Proposed build - Large(ish) dismantleable topper with raised rail and leds (1 Viewer)

[Nymor]

Picking my wood up Monday coming so for now it's all about the supporting cast.

Metal work now joined by some 3M 77, some clamps and a spanner

I have a sproket set but it only goes up to 13mm and the bolts are 17mm so decided just to get a simple spanner.

The clamps are really strong so I'm going to have no problem keeping the tension in the cloth while adding the rail. No need for eyelets or velcro so it's going to be really easy doing that part.

Not yet decided if/when adhesive will be used on the playing surface but will certainly be needed for the rail foam.

And talking of foam - it's a regular old foam party here...

(top to bottom)
Single piece of 6mm HD foam for the playing surface. Might get split in 2 if I do glue it down but 1 piece in case I go the roll-it-up route.
4 pieces of 6mm HD for the "skirt" - see below.
8 pieces of 1" HD for the rail sections. (These are a bit bigger than they need to be but better that than too small and thinking about now I should have just got a big sheet but whatever)
8 strips closed cell for LED diffuser. Longest length available was 1m so opted for a length per rail section ~610mm instead. They're slightly oversided on height so they will fit really snuggly between the rail overhang and the surface. They'll look good whether the LEDs are on or off and provide a little bit of bounce for overpitched cards rather than then slamming into perspex (for example)


The "Skirt"

Earlier in the thread I proposed some system to hide the cloth excess and cover the outside wood that involved faux leather and poppers attached to the underside of the table. That was a bit complicated I think and the leather (sample) was a bit thick and therefore more difficult to work with than the suede that's being used for the rail. So I've changed that a bit.

Now I'm still having the skirt but it will be out of the same fabric as the rail and have a thin layer of foam to give a bit of a cushion. Rather than attach it to the table with poppers I'm going to be making use of these

(lace hooks with rivets)

and some paracord to pull it all tight. I'll also be able to hide all this by adding it all on the top side of the skirt. I think it will work pretty well.

 

[Dezmond]

Picking my wood up Monday coming so for now it's all about the supporting cast.

Metal work now joined by some 3M 77, some clamps and a spanner

I have a sproket set but it only goes up to 13mm and the bolts are 17mm so decided just to get a simple spanner.

The clamps are really strong so I'm going to have no problem keeping the tension in the cloth while adding the rail. No need for eyelets or velcro so it's going to be really easy doing that part.

Not yet decided if/when adhesive will be used on the playing surface but will certainly be needed for the rail foam.

And talking of foam - it's a regular old foam party here...

(top to bottom)
Single piece of 6mm HD foam for the playing surface. Might get split in 2 if I do glue it down but 1 piece in case I go the roll-it-up route.
4 pieces of 6mm HD for the "skirt" - see below.
8 pieces of 1" HD for the rail sections. (These are a bit bigger than they need to be but better that than too small and thinking about now I should have just got a big sheet but whatever)
8 strips closed cell for LED diffuser. Longest length available was 1m so opted for a length per rail section ~610mm instead. They're slightly oversided on height so they will fit really snuggly between the rail overhang and the surface. They'll look good whether the LEDs are on or off and provide a little bit of bounce for overpitched cards rather than then slamming into perspex (for example)


The "Skirt"

Earlier in the thread I proposed some system to hide the cloth excess and cover the outside wood that involved faux leather and poppers attached to the underside of the table. That was a bit complicated I think and the leather (sample) was a bit thick and therefore more difficult to work with than the suede that's being used for the rail. So I've changed that a bit.

Now I'm still having the skirt but it will be out of the same fabric as the rail and have a thin layer of foam to give a bit of a cushion. Rather than attach it to the table with poppers I'm going to be making use of these

(lace hooks with rivets)

and some paracord to pull it all tight. I'll also be able to hide all this by adding it all on the top side of the skirt. I think it will work pretty well.

Very nice! It almost looks like you are making this an ikea kit! Heheheheh. It’s good to
Be organized for sure.

 

[London24]

I know the chips are the star of the show at PCF, but I'm also here for THIS

Looking forward to seeing this all come together, if it's a success you should consider selling on the DXF files as I'd imagine you've done most of the hard yards in the build just getting to this point

 

[Nymor]

and the cup holders fit perfectly

so snug I'm not going to have to anything extra with them

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

 

[London24]

Nice! when's it all being put together?

Particularly interested in your project as I'm also thinking about a modular build that breaks down for storage and has both 8 and 10 seat configs (my design has 3 sections and works with or without the middle).

Also predictably stuck on the eternal question of cup holders in the rail or flip-outs, and LEDs or no LEDs.

 

[Nymor]

Nice! when's it all being put together?

I've got everything but the fabric - which was ordered over the weekend so should be here this week. (Black and terracota faux suede).

Going to sand everything down first to tidy everything up. Damp cloth to raise the grain first and then smooth it down. I'll spend a bit more time on the side tables as they are going to be stained (and maybe varnished) and I'm probably going to stain the underside of the base for aesthetic reasons but the rest I'll leave as none of it is visible.

The upholstery part is the big bit but if I take my time and pay attention I should be able to get that complete over the next couple of weeks.

There's still a lot to do - chips and Chanman cloth amongst them - but I'm hoping to get a game in before Christmas.

Particularly interested in your project as I'm also thinking about a modular build that breaks down for storage and has both 8 and 10 seat configs (my design has 3 sections and works with or without the middle).

That's more of a challenge but if you have a separate cloth for each setup I can see it working. As mentioned earlier in this thread my no.1 requirement was for a single uninterrupted playing surface and everything just fell out from that. if you set your key priorities and don't allow compromise on those then you'll end up where you want to be. I hope my journey helps in some way.

Also predictably stuck on the eternal question of cup holders in the rail or flip-outs, and LEDs or no LEDs.

My 2nd core requirement was "no shit on the table" - so cup holders, both cup only and cup + table, are bolt-ons. Drinks, phones and whatever else people want near them are going on them. (Didn't really have room for trolleys and I'm not a big fan of them anyway).

I'm going for a simple warm white soft glow from my LEDs - the coloured individually addressable ones controlled by a Raspberry PI and hooked into tournament software will have to wait


Good luck with your build. I have very limited DIY experience so if I can do it ....

 

[JP1984]

Love this thread so much and another UK chipper! Excited to see the finished project.

Also a shout out to @OfficerLovejoy without his technical drawings I'm not sure you'd have got this far!

Here's my effort - https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...at-bad-confessions-of-a-new-uk-chipper.59959/

Note, the original cloth and ceramics lasted approx 12 months before I had to upgrade. No slight on Tony, I just learned a lot about designing in that time! I rushed in...

 

[London24]

Agree that an uninterrupted playing surface is crucial - my solution is, once the table has been assembled for the night (that is, the rail has been plonked on the base), a topper from @rjdev7 hides the patchwork below.

So the base is relatively simple, maybe just 2mm uncovered foam, maybe completely bare, removing one element of the foam / glue / cloth nightmare that's giving me second thoughts about starting in the first place.

I'm kind of comfortable with the construction bit - especially going down the CNC route - it's the upholstery I'm worried about

 

[Dezmond]

Can't wait to see assembly work started!!!! This is an amazing build... Would like to hear if anything isn't exact or if you have to change anything for fit and finish.. Make sure to post any bad with the good k?

Good Job!!!!

 

[Nymor]

Lots to do before I put it all together but wanted to check it all lines up ok ...

Base

Rail Support

Rail

A bit of the closed cell foam for LED diffuser - nice and snug without having to fix in place.

All holes lines up perfectly (as they should)

Would like to hear if anything isn't exact or if you have to change anything for fit and finish..

I had the M10 holes drilled at 10.1mm ... they're a little too tight and should have been 10.2/3 so have some sanding drums on the way to fix that. Could do it manually but it's ~50 holes so going to let my drill take the strain on that.

Back to the prep ...

 

[Nymor]

All M10 holes now expanded to the correct size and all surfaces and edges sanded nicely.

Happier than I probably should be that the t-nuts fit perfectly

Fabric has arrived so going to start on the upholstery this weekend. The black suede is fine - the terracota a bit brighter than anticipated - and I had samples - so I'll see what it looks like. If it looks rubbish then I'll do the whole rail black but I still like the idea of having alternate colours for each section as it adds an extra bit of spice. We'll see on that.

Only thing I've got to decide is whether I just have the foam on the top and sides (glued with 3M 77) or whether I extend the wrap and staple to the bottom.

I'd originally planned the latter but I see more examples of the former. I just think there's a likelihood of the foam slipping up the side over time with the first style.

A fun w/e ahead - but beers and food are on the agenda for tonight now. (Also got to sort my wildcard out in FPL - Salah or no Salah that is the question...)

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

If you wanna know what the most accomplished table builder on this site thinks about this - I've asked him this very question before building my table.
Here you see another one of my highly advanced technical drawings.

 

[Nymor]

Went with the above advice - and started the upholstery.

First thing I found out was that the 1mm gap between the rail sections was way too small - needed to be 3 at least - so I had to shave the section ends a bit. Started will sandpaper but soon realised that was going to take forever so bought a rasp and chewed though it.

I'll give myself a B for my subsequent efforts ...

(big toe slipping in there ... for scale )

with tidy underside also

(1 & 2 were the first - I then decided I didn't need quite so many staples on the lining part.)

I got the ends as square as I could

The colour is a bit washed out on the above image but below shows it better. I wasn't sure I was going to like the alternating black/maroon thing but I think it's alright. (Each section is ~70cm on the outside rail)

Rail with cup-holders (and diffuser foam)

and with cup holder/table, with small silicon mat for non-slipness

The (6in) rail feels really good but where the sections meet is something I'd like to improve somehow. It's not awful - and probably close to the best I can expect.
(except the inside left hand end of the closest straight black section - I can see from here that needs an extra staple to pull it down a bit)

but I hink I can make it cleaner. One thought is the have an extra piece of (nicely seamed) fabric wrapped around. A couple of scraps show one way (roughly) - same suede same colours or reversed etc.

Loads of options there to play around to make that look better while still being completely take-apart-able.


After taking the above photos ... disaster . Undoing the bolts and one just wouldn't come out.

Took me a while to realise one of the t-nuts had come lose and was now just turning with the bolt as I tried to undo it. How could that happen? those things dig in. Feeling through the rail foam I could tell the t-nut was still flush so the teeth must have broken - which turns out to have been the case. I don't think I overtightened the bolt but that's the only way I can see that the teeth broke off. Bit of a concern going forward - will just have to be careful.

But anyway there I am trying to get this bolt out with a spinning t-nut. I tried holding it still through the foam but it seemed fairly well jammed onto the bolt and 20 mins of struggle got me nowhere. It was time for something drastic. I was going to have to get in there to replace the t-nut anyway but need to get this bolt out before I can do anything else. So out came a blade.

Some keyhole surgery and the bolt is freed and a new t-nut is in place. The fabric was lost but the foam was saved - clean cut and some 3M 77 did the job there.

I have spare fabric so I'm just redoing that but I don't have any spare foam so glad I managed to avoid ordering more.


In other news ...

I'm going to be dying the sidetables and underside of the base and have got a couple of samples on the way to get a good deep red for those. I don't want black as the cup holders are black and there's enough black elsewhere also so a bit of contrast on the tables will work better I think.

Got to do the skirt ... and get going on the cloth which I've not really started yet - sigh.

 

[Nymor]

I really do need to get my cloth ordered from Chanman and I want to try and get as much done before I start to use up the 2 free hours design time Tony offers. I'm pretty sure that should be reserved for implementation in the correct format and final tweaks to the design rather than starting with a completely blank canvas.

From my chips thread the last mockup I had was this

I like the main components - tug of war between angel and devil over Brighton - but need to tone it down a bit (or a lot) as it's a poker cloth that needs to be played on.

I'm pretty happy with the outer part

with a devil and angel imp/icon replacing the traditional suits

Maybe that will change but I think that's about right - relatively dark and borrowing colours from my 2-colour rail.

It's the middle I need to finalise a bit more. I'm at this point now with the liberal use of emboss filters

but it still needs some work. I certainly want to add some gradients - just outside the betting line and also within the center section itself. Maybe fade it even more and/or introduce more variation on the maroon and greyscale. I like the way these 2 cloths work for example.

My center needs to be brighter maybe.

ramble ramble ...

Any thoughts most welcome.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

I really do need to get my cloth ordered from Chanman and I want to try and get as much done before I start to use up the 2 free hours design time Tony offers. I'm pretty sure that should be reserved for implementation in the correct format and final tweaks to the design rather than starting with a completely blank canvas.

From my chips thread the last mockup I had was this

I like the main components - tug of war between angel and devil over Brighton - but need to tone it down a bit (or a lot) as it's a poker cloth that needs to be played on.

I'm pretty happy with the outer part

with a devil and angel imp/icon replacing the traditional suits

Maybe that will change but I think that's about right - relatively dark and borrowing colours from my 2-colour rail.

It's the middle I need to finalise a bit more. I'm at this point now with the liberal use of emboss filters

but it still needs some work. I certainly want to add some gradients - just outside the betting line and also within the center section itself. Maybe fade it even more and/or introduce more variation on the maroon and greyscale. I like the way these 2 cloths work for example.

My center needs to be brighter maybe.

ramble ramble ...

Any thoughts most welcome.

Personally, I like a brighter center.

 

[mattross1313]

Great progress

 

[Nymor]

Personally, I like a brighter center.

Hmm ... I just feel that if it's too busy/colourful it would be distracting. Also one of my friends thinks the angel/devil is a bit homoerotica - which I just don't see - so was trying to tone that down for her sake. But then again it's Brighton

There are also many versions of that Brighton skyline available
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/michael-tompsett/art/digital+art/brighton
(the ones without the wheel as that is no longer there)
so I could really go to town on the colours but greyscale or single colour variations are still favourite I think.

I made contact with the artist and I can get a licensed digital copy to use for £10 - which will give me as good a start point as possible and keep everything above board copyright-wise for Tony. Was about to get the greyscale one but will hold off until I know which direction I'm going.

(The devil/angel image is from DeviantArt and free for personal use.)

So many options - but I've got to make a decision soonest as I'm not going to get a game in before Christmas which is what I'm aiming for.

 

[Dezmond]

Don't rush it!!! It's looking awesome so far.. I like the darker colours but will the chips stand out on cloth? Just thinking if any one them blend it, it could be hard to see the chips denom, etc.?? Maybe not though....

In the end, it's yours and you have to like it...

 

[Nymor]

A couple more on the more colourful end of the spectrum.

I quite like these but am worried that the chips will get lost against them.

 

[Nymor]

Kicked off the Chanman cloth process

With a number of things still outstanding on the parts of the build that would really benefit from a needle and thread I've also just ordered a sewing machine ... and a few other support items to help me cut and hem straight edges.

I've been umming and aring about whether I should do this for a couple of weeks but trying to do the outside skirt part with press studs and iron-on seams really wasn't going to cut it. Got a good black friday deal on a decent beginners machine and am confident I can get to grips with the basic functions I need for what I'm getting it for.

I'm also getting to 3D print a few useful items at last - clam/jam(?) cleats and/or paracord tensioners plus some little coin display stands for the photos of my chips - some of which I got a peak at from Tina

 

[NeoViny23]

Love to see the progress on this build…

but am worried that the chips will get lost against them.

..haha, yeah, I thought the same as I saw the center of that felt… The contrast between the chips and the felt underlines the pot in a big way….

 

[Nymor]

It feels like forever since I updated this thread but progress is being made.

I got delivery of my Chanman cloth this morning and here's a (washed out because I have a rubbish phone camera) pic of it sitting on it's base with foam underneath - I hope to get better pics later.

The printed area goes right to the edge of the base - the foam hasn't been trimmed yet so is sticking out a bit more - with the rail sitting on top and clamping it in place. It feels wonderful

Just from laying it out above I think I know the route I've got to take with the foam and that is to (3M77) glue it to the base, trim the edges and then cut it down the middle. Lining up the foam and cloth each time will just be a pain so sticking the foam down will help there.

I was concerned that the cut down the middle would show through but I've done a couple of experiments and as long as the cut is clean - very sharp knife - and the foam isn't under any horizontal tension when glued down the join won't show.

If, over time, there are any nibbles in the foams outside edge then that will be under the rail so ok. If I get nibbles that make the center line visible then I've got a 5cm strip of cloth that I've cut from one of the ends' excess length that I can lay between the foam and cloth if needs be. Hopefully that will be a couple of years away if it happens at all. And I can always replace the foam as well.

Once I've glued the foam I'll cut all the holes in cloth and foam (3cm) for the (1cm) bolts to go through. I'm reinforcing the cloth with (7cm round) iron-on strengthener where the holes are going to be to prevent any possible fraying. All this is again underneath the rail.

I've also finished the "skirt" which as well as providing a little bit of cushioning to the base will also hide the excess cloth nicely. The draw string underneath the base works really well in keeping everything really tidy. Never thought I'd buy, let alone use, a sewing machine but seams, buttonholes and other bits and bobs don't sew themselves

Still a bit to do but nearly there

 

[Easylife]

Looks fantastic

 

[Nymor]

Looks fantastic

The chips can get a little bit lost in some areas of the center but not terribly and I knew that would probably happen. Overall it's pretty much how I envisaged it.

Thanks to @T_Chan for a superb product - the surface, 6mm open cell foam and Tonys gaming suede, is stunning to the touch - just enough give to make it easy to peek at your cards, but firm enough that chips will stack ok and when dealing the cards just fly across the surface.

Just hope I don't mess up putting the holes in it...

 

[Nymor]

Hole cutting went swimmingly and now I have my LEDs I've finally got this build all finished - just waiting on chairs now which unfortunately are in a container somewhere and are a few weeks away. (They're just basic conference chairs - 4 black and 4 burgundy - and I could get silver or gold frames now/next week but I want to hold out for the black framed versions as they work best with the table imo).

Going to break this into a couple of posts - this one detailing all the parts, after a preamble, and a second going through the stages of assembly in an hour or so.


Preamble:

Decided against sticking the foam down, and cutting it in half, in the end. The problem I saw with sticking it down was that the 6mm foam is fairly easy to tear and I've got to hold on to the base at some point when moving it and it wouldn't be long I'm sure before it ripped or was damaged in some other way.

Rolling out the foam each time then left me with another problem to solve. Positioning the foam was fine but then getting the cloth in the right place while keeping the foam where it was was virtually impossible - pull the cloth a bit this way and the foam would come with it. The foam had to be pinned down in some way.

Had a mini brainwave though and with the help of my 3D printer a solution was found

The 3D printer helped in a number of areas ...

Table leg extension, clips used to hold the skirt and LED cable which were superglued to the underside of the base, and the (pink) thingy that helps with foam and cloth alignment.

I had to cut 5cm (2") of the legs of my table so the top of the rail is a comfortable 30" height - but wanted to still use the table for other things at it's normal height ... so I printed some leg extensions that fit very snuggly to achieve that.

Parts:

Base underside with skirt clips and LED cable clips

Base top with bolt holes and t-nuts for side-tables

Foam with 3cm holes centered over 1cm (M10) bolt holes

Cloth with 3cm holes and cutouts to allow for side-table bolts

Rail support underside with foam and faux suede skirt, holes for side-table bolts, bendable aluminium profile and diffuser plus 2 LED strings (120/m warm white 3000k)

Rail support topside with little foam/suede pads to compensate for the skirt and keep things flat. Draw strings for the skirt - excess length has since been trimmed and metal lace end wotsits added.

Rail sections as before

All the extra bibs and bobs.

Family portrait


and on to the build ...

 

[Nymor]

Construction:

In the beginning there was a table (with stumpy legs) ...

Base and LED extension cables added.
I'm still to decide exactly how the extension cables will be fixed to the table leg and out to the driver but I suspect I will wrap it all in black tape and use a floor channel so no one can trip. Still looking at the asthetics of that.
I did consider a battery powered system with everything within the table but couldn't find a solution that lasted long enough without changing batteries out and didn't cost a fortune. Still an option later down the line though if I want to.

(What I think is) the clever bit. The pink widgets fit in the bolt holes and have a 3cm top - to match the size of the holes in the foam and cloth.

Foam unrolled and positioned.

Cloth unfurled and positioned.

Foam and cloth lineup literally takes a couple minutes - so pleased

Remove the alignment widgets and add the rail support parts

Connect the LEDs to the extension cables

Connect the 2 skirts on both sides with poppers

Add bolts and temporarily fix with wingnuts. This allows me to tension the cloth and keep it tensioned as I add the rail sections one by one.

Rail sections added

Thread paracord through the 2 thingies on both sides and pull tight while tucking extra cloth in

Push drawstring into holding clips. This is a bit of a pita but without out it the skirt hangs down a bit no matter how hard you pull the drawstring. The clips are just the right size that they will hold the cord firmly while allowing easy disassembly with a good tug

End result is a tight and tidy looking skirt

Add the side-tables - the small ones in this case

With the LEDS as is the profiles' diffuser is so close to the LEDs that spotting still happens so I still add the extra high density foam strips

Foam strips added.

This does a few things:-
Diffuses the light so there is no spotting.
As the foam is a really tight fit it pulls the cloth a bit more and smooths the ripples/bumps in my rail upholstery
Is kind to cards that hit it and bounces them back. Without the foam every card I pitched too far got stuck under the aluminium profile (which is 18mm high - the same as the rail support)
Looks better

The LEDs look a lot brighter in the images than in real life - but they are bright enough. The difference between the plain LEDs and those with foam in front is a fair reflection of the additional diming from the foam.

So there it is - a couple of months behind schedule and with probably a month before I get a game in.

The uphostery could be improved but it still looks great and is pretty much what I was aimimg for - a decent sized table with raised rail, LEDs, custom cloth that can be completely dismantled.

 

[Nymor]

Chairs finally here and everything is now ready to go

This Saturday has 8 players for a cash game and next Friday 8 for a tournament - only me playing both.

How exciting

 

[mattross1313]

Chairs finally here and everything is now ready to go

This Saturday has 8 players for a cash game and next Friday 8 for a tournament - only me playing both.

How exciting

Hope you run well

 

[Nymor]

I've never been that happy with my first effort at the upholstery - it wasn't terrible but it's always been in the back of my mind that it needed redoing.

Bit rubbish really and the biggest give away was the overhang on the maroon corner pieces was bigger than that on the others and felt a bit floppy/loose. Best illustrated with this pic showing the foam diffuser disappearing underneath.

Anyway got the stappler and remover out and set to work.

Rule number 1, which I should have stuck too first time round, is don't pick a particular tension and try and be consistant with it but just pull everything as tight as possible ... hand hurting tight.

Much better


And now that the rail overhang was the same all the way round and I was in the zone I decided to make some changes to the LED part.

My LED setup is flexible aluminium profile (heat sink) with plastic diffuser and then an additional foam (white EVA) section in front - which acts to completely remove any spotting and provide a soft surface for looks and card bouncability. While it worked perfectly it was quite plain and, because the foam was in sections, you could see the joins if you looked closely enough.

FreeCad and 3D printer gave me a couple of widgets that I've added to rid myself of the joins and add a bit of pizzazz.

The Angel/Devil part is pocketed/padded with a 1mm "back plate" to diffuse the light and the other bits help keep the widget flat, a fixed distance from the LEDs and seating of the ends of the foam.

3D printing nerd mode ...
To print without supports I had to print in 2 parts and superglue together. I would have liked the 2 parts to be

but having the "front" on the build plate caused loss of definition so I had to print

so I could print with the back on the build plate which results in a glued whole that isn't quite as clean but whatever. (I also tried with the solid 1mm at the front but that gave me fuzzy icons, and with 0.5mm I could see the print lines).

Works really well.

The light through the Devil is redder than it looks in the pics so both give a really cool glow ... although I think my white filament is getting a bit old as the surface is not as smooth as I'd like but you have to look closely to see that and when it's not noticable when the lights are on anyway.

The rail is now super tight and the LED setup quite funky - pretty pleased