Pocket Kings - What's the strategy here? (2 Viewers)

[justsomedude]

Playing the other day in $1/$2, I found myself with pocket kings in middle position.

• Checks around to me and I raise to $20. Everyone folds except player to my right, who calls.
• Flop is 10, 5, 7.
• Player checks to me, I raise to $30.
• Player calls.
• Turn is a 2. I read this as a blank. Furthermore, there are no flush draws, and a don't think he has an 8,9 or 3,4 open-ender.
• Player checks to me.

Before I give away my action, I'd like to know - what's the "correct" or "best" move in this instance?

 

[Meddler2]

Stack sizes and villain history?

 

[detroitdad]

Stack sizes and villain history?

Pretty key information, especially the stack sizes.

With what I have, betting 65ish

 

[justsomedude]

Stack sizes and villain history?

Not much history - guy sat down about 6 hands prior to this, after I had been at the table 2-3 hours. He did fold on a previous re-raise when I had A-10.

I had about $180 total going into the hand, villain had a little over $225.

 

[Marius L]

Pretty huge open raise preflop to 10xbb. For calling here I would put him on any pocket pair, some good suited connectors like TJ 9T and 89. and some hands that didnt hit this board like AQ-AJ, and QK AT if he is a looser player. At this point you are only afraid of a set, and as i see it there are still other hands that you can get value from that you are ahead. As played with the pot already beeing so big because of the preflop betsizing i think you need to bet here, and i guess also call a shove because you are not in that bad shape against his range. You have very limited information, but i think you shouldnt give a free card to all the hands he can have like TJ 9T 89 QQ JJ 99 88 that might have called on this flop.

 

[detroitdad]

I'll stay with the 65 bet

 

[DrStrange]

The suits could be important . . . the positions and actions are a little unclear - I can't see how the action can check around to Hero, must be folds. Since hero has position on villain, the villain must be in the blinds.

Hero created a ~$40 pot with $160 left behind. The SPR is 4 on a 'safe' flop. Hero is committed to playing for stacks vs an unknown villain.

Flop bet is $30 into a $40 pot ----> 75% pot. Seems about right, though Hero would have been better served with a pot sized bet since that sets up a pot sized turn shove.

Hero gets a safe looking brick on the turn, The pot is $100, Hero has $130 left. I think I would just over bet the pot and jam all-in.

DrStrange

 

[Meddler2]

Doesn't seem likely he would have checked pocket aces PF but what the hell he calling with? Shove and hope no trips. reload.

 

[justsomedude]

So...

I shove a full barrel ... $100

Villain shoves and puts me all in for my last $10-$20 ish.

Bastard had 10, 5 off suit. Hit his two pair on the flop. I was ready to go all Hellmuth on him for calling a raise preflop. I needed the board to pair or hit a two-outer K on the river.

River was an Ace.

I was so pissed I couldn't reload. I packed it in and called it a night. But I don't think I did anything wrong. Did I?

Idiot from Northern Europe.

 

[DrStrange]

You didn't sacrifice a live chicken before the game and smear its blood over your left arm.

Other than that, you did fine.

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

You should always fold just a pair of kings to two pair.

 

[Marius L]

nothing wrong there. just go back next time and hope to see the same guy if he keeps playing like that

 

[Shaggy]

The only thing you did wrong was not reload. Cool your head first.

 

[Mr Tree]

You didn't sacrifice a live chicken before the game and smear its blood over your left arm.

Other than that, you did fine.

DrStrange

Always find new leaks in my game in these threads.

 

[bivey]

been there and done that. ugh, hate the feeling.

 

[Meddler2]

Same happened to me last week. $1/2 game. My AA $10 PF raise lost to Q2o. Flop was Q26. Shove, call, reload. Same guy lost his ass last night (and then some

You're PF bet should have gotten the normal player to fold. Guy got lucky; simple as that. Too bad you didn't have any prior history vs villain. Might have found a fold somehow.

 

[thorwilliam]

Same happened to me last week. $1/2 game. My AA $10 PF raise lost to Q2o. Flop was Q26. Shove, call, reload. Same guy lost his ass last night (and then some

You're PF bet should have gotten the normal player to fold. Guy got lucky; simple as that. Too bad you didn't have any prior history vs villain. Might have found a fold somehow.

Found a fold for $10-$20 more in a close to $400 pot?

 

[Anthony Martino]

Playing the other day in $1/$2, I found myself with pocket kings in middle position.

• Checks around to me and I raise to $20. Everyone folds except player to my right, who calls.

It can't check around to you, because the hand just started and the players to act in front of you must either call the $2 BB or fold their hands. Also, your raise size is way too large, should be in the $8-12 range at 1/2 NL in my opinion, given no other limpers. No, you say the player to your right called, and since you were in middle position this player was not in the blinds, thus it would help to know how many players limped to determine the proper raise size.

• Flop is 10, 5, 7.
• Player checks to me, I raise to $30.
• Player calls.

You didn't raise to $30, you bet $30. You can only raise if there has already been a bet that you are increasing. As far as your bet sizing on the flop goes, seems ok.

• Turn is a 2. I read this as a blank. Furthermore, there are no flush draws, and a don't think he has an 8,9 or 3,4 open-ender.
• Player checks to me.

Before I give away my action, I'd like to know - what's the "correct" or "best" move in this instance?

As stated based on the information you provided regarding stack sizes, it IS a blank and you can't really get away from your hand at this point given stack and pot sizes. As it turned out, note that this guy will limp-call raises with T5 (was it s00000ted?) and plan to profit from that in the future.

 

[Nbk]

Imho with your overbet preflop I would call with any hand.
Because you just scream you have a big pair. So I call with any hand hoping to hit 2 pairs and stack you. I just risk the preflop call amount because im out if I dont hit. No big decision to make. But telling me what is your hand you put your whole stack at risk.

And also on the flop I always say that if all the chips go in the center of the table... a single pair is rarely enough.

So I think dont give away your hand preflop. Make standard bets for deception. And on the flop dont get married to your big pair.

NL is not only a game of odds and stats. It is above all a game of information and psychology.

 

[jbutler]

Imho with your overbet preflop I would call with any hand.
Because you just scream you have a big pair. So I call with any hand hoping to hit 2 pairs and stack you. I just risk the preflop call amount because im out if I dont hit. No big decision to make. But telling me what is your hand you put your whole stack at risk.

And also on the flop I always say that if all the chips go in the center of the table... a single pair is rarely enough.

So I think dont give away your hand preflop. Make standard bets for deception. And on the flop dont get married to your big pair.

NL is not only a game of odds and stats. It is above all a game of information and psychology.

Over time you will go broke making a call that size preflop given stack sizes. NL might not be "only a game of odds and stats" but unless you take heed of the odds and stats, you are in a world of trouble.

 

[Nbk]

Over time you will go broke making a call that size preflop given stack sizes. NL might not be "only a game of odds and stats" but unless you take heed of the odds and stats, you are in a world of trouble.

I know the 49:1 odds I would call anyway

 

[jbutler]

I know the 49:1 odds I would call anyway

I guess I will refer people to this thread when they complain the games have dried up.

 

[Nbk]

I know the 49:1 odds I would call anyway

Question is it better in that spot to call with any 2 as I said. Or reraise with AK being a big dog?

 

[Nbk]

I guess I will refer people to this thread when they complain the games have dried up.

Everybody has to be someone s fish lol
But Yes the games have dried up!

 

[Nbk]

Everybody has to be someone s fish lol
But Yes the games have dried up!

édit: i misread i thought they had $400 stacks. So i dont call with any 2. Just small pairs.

 

[jbutler]

édit: i misread i thought they had $400 stacks. So i dont call with any 2. Just small pairs.

Just curious: what is your threshold? You'll call more than 10% of the raiser's stack on a 49:1 shot where you rate to have a 20:1 return (most optimistically), but a 9:1 return (again, most optimistically) is for suckers?

@justsomedude I don't want to pretend that I'd have gotten away from this a majority of the time, but I would consider your bet sizing on the turn. What range are you targeting with a pot-sized bet there? If you didn't think he had a straight draw, then obviously you're looking to get paid by made hands. But what made hand that you beat is likely to put in $100 in that spot?

Even if the villain has what you most want him to have here - JT/QT/KT/AT - I don't think you're likely to get him to call $100 on the turn. Plus, a lot of guys will call a flop there with something like 67/78/79. In that respect the turn is bad for you because it doesn't give them more equity to encourage them to make a losing call.

In this case you have little to go on given your lack of history with the villain, so I would probably try to target a wide value range and bet something like $40. It's cheap enough that you'll get a lot of 7s to come along and almost all 10s. You can evaluate the river, but you'll be looking at a similarly proportioned bet a lot of the time to get called by those same hands again.

 

[Nbk]

I never used the word sucker i think. My threshold: when i see i donk bet preflop, i try to stack him. Also i wanted to say that $20 is notre good preflop because appart from fishes like me, you will only get action with AA in your pot QQ if you are lucky. Sorry with all my respect this overbet shows you are afraid to play your Kk after the flop.

 

[jbutler]

My threshold: when i see i donk bet preflop, i try to stack him.

If a donk makes a bet that causes you to make a losing play, you might want to ask yourself: who is the donk?

 

[Nbk]

If a donk makes a bet that causes you to make a losing play, you might want to ask yourself: who is the donk?

if Nietzsche plays poker i have to shut up and go to bed

 

[mipevi]

Idiot Northern Europeans gonna tilt you every time!