight when the board is flushed and paired, not the guys capable of laying down the King-high flush
The first and most obvious is that when you have the
phew i got it right. this seems so blindingly obvious, i was starting to worry it was somehow wrong lol. i can't believe 31% of folks here voted otherwise.
Frogzilla
Straight Flush
Realized one of these, not the other. Good summary.Alright, glad to see so many contribute. Now on to the correct answer, which most of you got
Having the
The first and most obvious is that when you have the
You want them to make 2nd best hands against you so they're more likely to pay you off
The 2nd less obvious reason is that you also hold the naked suited
Ideally you're at a table with payoff wizards who make a flush holding
But in the spots where certain opponents that are competent happen to be in the pot with you, the naked suited bluff can win you pots you otherwise wouldn't snag at showdown
Now for the real question…why is this a poll?
Yeah, yesterday I thought about it briefly, decided they were the same, and was done with it. Then this morning it came to me - you want the other guy to have the K high flush. Funny how that works - I don't know if i was just giving it another thought, or if the brain actually sorts shit out during sleep, but it's not the first time I've come up with an answer like that. Either way, there's some truth to the old saying - "sleep on it."
dmoney
Full House
Can someone help me understand? Is this a "playability" vs. "equity" conversation? I understand @Anthony Martino's arguments on un-blocking your opponents, but as a question of "better hand", I'm confused as to the answer.
In NLHE for example you might choose A5o as a 3- or 4-bet over A6o or A7o because the former can make the rare straight (i.e. is more playable) despite it not having the raw equity of A6o (i.e. A6 is a better % starting hand than A5).
Is my NLHE basis for this question an exact example of the trap NLHE players fall into when playing PLO?
In NLHE for example you might choose A5o as a 3- or 4-bet over A6o or A7o because the former can make the rare straight (i.e. is more playable) despite it not having the raw equity of A6o (i.e. A6 is a better % starting hand than A5).
Is my NLHE basis for this question an exact example of the trap NLHE players fall into when playing PLO?
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Not everyone has the same level of study or experience as everyone else, and many don't have experience in the mean streets of PLO either.
Shit, I remember when I first started playing NLHE Tournaments I thought K9 offsuit was a good hand, now I KNOW it's a good hand.........
To see the distribution of players who thought one way or another before diving into the discussion
Another reason is that the
It's about the possibility of you being paid off. When you have the AT suited instead of the AK suited, it makes it possible for your opponent to make the King-high flush. PLO is an extremely nutted game the vast majority of the time, and going to war without the nuts is often a long-term money burner.
It's much easier for your opponents to pay off with the 2nd nuts than it is with the 3rd or worse, so it's mostly about our ability for an opponent to get caught on the hook and reeled in.
Can someone help me understand? Is this a "playability" vs. "equity" conversation? I understand @Anthony Martino's arguments on un-blocking your opponents, but as a question of "better hand", I'm confused as to the answer.
It is More about which hand has the potential to make you more money.
A 3rd benefit (although small and not something that comes up often) is that if the board has
on it you know you have the nuts still by having a blocker to the SF. AKss on that same board has to worry about QTss and T7ss.
It is More about which hand has the potential to make you more money.
A 3rd benefit (although small and not something that comes up often) is that if the board has
on it you know you have the nuts still by having a blocker to the SF. AKss on that same board has to worry about QTss and T7ss.
I understand the potential, but I voted the same, I answered the question as stated, only read the question nothing else.
The question was not the odds of winning, it was 'Which hand is better'.
I certainty hope I don't come across as a prescriptivist. Its like saying something is 'good', context can lead to discourse
ekricket
Royal Flush
If your in these kinds of games your first argument about 2nd nut flushes is kinda moot. These kind of people will pay you off with a Q, J, or 9 high flush.
dmoney
Full House
This is sort of what I was thinking also, although I voted for AKss version because I assumed that its equity would be higher.
So would it be correct to say these distinct things?
-AKJT w/AK suited and AKJT w/ AT suited have the same equity - they are the same from that standpoint
AND
-It would be preferable in gameplay to have the AT suited version because it can block some opponent hands that beat you and un-block some opponent hands that you want them to have
I will cut you!But who plays PLO with only four cards anyway? Like seriously?
j/k
Playing Big O is like playing with wild cards, day and night Sir!
I think so. Equity-wise, both hands are exactly the same in Omaha.
And you could make the same argument (As10s is better than AsKs) in NLHE, if you knew the flop was going to be all spades, right?
But they're different games. In NLHE, since you only get 2 cards (and since you could often with with just top pair), of course you'd rather have AsKs, preflop.
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Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
You can be at a table with both players that will pay off and players capable of making laydowns
So the benefit still applies, as it will depend who is in the pot with you at the time
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