Solver says call this flop raise - do you? (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

25NL Ignition anonymous fast fold 6-max.

Folds to Hero in SB. RFI 55 to $0.75 (3bb, standard). BB flats.

Hero c-bets flop and is raised over 3.5x. Hero?

Solver does cbet this flop a high % of the time mixing sizing, larger sizing holding a spade (small blocker to v having a spade draw/giving H a runner-runner spade draw).

 

[SpaceMonkey420]

i have no idea what im looking at but it looks cool. for $2 id peel another card off. lol

 

[detroitdad]

Raise or fold.

 

[tabletalker7]

@detroitdad is right. Either you think you are good and come back over the top, or you don't and you fold. No calling this.

 

[raynmanas]

honest question - are solvers at all useful for zone? there is just so much "if i whiff, i click check/fold and move on" going on, it feels like whatever you do, if you have someone coming along they are probably in good shape.

in zone, i fold this and move on to set-mining the next hand.

 

[Coyote]

Are there any online stakes where people play without solvers?
5/10c on Pstars is already competitive; not to mention 8/16c where it can get pretty tough

 

[raynmanas]

Are there any online stakes where people play without solvers?
5/10c on Pstars is already competitive; not to mention 8/16c where it can get pretty tough

i'm not talking about stakes, i'm talking about zone poker. to me, it plays like a completely different game because it is so easy to fold and see 2 new cards at a new random table IMMEDIATELY. so generally speaking, if someone is still in a hand, they are much stronger than the same situation in a regular game.

 

[Coyote]

Sure, agreed.
I just asked a more general question in "by the way" mode.

 

[boltonguy]

I agree. I folded here but 55 is a pure call in solver-land.
I'm folding and moving on to the next hand. Spade comes and I'm toast (even runner runner), blank and check to a bet?
Outside of a 5 coming I dont see this getting any easier for the OOP player in the SB.

 

[Changster]

Easy call unless you are super sure your opponent never bluff raise in that spot.

If you folded you’d be over folding, i.e if you folded pairs on this board what do you call with? Just Jx, QQ+ and flush draws? That’s not enough hands in a SB vs BB scenario where the bb is defending like 70%+ of hands.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Are there any online stakes where people play without solvers?
5/10c on Pstars is already competitive; not to mention 8/16c where it can get pretty tough

I honestly do not know if you're being sarcastic or serious.

I can't imagine a scenario where this software doesn't eventually ruin public online poker.

Hero c-bets flop and is raised over 3.5x. Hero?

Folds and finds a mixed game with people he trusts.

For real, though, I don't see myself ever calling here. As has been said above, this is a raise-or-fold spot. Best case, you're up against a couple overcards, or you might be up against 33 or 44 once a century. All other hands have you drawing to a two-outer. And IMO this bet-call line only hurts your chances of successfully bluffing a better hand out on a later street, so it loses on fold equity too.

C-bet makes sense, of course. Mixing some check-raises in with your c-bets would probably be solid. But calling this raise is pretty spewy. Seems your software is assuming overly aggressive opponents or something.

 

[raynmanas]

I agree. I folded here but 55 is a pure call in solver-land.
I'm folding and moving on to the next hand. Spade comes and I'm toast (even runner runner), blank and check to a bet?
Outside of a 5 coming I dont see this getting any easier for the OOP player in the SB.

View attachment 678368

sweet, glad we agree! but i don't think a lot of people here understand what zone poker is. every time you post one of these threads, most of the responses are people assuming you know your opponents. zone is just so different, the normal rules do not apply.

 

[boltonguy]

Seems your software is assuming overly aggressive opponents or something.

BB's flatting range is pretty wide so solver is raising here with several value hands with a 2 like 22, 32s, 52s, Q2s, K2s and balancing with bluffs at the bottom of her range like K4o, K5o. I dont think the average player in this pool is balanced ...

 

[Changster]

This is absolutely not a raise or fold spot. Why would you ever raise? If you get called, you are crushed with basically no equity.

I actually can’t think of any raise or fold spots ever. I can think of many call or raise spots like you have a flush draw and get bet into. Then again I’m not a pro.

 

[boltonguy]

This is absolutely not a raise or fold spot. Why would you ever raise? If you get called, you are crushed with basically no equity.

I actually can’t think of any raise or fold spots ever. I can think of many call or raise spots like you have a flush draw and get bet into. Then again I’m not a pro.

I can see people thinking ... no way can V have a 2 (there are already 2 of them out there so low odds) and hopefully not likely to have a J, and raising to try and blow V off a hand like 2 overs or a FD which is bluffing but I agree with you - you get called and youre toast. You have 2 outs to improve. Pot's getting a bit big to be banking on no spades coming and hoping your low PP is good, or V not having a 2 or a J or the random PP like TT that crush you. I think you're getting called and crushed by a V raising here more often than you are getting folds ...

 

[Beakertwang]

Three times I read the title as "@Saoliver says call this flop."

I thought "why the hell do I care what he says?"

 

[Saoliver]

Three times I read the title as "@Saoliver says call this flop."

I thought "why the hell do I care what he says?"

“Call that DAMN flop!”

Miss playing with you, Andrew.

 

[TwoHomie]

What solver is this? Doesn’t look like PIO

 

[boltonguy]

@TwoHomie its GTO+

 

[TwoHomie]

@TwoHomie its GTO+

Thank you!

 

[Beakertwang]

“Call that DAMN flop!”

Miss playing with you, Andrew.

Likewise. Why aren't you in Windy Crest?

 

[boltonguy]

I downloaded the hole cards - turns out V had
Shoulda jammed!

 

[Changster]

I downloaded the hole cards - turns out V had
Shoulda jammed!

No you should not have jammed. Why jam? He would fold his bluffs.

This is why the solver is calling. There are many many hands you beat, so you don’t fold because you are ahead, and you don’t raise because bluffs fold.

 

[boltonguy]

I know I'm joking!!

 

[TwoHomie]

Betting flop at a higher frequency when you have a spade makes sense, but then doesn’t it sorta flip when villan raises? Seems like having the 5spades blocks a lot of the semi-bluff back-door draws that V could be raising with, like 45ss, 46ss, 57ss, 58ss, A5ss.

Or maybe I just don’t know what I’m talking about.

 

[philhut]

How badly do you want to win that $0.75 cents your opponent put in as their big blind? Do you want to risk $2 on it? or risk more on your possibly less than 50% chance of winning and going on into a turn/river which could cost up up to $24.25 if your opponent shove's..... like others have said i'd fold and move on without knowing any other information.

 

[Eriks]

I'm with solver; call. Raising is useless as has been pointed out. Raising to fold out bluffs that has some equity has merit in tournaments but in cashgames there shouldn't be any "fold and wait for a better spot". But rather choosing the most profitable line. In certain situations it may be unclear which line that is, but we can't give up +EV spots because we might get outdrawn.

 

[Coyote]

I honestly do not know if you're being sarcastic or serious.

I can't imagine a scenario where this software doesn't eventually ruin public online poker.

Yeah, I was serious!

 

[bsdunbar1]

Three times I read the title as "@Saoliver says call this flop."

I thought "why the hell do I care what he says?"

I had to reread the title after reading your post because I thought it said the same thing

 

[boltonguy]

So we call and then a spade or any overcard to our 5 comes and V fires again ... I cant call here.
What is our plan for turn? How many brick turns are there for us? A 3 or a 4? No good turns for us except a 5.