Poker Set Security (1 Viewer)

[shorticus]

There was an interesting post yesterday about using high denom Chips with low priced sets. Example (China Clay Majestic $100 Chips in a cash game). At what point do you think it is best to switch from a lower priced chip to a custom or at least a Paulson set where you can be somewhat more secure in your game. The math breaks down like this:

China Clays (.39 - .42 based on Apache)
.25 - thief loses min .14 per chip -dumb
$1 - thief gains .61 max per chip - not worth the effort
$5 - thief gains 4.61 per chip - still not worth the effort
$25 - thief gains 24.61 per chip - now we are getting borderline
$100 - per chip 99.61 - I could see this being worth the time and effort for a thief.

So at which level do you make the jump from China Clays to a different chipset if security is your primary objective.

 

[RichMahogany]

Immediately

 

[madforpancakes]

Customs are really the only way to go if security is your primary concern. Even with nice Paulson's, most hundred dollar chips are under $5 each, and $95 is basically the same as $99.61.

Custom labels on china clays is probably the easiest way to achieve a decent level of security. It would be a lot more work for a potential thief to try and duplicate the artwork.

 

[toothpic]

This has also been in the back of my mind but it heavily depends on who you have at the game as well. Our general game is a group of close friends and we get together for fun more than anything so security isn't a problem. To give you an idea, it's 0.25/0.50 blinds where people buy in from $40 to $100. Biggest stack at the end of the night seldom over $200.

With a larger crowd and more unknowns it would definitely be an issue so better to give yourself that excuse to buy nice chips!

I'm the poker chip guy in our group and I'm primarily using Paulsons primarily because I like how they feel and sound vs cheaper chips. Security is just a bonus for me. If our games ever did get bigger, I'd consider doing some customs.

 

[Rhodeman77]

If you are running a game with total strangers I’d want customs. Especially if there is a rake. It is much harder to figure out that someone snuck in a few extra $25’s when it is a raked game.

While I have a custom set, I rotate multiple sets which is added security. If someone tried to buy chips to sneak in they would need to buy from multiple sets or chance bringing the wrong chips for that game. Also I know the exact breakdown of the sets I put in play. So if there were extra high value chips it would send up red flags instantly.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

This has also been in the back of my mind but it heavily depends on who you have at the game as well. Our general game is a group of close friends and we get together for fun more than anything so security isn't a problem. To give you an idea, it's 0.25/0.50 blinds where people buy in from $40 to $100. Biggest stack at the end of the night seldom over $200.

With a larger crowd and more unknowns it would definitely be an issue so better to give yourself that excuse to buy nice chips!

I'm the poker chip guy in our group and I'm primarily using Paulsons primarily because I like how they feel and sound vs cheaper chips. Security is just a bonus for me. If our games ever did get bigger, I'd consider doing some customs.

+1 though a number of people will tell tales about how their friend of X years was found cheating... guess it depends on what crowd you hang out with?

As for security, if you’re on a budget you’ve got two options - 1) buy low end custom chips or 2) design and buy custom labels for your existing chips (assuming they’ll take a label)

Either would greatly increase security as well as make your chips that much cooler!

 

[toothpic]

If you are running a game with total strangers I’d want customs. Especially if there is a rake. It is much harder to figure out that someone snuck in a few extra $25’s when it is a raked game.

While I have a custom set, I rotate multiple sets which is added security. If someone tried to buy chips to sneak in they would need to buy from multiple sets or chance bringing the wrong chips for that game. Also I know the exact breakdown of the sets I put in play. So if there were extra high value chips it would send up red flags instantly.

This is also a very good solution, to remember which chips are handed out. I'll be honest though, at the end of the night and after several drinks I have a hard time just doing the math needed.

I forgot to also mention, I always bring my chips in a carrier with trays. If during cash out there are extra chips or even missing chips we would know since the trays are overflowing or missing some chips.

 

[Coyote]

Custom labels on any chips are already a huge improvement.
@Rhodeman77 added several useful features, especially if the game is NOT among friends and the money involved is serious.

 

[shorticus]

I love the idea of chip rotation, and custom chips are always very secure.

Racks are good as I have chip racks as well so that I can make sure that a.) I'm not overpaying for theft, but also b.) no one is walking out with souvenirs

 

[shorticus]

Additional question: How secure do you all think mixed sets are in regards to security. It goes back and forth for me because on one hand, you would think, well, the person would have to see which chips are being used at which denoms, but on the other hand, said thief is only worried about high end denoms so he would just try and find that denom to match that exact chip. What say you guys?

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Additional question: How secure do you all think mixed sets are in regards to security. It goes back and forth for me because on one hand, you would think, well, the person would have to see which chips are being used at which denoms, but on the other hand, said thief is only worried about high end denoms so he would just try and find that denom to match that exact chip. What say you guys?

not sure what you mean but mixed sets would provide the same security that rotating chips sets would as long as you mixed them evenly and all denoms

 

[zo121179]

Following....

This happened to me years ago and is why I'm invested into customizing my chips. I bought a cheap set years ago from 5 star deal and the very first night I held a ring game my till was off $40. I was very drunk that night so I chalked it up to "never drinking at my game" ever again. The next game I was off $80 and these were "friends" from work. It didn't take rocket science to figure that one out but a majority of the people that play today either nice chips or something you can get from Amazon, Walmart or eBay. With that being said I can't even use Outlaw chips in my game because of the off chance someone comes to my game with a pocket full of $5's and the $5 is the "big chip". It takes a lot of effort but you can do a custom set with very cheap chips that you can rotate from game to game and still come in under what you would pay for Majestic's or Milano's

My main limit set is a mix of Nexgen 8000's and 8002's with a custom label I created from avery.com For 1500 custom chips and labels total monetary cost was under $200 dollars and I feel very safe about having $20 chips on the table. Now it took some time creating the label and making them but to me in the end it's worth every second/penny knowing if someone is going to try and rip me off they are going to have to do a lot more than go to walmart.com.

 

[shorticus]

Mixed sets as in denoms coming from different sets. Example: $1 - Bally’s $5 - RoadHouse, $25 - Horseshoes.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Additional question: How secure do you all think mixed sets are in regards to security. It goes back and forth for me because on one hand, you would think, well, the person would have to see which chips are being used at which denoms, but on the other hand, said thief is only worried about high end denoms so he would just try and find that denom to match that exact chip. What say you guys?

A mixed set is like being able to rotate sets as long as you have multiple chips for each denomination, especially the high value chips.

 

[shorticus]

Never thought about that @Rhodeman77. That’s an excellent idea!

 

[DrStrange]

I think of this as a balance between risk and reward. Oh, and a nifty justification for even more vintage sets.

Most of my sets have plenty of $5 chips. This allows me to play many games with $1s and $5s but nothing higher ( or a few $25s/$20s upon occasion). The "big boys" game can't work this way but the rest of the games I host can. There isn't much juice in buying a $5 chip off of eBay and bringing it to my game. In a few cases, I would be happy if you did.

Second, I know the counts for my sets. If I ended up with 408 $5 chips, I would know. Same things with $25 or $100 chips, but more so. I do not have to wonder why my bank was "off", the extra chips wouldn't fit in the case. I would still be short on cash but I certainly know why.

I have a lot of sets, twenty-one at the moment. I host 50+ games a year. This allows me to rotate my sets - the players don't know which set is coming. Some nights, I don't know until it is time to set up. That would make it very hard to figure which chips to bring to the game.

In truth the problem I have had is the reverse. In rare cases people take "samples" home and let me keep the money. I would much rather have had a handful of extra ones and fives than have 98 chips in my racks . . . .

Using custom sets is more secure than using vintage sets, but hosts can do things to mitigate the risks. Hosts using dice chips or similarly easily attainable common chips are taking a much larger risk.

on the other hand, we could just have a mountain of mixed chips all worth a quarter each -=- DrStrange

 

[Beakertwang]

The best way to get quality and security for the least amount of money, IMO, is to get custom ceramics. If you buy 50¢ Royals and add 30¢ labels, you're about in the price range of fully custom ceramics from ABC. Plus, someone really industrious could copy your label and print their own. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but if they're the type to sneak chips into your game...

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

custom label's will help with your security issues. you can get nice paulson's for the higher demon's but if they are readily available your still at risk. ceramic custom's are great for security purposes but definitely at least get your own label's. that's my 2 cents

 

[allforcharity]

Need for high security = custom chips. It's the mathematical truth.

No need for security = play with whatever you like.

I'm not sure there's much middle ground. A game is either secure or it isn't.

 

[Darson]

We're chippers so the obvious solution is to have >5x tourney sets and >5x cash sets and choose which set to use at random such that it's almost impossible for a player to bring the right chip on the night to cheat.

I currently have 6 tourney sets and only 4 cash sets. I think I better get another cash set... for security purposes of course...

 

[SeanGecko]

I started out using Super Diamonds unlabeled. And we never had an issues except being a few dollars off once in a while. Then we moved to custom labels and never had an issue. Now for big chips we have decided if it is double digits or more it is going to be a custom plaque.

We are currently using Spirit Mold and 8V with custom labels and custom plaques. Disregard those $20 we decided against green $20 and are getting orange plaques instead.

 

[Coyote]

Another (bitter) piece of advice would be "don't be crazy about poker or any hobby, to the degree of letting anybody into your house" (just because another guy you hardly know told you they 're nice)
If not enough of your true friends are interested (enough) in poker, go to a legal public venue to play.
Home games are meaningful only to the extent there is genuine trust and long-standing friendships. Otherwise, they 're just underground games.

 

[WhiteMamba1646]

Another (bitter) piece of advice would be "don't be crazy about poker or any hobby, to the degree of letting anybody into your house" (just because another guy you hardly know told you they 're nice)
If not enough of your true friends are interested (enough) in poker, go to a legal public venue to play.
Home games are meaningful only to the extent there is genuine trust and long-standing friendships. Otherwise, they 're just underground games.

This! i can leave rack's of chips on a table behind me and not worry 1 bit about going in side for a little while and coming back knowing they were never touched. Need that level of trust in my house in order to continue to have games.

 

[shorticus]

Very good point @Coyote

I’ve been thinking about starting a community game in our subdivision, but not “really knowing” people makes it scary to me.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Another (bitter) piece of advice would be "don't be crazy about poker or any hobby, to the degree of letting anybody into your house" (just because another guy you hardly know told you they 're nice)
If not enough of your true friends are interested (enough) in poker, go to a legal public venue to play.
Home games are meaningful only to the extent there is genuine trust and long-standing friendships. Otherwise, they 're just underground games.

+1 but if you have to play with people you wouldn't trust your car with, then just make sure you take the appropriate steps in securing your game

 

[Coyote]

I wouldn't trust my current car with anybody but the person who helped fine-tune its chassis / suspension, i.e. World Rally Champion Walter Roehrl

On a more serious note, I fully agree that "good accounts [and good rules] make good friends".

Another serious issue arises when legal public venues in your country (where you 're supposed to go play as a law-abiding citizen) only offer stakes unaffordable to the "layman" (i.e. in Greece, casinos, the only legal venues, offer minimum stakes of 1/2 Euros, which feels on Greek pockets at least like what $ 2.5 / 5 would feel on American pockets).

 

[JustinInMN]

I appreciate that you did the math, but in truth I think you should be more worried about 1s and 5s that you think.

We had a 1-1 game in our neighborhood (before my buddy moved away) using a nice set of stock ceramics. But they were stock for about 40/rack or 10 for a sleeve of 25. A lot of fives get in play in this game so I would think it would be easy to slip a few in a week and if one eventually gets all 25 in play that $100 right there.

So I guess for me, that's the point I would worry and TBH, I am only in this forum because I am interested in getting nice customs, not for stock chips.

+1 to the suggestion of using @ABC Gifts and Awards / BR pro for custom ceramics. I would have done this by now if I didn't have my head set on hybrids.

 

[shorticus]

I dont know @JustinInMN using China Clays when you look at it in totality, a 39c Chip that’s gonna come by the barrel of $25s plus shipping. I wouldnt be overly concerned and if you keep your chips in racks, you should catch it the first time.

$5’s are a bigger loss, so I agree, they are worth the worry just not to the extent of larger denoms.

 

[JustinInMN]

I wouldnt be overly concerned and if you keep your chips in racks, you should catch it the first time.

"Catching it the first time" is still too late. It's like closing the barn door after the horses have run out. Noticing extras at the end of the night and catching the fraud in progress are very different things. Figuring out what happens still means the host ends up owning 20 extra fives that cost $100. Without knowing who, it can happen again.

The point is I think stock sets are risky beyond micro levels. 64/rack for 500+ for semi customs is an extra 25/rack over stock ceramics or China clays, and pretty much prevents ever taking that hit. Custom labels are an option too. The free river club set is my exercise is showing how to do the cheapest labelling possible.

 

[NotABot]

Man I am buying chips because I just love the look/feel of them. I have a poker game but I never really considered people bringing in chips. Sounds like a real headache to deal with, really hope I never have to. I guess I will be safe as I am making a custom label Bud Jones S2 set, and I am 100% sure that if I mentioned this to my guys they would ask “Who the hell is Bud? I didn’t know we had a new player.” I feel like they will be secure in my game.