Poker Hand Rankings (2 Viewers)

[bigdonkey]

Correct. Which also makes statistical sense... There are only 40 ways of making a natural straight flush, but over 2500 ways to make a wild one.

According to the rules we were playing, yes. (and again, this makes sense mathematically if you are going to make a distinction between natural and wild hands. There are 624 ways to make natural quads, but over 30k wild).

Obviously that's not the rule in all wild card games, but it was in the game we were playing.
As it happened we had multiple cases of wild straight flushes and wild quads over wild quads but no natural quads or straight flushes all night.

If it's based on mathematics, does a natural 4-of-a-kind (624 ways) beat a wild straight flush?

 

[Goosefraba]

If it's based on mathematics, does a natural 4-of-a-kind (624 ways) beat a wild straight flush?

In the rankings of natural over wild then a wild straight flush would beat a natural 4 of a kind

 

[Mandos]

If it's based on mathematics, does a natural 4-of-a-kind (624 ways) beat a wild straight flush?

It should in theory, but it would have been even more confusing for players and I might have had a mutiny if I tried to change that so I left it alone. I based my rules loosely on the deuces wild rules used by the lodge in this video:

 

[chippitydoodah]

I say down with the royal flush! It’s just the highest straight flush, not a separate ranking. I realize most have ranking charts make this (non)distinction, but that doesn’t mean you have to. Eliminate that line, I say!

You don’t include steel wheel on your chart. You don’t have a line entry to show that four aces are better than four tens. Or more significantly, you don’t have an entry to show that aces full of threes is a better hand than kings full of queens. So why have a separate line to show that the highest possible straight flush is better than some middling straight flush?

@Tommy ..please lower @upNdown from a Royal Flush ranking to a Straight Flush

 

[Goosefraba]

@Tommy ..please lower @upNdown from a Royal Flush ranking to a Straight Flush

Is it natural or wild?

 

[chippitydoodah]

Is it natural or wild?

Oh, it's wild baby....really wild

 

[Goosefraba]

Question.. in the card ranking, where would the wild card sit? I guess along the lines of Natural or wilds I’m thinking it would go under the Ace?

 

[Sparkynutz]

I would say so. If you have a four of a kind using a wild card, you can’t beat any natural 4 of a kind. You beat natural full houses though.

Not true.
Ace, Ace, Ace, Wild card beats 4 natural Kings.

 

[Goosefraba]

Not true.
Ace, Ace, Ace, Wild card beats 4 natural Kings.

I see the argument but then you wouldn’t be able to rank hands “Natural over wild” because a natural 4 kings would top a wild 4 aces

 

[Goosefraba]

Quick revisions.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Quick revisions.
View attachment 1318371View attachment 1318372

Try again

Full House described as Flush
Missing Flush

 

[upNdown]

Not true.
Ace, Ace, Ace, Wild card beats 4 natural Kings.

That’s up to your house rules I guess. I was just riffing off what the other guy said about naturals beating wilds.

 

[Goosefraba]

Try again

Full House described as Flush
Missing Flush

In my defense I did say quick

 

[chippitydoodah]

In my defense I did say quick

Probably wouldnt matter to anyone who needs that chart anyway

 

[Goosefraba]

Probsbly wouldnt matter to anyone who needs that chart anyway

Either way I fixed it. I like the debate of which rankings reign supreme. And yes, house rules because I’m sure there’s a game where the house rule goes by wild card hands hold equal value to natural hands.

 

[Sparkynutz]

When playing off a board and shared cards the same hand is natural over wilds.
Say 2 Aces on board community cards, one guy has a wild other has natural ace. Natural trips wins.

 

[BGinGA]

Imo, a poker hand-ranking chart should display the best possible holding for each category, using suits only when applicable:

Straight Flush:
Four of a Kind: +
Full House:
Flush:
Straight:
Three of a Kind: +
Two Pair: +
One Pair: +
High Card: +

 

[Mandos]

Quick revisions.
View attachment 1318382

My 2c, "Natural Hands beat wild hands" creates as much ambiguity as confusion. Are you just saying that for hands that would be tied the natural beats the wild, or that within a similar hand type any natural beats any wild?

 

[Goosefraba]

Imo, a poker hand-ranking chart should display the best possible holding for each category, using suits only when applicable:

Straight Flush:
Four of a Kind: +
Full House:
Flush:
Straight:
Three of a Kind: +
Two Pair: +
One Pair: +
High Card: +

I would probably just remove the “x” but I do like the “+ next highest kicker”

I would also change the suit for the flush to either of the other three

 

[Goosefraba]

My 2c, "Natural Hands beat wild hands" creates as much ambiguity as confusion. Are you just saying that for hands that would be tied the natural beats the wild, or that within a similar hand type any natural beats any wild?

This card was just riffing off of the responses for natural and wild hands. But yes within each hand type the natural beats the wild due to the harder probability of making a natural hand.

In the end it depends on House Rules because of the variation in rulings

Natural > Wild
Natural = Wild
Wild > Natural (probably not used)

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

This card was just riffing off of the responses for natural and wild hands. But yes within each hand type the natural beats the wild due to the harder probability of making a natural hand.

In the end it depends on House Rules because of the variation in rulings

Natural > Wild
Natural = Wild
Wild > Natural (probably not used)

Buuuuu soooo Ace high flush with a wild loses to 10 high flush without one? Gosh thats confusing and would really mess with my strategy, even moreso than just adding the insanity of a wild card.

 

[bigdonkey]

This card was just riffing off of the responses for natural and wild hands. But yes within each hand type the natural beats the wild due to the harder probability of making a natural hand.

If basing on probability, making a hand with only one wild card is harder than with two wild cards. So is the ranking: natural straight flush > 1 wild card straight flush > 2 wild card straight flush > 3 wild card straight flush > 4 wild card straight flush?

 

[Goosefraba]

Buuuuu soooo Ace high flush with a wild loses to 10 high flush without one? Gosh thats confusing and would really mess with my strategy, even moreso than just adding the insanity of a wild card.

 

[Goosefraba]

If basing on probability, making a hand with only one wild card is harder than with two wild cards. So is the ranking: natural straight flush > 1 wild card straight flush > 2 wild card straight flush > 3 wild card straight flush > 4 wild card straight flush?

 

[Goosefraba]

Also I think the last hand you list “4 wild card straight flush” would put you at 5 of a kind which would be the top hand

 

[bigdonkey]

So really, if J-high flush (natural) beats A-high flush (1-wild), they are two seperate categories of hand rankings. You might need a legal-size paper for that chart:

5-of-a-kind (1-wild)
5-of-a-kind (2-wild)
5-of-a-kind (3-wild)
5-of-a-kind (4-wild)
Straight Flush (Natural)
Straight Flush (1-wild)
Straight Flush (2-wild)
Straight Flush (3-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (Natural)
Four-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (3-wild)
Full House (Natural)
Full House (1-Wild)
Flush (Natural)
Flush (1-wild)
Flush (2-wild)
Straight (Natural)
Straight (1-wild)
Straight (2-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (Natural)
Three-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Two Pair (Natural)
One Pair (Natural)
One Pair (1-wild)
High Card

 

[Goosefraba]

So really, if J-high flush (natural) beats A-high flush (1-wild), they are two seperate categories of hand rankings. You might need a legal-size paper for that chart:

5-of-a-kind (1-wild)
5-of-a-kind (2-wild)
5-of-a-kind (3-wild)
5-of-a-kind (4-wild)
Straight Flush (Natural)
Straight Flush (1-wild)
Straight Flush (2-wild)
Straight Flush (3-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (Natural)
Four-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (3-wild)
Full House (Natural)
Full House (1-Wild)
Flush (Natural)
Flush (1-wild)
Flush (2-wild)
Straight (Natural)
Straight (1-wild)
Straight (2-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (Natural)
Three-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Two Pair (Natural)
One Pair (Natural)
One Pair (1-wild)
High Card

let’s make it a roll plot wall size print and incorporate suit rankings to the list.

 

[surfik]

I just mentioned steel wheel because it has its own name, like Royal. Probably a poor choice on my part because it just confuses the argument. And the argument is simply this:
a Royal flush is not a different hand than a straight flush. It is just the highest possible straight flush. That doesn’t mean it should have its own line in addition to the straight flush, because there are no other hands on that chart that have two lines for two different values of the same hand.

Depends on the goal of this excersise....

If it's more like a antropology faculty thing I would mention difference between "Weel" and "Broadway", also if this incudes 5 card draw suits ranking should be mentioned

 

[Goosefraba]

Depends on the goal of this excersise....

If it's more like a antropology faculty thing I would mention difference between "Weel" and "Broadway", also if this incudes 5 card draw suits ranking should be mentioned

The intention for the first card was a quick reference for newbie players in a Hold’em game but it brought up fairly good questions regarding ranking in other games as well as the “royal flush” having its own rank even though it’s just still a straight flush. The wild card rankings imo brings up way too many variations in rulings depending on house rules but it’s a good exercise.

As I mentioned I would be interested how a low game would list rankings or even a high low ranking card but it would require multiple cards for the different types of games. That being said I don’t think I want to take on that task considering I don’t play those games among my group but if we do incorporate such games I will possibly revisit this in the future.

 

[Mandos]

So really, if J-high flush (natural) beats A-high flush (1-wild), they are two seperate categories of hand rankings. You might need a legal-size paper for that chart:

5-of-a-kind (1-wild)
5-of-a-kind (2-wild)
5-of-a-kind (3-wild)
5-of-a-kind (4-wild)
Straight Flush (Natural)
Straight Flush (1-wild)
Straight Flush (2-wild)
Straight Flush (3-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (Natural)
Four-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Four-of-a-kind (3-wild)
Full House (Natural)
Full House (1-Wild)
Flush (Natural)
Flush (1-wild)
Flush (2-wild)
Straight (Natural)
Straight (1-wild)
Straight (2-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (Natural)
Three-of-a-kind (1-wild)
Three-of-a-kind (2-wild)
Two Pair (Natural)
One Pair (Natural)
One Pair (1-wild)
High Card

There's a reason I restricted the wild vs natural distinction to hands over full houses when this first came up... I think messing with it at the lower levels creates more problems than it solves (with the possible exception of number of wild cards used being a tie breaker when 2 hands would otherwise chop, that one's pretty easy).