Sunday afternoon 1/2NL: AQs UTG (1 Viewer)

[Schmendr1ck]

So I think it's been long enough for results and discussion.

Preflop
Hero UTG ($275) with opens to $7.
Folds to Villain on BTN ($100) who 3-bets to $15.
Blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop ($28):
Hero checks. Villain thinks for a moment and bets $25. Hero calls.

Turn ($76):
Hero shoves for $60 effective, Villain calls and tables . River is the inconsequential case A and Villain takes the pot.

At the end of my session, I talked to @ni9n3r about the hand, and he seemed convinced that I played the hand right and it was just a cooler. However, after thinking about it a bit, I argued that I probably should have check-folded the flop. Here's why:

Most 1/2 players have an extremely small and strong preflop 3-betting range, especially when playing shallow stacks. For some it is KK+ only, while for most it is QQ+/AK. With a flop like this one, a preflop 3-bet from an unknown, and no club in my hand, I am way behind all of his likely holdings except QQ (which I block). The pot is small and I have zero room to improve on the turn: no flush or straight possibilities, an ace doesn't change anything, and a queen improves the one hand in his likely range that I'm currently beating.

I think the best line in this spot is to check-fold the flop and move on.

 

[v1pe]

So I think it's been long enough for results and discussion.

Preflop
Hero UTG ($275) with opens to $7.
Folds to Villain on BTN ($100) who 3-bets to $15.
Blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop ($28):
Hero checks. Villain thinks for a moment and bets $25. Hero calls.

Turn ($76):
Hero shoves for $60 effective, Villain calls and tables . River is the inconsequential case A and Villain takes the pot.

At the end of my session, I talked to @ni9n3r about the hand, and he seemed convinced that I played the hand right and it was just a cooler. However, after thinking about it a bit, I argued that I probably should have check-folded the flop. Here's why:

Most 1/2 players have an extremely small and strong preflop 3-betting range, especially when playing shallow stacks. For some it is KK+ only, while for most it is QQ+/AK. With a flop like this one, a preflop 3-bet from an unknown, and no club in my hand, I am way behind all of his likely holdings except QQ (which I block). The pot is small and I have zero room to improve on the turn: no flush or straight possibilities, an ace doesn't change anything, and a queen improves the one hand in his likely range that I'm currently beating.

I think the best line in this spot is to check-fold the flop and move on.

I guess it depends on if your shove was for value or if you were shoving as a bluff. On the turn I'm pretty sure we are behind and the Q didn't really improve our holding... Seems like a way ahead way behind scenario. You're really turning your two pair into a bluff here and I don't think it's bad... unfortunately it just didn't work.

I definitely think your hand is too strong to check fold the flop.

 

[krafticus]

So I think it's been long enough for results and discussion.

Preflop
Hero UTG ($275) with opens to $7.
Folds to Villain on BTN ($100) who 3-bets to $15.
Blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop ($28):
Hero checks. Villain thinks for a moment and bets $25. Hero calls.

Turn ($76):
Hero shoves for $60 effective, Villain calls and tables . River is the inconsequential case A and Villain takes the pot.

At the end of my session, I talked to @ni9n3r about the hand, and he seemed convinced that I played the hand right and it was just a cooler. However, after thinking about it a bit, I argued that I probably should have check-folded the flop. Here's why:

Most 1/2 players have an extremely small and strong preflop 3-betting range, especially when playing shallow stacks. For some it is KK+ only, while for most it is QQ+/AK. With a flop like this one, a preflop 3-bet from an unknown, and no club in my hand, I am way behind all of his likely holdings except QQ (which I block). The pot is small and I have zero room to improve on the turn: no flush or straight possibilities, an ace doesn't change anything, and a queen improves the one hand in his likely range that I'm currently beating.

I think the best line in this spot is to check-fold the flop and move on.

that hand would have qualified for the mini-bad beat jackpot at MD Live!. (10% of the bad beat). Aces full of 10's or J's is the min qualifier (at least, it used to be).

 

[Kain8]

Aw man, aces full of queens against aces full of kings wasn't even a mini bad beat jackpot? That's super lame.

But for me nailing the analysis of this hand:

 

[AWenger]

However, after thinking about it a bit, I argued that I probably should have check-folded the flop. Here's why:

Most 1/2 players have an extremely small and strong preflop 3-betting range, especially when playing shallow stacks. For some it is KK+ only, while for most it is QQ+/AK. With a flop like this one, a preflop 3-bet from an unknown, and no club in my hand, I am way behind all of his likely holdings except QQ (which I block). The pot is small and I have zero room to improve on the turn: no flush or straight possibilities, an ace doesn't change anything, and a queen improves the one hand in his likely range that I'm currently beating.

That's probably an accurate read of some tight 1/2 players, but when you saw this guy raise 2 of the last few pots he played after just recently joining the table, I think it would be hard to peg him as a tight player.

If it is the read that the Villian is only 3 betting with QQ+/AK, in that case, I'd probably rather fold pre-flop, rather than on the flop. (This brings to mind something about reverse implied odds mentioned in some of the strat threads here.)

 

[Schmendr1ck]

that hand would have qualified for the mini-bad beat jackpot at MD Live!. (10% of the bad beat). Aces full of 10's or J's is the min qualifier (at least, it used to be).

Almost - I believe there's a mini BBJ at HR Tampa for quad 2s beaten.

 

[Saoliver]

So I think it's been long enough for results and discussion.

Preflop
Hero UTG ($275) with opens to $7.
Folds to Villain on BTN ($100) who 3-bets to $15.
Blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop ($28):
Hero checks. Villain thinks for a moment and bets $25. Hero calls.

Turn ($76):
Hero shoves for $60 effective, Villain calls and tables . River is the inconsequential case A and Villain takes the pot.

At the end of my session, I talked to @ni9n3r about the hand, and he seemed convinced that I played the hand right and it was just a cooler. However, after thinking about it a bit, I argued that I probably should have check-folded the flop. Here's why:

Most 1/2 players have an extremely small and strong preflop 3-betting range, especially when playing shallow stacks. For some it is KK+ only, while for most it is QQ+/AK. With a flop like this one, a preflop 3-bet from an unknown, and no club in my hand, I am way behind all of his likely holdings except QQ (which I block). The pot is small and I have zero room to improve on the turn: no flush or straight possibilities, an ace doesn't change anything, and a queen improves the one hand in his likely range that I'm currently beating.

I think the best line in this spot is to check-fold the flop and move on.

Sunday afternoon play is probably much tighter than what I am use to. I generally play NL late into the night, both locally and in Vegas. I would say those tables are much more liberal with their raises, especially in position.

If you felt that this was anything more than a button raise and AA or KK was likely, you probably should have called pre-flop, and check/folded the flop, or even folded pre-flop and moved on. Out of position vs what you suspect is a made hand...bottom line, AQ generally sucks.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

That's probably an accurate read of some tight 1/2 players, but when you saw this guy raise 2 of the last few pots he played after just recently joining the table, I think it would be hard to peg him as a tight player.

If it is the read that the Villian is only 3 betting with QQ+/AK, in that case, I'd probably rather fold pre-flop, rather than on the flop. (This brings to mind something about reverse implied odds mentioned in some of the strat threads here.)

Maybe should have noted this in my OP, but he'd been there about 15 minutes and had played two hands: the first was a small pot lost when he raised an unopened pot from the button with A7o and got called down by SB with AJ on an A-high board. The other pot was a PFR, flop bet, and turn bet on another A-high board, two (I think?) opponents folded to the turn bet so I never saw Villain's cards.

IMO that's not really enough info to peg him as an overly aggressive player.

Also, I'm fine with calling pre and trying to smash the flop against a dominating range ($8 more to win $107), but when that doesn't happen I think I just need to check-fold because of RIO as you stated.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I guess it depends on if your shove was for value or if you were shoving as a bluff. On the turn I'm pretty sure we are behind and the Q didn't really improve our holding... Seems like a way ahead way behind scenario. You're really turning your two pair into a bluff here and I don't think it's bad... unfortunately it just didn't work.

I definitely think your hand is too strong to check fold the flop.

Definitely WAWB here, and in the heat of the hand I thought I was shoving for value. But afterward, I think a shove with my hand is an unintentional bluff for the reasons I've stated. I'm not getting called by worse like AJ on a flushy, straighty AKx board. Given his flop bet and the current SPR, I'm not getting better to fold (and almost all of his holdings are better by the turn).

 

[yone]

That’s a very tough hand, given the villain’s stack size and position. I enjoyed reading this and still thinking about it.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Thanks for the thread. I hated that flop ....and it turns out with good reason.

 

[jlb2782]

That's one tiny raise. Did he realize you had already opened UTG?

2 things make me suspect of villain's skill level, short stack and the tiny raise against an UTG open.

SB and BB action?

I assume they fold. I'd just call here with shallow stacks. Probably planning on stacking off with TPTK+.

Great thread. Question as I am still learning and trying to analyze. What does TPTK+ mean?? I am sure I am overlooking something.

 

[Saoliver]

Great thread. Question as I am still learning and trying to analyze. What does TPTK+ mean?? I am sure I am overlooking something.

Top pair with top kicker, or better.

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

Great thread. Question as I am still learning and trying to analyze. What does TPTK+ mean?? I am sure I am overlooking something.

Good question I was just nodding like I understood the whole time

 

[Forty4]

Edit too slow

 

[jlb2782]

Good question I was just nodding like I understood the whole time

Hahaha. Ive done that too many times.

Thanks guys. Appreciate it!!