utgtrash
Straight
do you know which company use to be in Los Angeles? was it TRK?
-
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Teach me how to be a chipper? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Flawed_Titan
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CrazyEddie
Full House
[Part Three]
So, with that knowledge baseline established, I can turn to your specific questions. These are great questions, by the way, and hopefully between my first two general information posts and this post with some specific answers, you'll have a decent foundation to get started on your chipping journey.
Beyond the five types of chips as a general guide, though, the only way to determine various chips' quality is for you to examine them yourself, with your own eyes, ears, and hands. This is why the PCF mantra is Get Samples. Quality is largely a matter of taste and preference, and your tastes and preferences will undoubtedly be different from anyone else's.
At the end of this post I'll try to give you an idea of the general consensus, though, because I'm sure you're curious about it and you'll find out soon enough anyway.
Injection mold:
Compression mold:
Injection molding is a highly-automated process. Compression molding is largely manual. This is one reason that injection molded chips are super-cheap and compression molded chips are crazy expensive.
Here's what injection molding typically looks like. This example is making flash drives, but making poker chips - or anything, really - would be similar (although this is just one example; there are many, many, many different ways to set up injection molding equipment).
Compression molding, however, is very different. Here's a good animation showing how compression molding works:
And here's an actual example of compression molding. This press is making just one part in each compression, whereas the press that Classic Poker Chips uses will make multiple chips in a single press cycle - but still only about twenty or so at once. The upshot is that there is a lot of manual labor involved in making parts with a compression mold.
When it comes to cheap injection-molded plastic chips, we mostly don't care about molds. But when it comes to compression-molded clays, we care about the molds quite a bit. The molds create the debossed (impressed) patterns around the outer edges, which gives each chip a unique appearance. For casinos, these patterns are part of the chips' security; it's difficult to create a chip that closely resembles some other chip if you don't have the same molds that were used to make it. For us collectors, different molds affect the way the chips look, and some of us like the looks of some molds better than others. The mold also affects things like how thick the chip is and what kind of texture its surface has, and that likewise influences how much different collectors like one mold over another.
Poker chip collector Robert Eisenstadt (who recently passed away) compiled a visual encyclopedia of as many different molds as he could find. It's not 100% complete, but it's still a very valuable reference. Take a quick skim to see what sorts of mold patterns have been used in the past: https://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesignindex_site.htm
That said, most of what's there is of mainly historical interest now. For modern collectors trying to build a playable set of chips for their home game, there are just a handful of relevant varieties:
Paulson was a company that made chips; that company is now part of Gaming Partners, Inc. The Paulson name is a well-recognized brand of chips. The company was actually called Paul-Son, and they supplied not just chips but many other gaming supplies to the casino industry (such as dice and tables). Paul-Son was named after its owner and founder Paul Endy Jr, who was a former employee of TR King and was also the son of Paul Endy Sr, who was a partner in TR King.
Paulson has several molds that they use to make chips, the most relevant of which are THC, RHC, and the casino house molds as I mentioned above. There are many more molds that Paulson has, but they're less commonly-used and less well-regarded.
Although Paulson has many molds besides hat-and-cane, there are several different varieties of mold just among the hat-and-cane molds:
Paulson used to sell chips to the home market, but they haven't done that in many years. So now the only ways to get Paulsons are as follows:
For low-end chips, use google and amazon and eBay to search for "poker chips". You'll find lots of retailers with a wide variety of designs. See if any appeal to you.
For ceramics, check out ABC Gifts and Awards to see if any of their stock designs look appealing.
For a variety of chips, both low end and high end (but good quality regardless), check out Apache Poker Chips.
For a variety of chips of all sorts, check out the Hobbyphilic video channel for reviews and showcases of many, many different chips.
For high-end chips (ceramics and higher, plus sometimes china clays and occasionally mass markets) check out the PCF classifieds. It's a great way to see what types of chips people who really like chips really like, and to find out what possibilities exist, as well as learn how much they cost. Also check out the Poker Chip Showcase forum to see tons and tons of pictures of amazing chips.
For custom chips, check out the PCF galleries, the PCF hall of fame, and the PCF Custom Poker Chips General forum.
Getting samples depends on what kind of chip you're trying to get samples of. Most retailers will sell samples of the same chips they sell in full sets; this especially includes Apache, who has samples of high-end chips as well. Samples of almost anything are available on eBay, although prices will be very high. Watch the PCF classifieds, although often the samples sold there are of very hard-to-get and valuable sets, which aren't really the kind of samples you want just to put your hands on them, those are more for collectors who want something specific. You can post a wanted ad asking for something in particular you're trying to get samples of, or you can reach out via PM to members who you think might be helpful.
Different ways to put graphic designs and/or text on a chip:
Here's examples of hotstamps on clay chips, plastic chips, and a cardboard box:
Hope that all helps! I have to go for now, but I'll answer your last few questions later on - although I'm sure others will have great answers for you anyway.
Be sure to ask follow-up questions! There's a lot here to learn. Search the site for specific terms and you'll often find posts which, either directly or more often indirectly, will give you the information you're looking for.
Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey!
So, with that knowledge baseline established, I can turn to your specific questions. These are great questions, by the way, and hopefully between my first two general information posts and this post with some specific answers, you'll have a decent foundation to get started on your chipping journey.
The first guide to quality is the type of chip. The five types I laid out above basically go from lowest quality to highest quality. Within each category you'll find a range of qualities, but the differences are small and often a matter of personal preference. So, for example, while there's very broad agreement that clay chips from Classic Poker Chips are dramatically better than generic mass-market plastic chips like dice chips, there can be and has been endless debate about whether CPC clays are better than Paulson clays, or which of the dozen different molds that CPC offers are better than the others.
Beyond the five types of chips as a general guide, though, the only way to determine various chips' quality is for you to examine them yourself, with your own eyes, ears, and hands. This is why the PCF mantra is Get Samples. Quality is largely a matter of taste and preference, and your tastes and preferences will undoubtedly be different from anyone else's.
At the end of this post I'll try to give you an idea of the general consensus, though, because I'm sure you're curious about it and you'll find out soon enough anyway.
Molds come in two varieties for the two main types of plastic molding processes - injection molding and compression molding. There's other types, but we're not concerned about them here. Here's what they look like:
Injection mold:
Compression mold:
Injection molding is a highly-automated process. Compression molding is largely manual. This is one reason that injection molded chips are super-cheap and compression molded chips are crazy expensive.
Here's what injection molding typically looks like. This example is making flash drives, but making poker chips - or anything, really - would be similar (although this is just one example; there are many, many, many different ways to set up injection molding equipment).
Compression molding, however, is very different. Here's a good animation showing how compression molding works:
And here's an actual example of compression molding. This press is making just one part in each compression, whereas the press that Classic Poker Chips uses will make multiple chips in a single press cycle - but still only about twenty or so at once. The upshot is that there is a lot of manual labor involved in making parts with a compression mold.
When it comes to cheap injection-molded plastic chips, we mostly don't care about molds. But when it comes to compression-molded clays, we care about the molds quite a bit. The molds create the debossed (impressed) patterns around the outer edges, which gives each chip a unique appearance. For casinos, these patterns are part of the chips' security; it's difficult to create a chip that closely resembles some other chip if you don't have the same molds that were used to make it. For us collectors, different molds affect the way the chips look, and some of us like the looks of some molds better than others. The mold also affects things like how thick the chip is and what kind of texture its surface has, and that likewise influences how much different collectors like one mold over another.
Poker chip collector Robert Eisenstadt (who recently passed away) compiled a visual encyclopedia of as many different molds as he could find. It's not 100% complete, but it's still a very valuable reference. Take a quick skim to see what sorts of mold patterns have been used in the past: https://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesignindex_site.htm
That said, most of what's there is of mainly historical interest now. For modern collectors trying to build a playable set of chips for their home game, there are just a handful of relevant varieties:
- THC - Top Hat and Cane. This is the main mold that Paulson used to use, and Paulson was and is the main supplier of chips to casinos in modern times. There are several different Paulson molds that have a top hat and cane, but here we use "THC" to mean one specific mold (well, three... but never mind that for now).
- RHC - Reverse Hat and Cane. This is another Paulson mold. It also has a top hat and cane, but two of the eight canes are reversed, pointing the opposite direction. There are some other differences between THC and RHC. RHC has become more commonly used than THC by casinos in recent years.
- House Molds - Many casinos have Paulson make their chips, but use a mold that's specific to the casino rather than one of the generic THC or RHC molds.
- TR King Small Crowns - TR King was another big supplier to casinos, and the Small Crowns mold was one of two molds that they used. Small Crowns TRKs are highly regarded by collectors and highly sought after.
- CPC Molds - Classic Poker Chips has about a dozen different molds that they can use, and customers can take their pick. If you get a set of custom clays, you'll get them from CPC, and choosing which mold to use is a major decision in the process of designing and ordering your custom chips.
- Burt / ASM Molds - These are essentially the same as the CPC molds, since Burt and ASM were the previous incarnations of the company now called CPC. However, the earlier companies had a slightly different assortment of molds that they could use. These molds are relevant to people who collect older sets, because the older sets were most often made by Burt or ASM.
Paulson was a company that made chips; that company is now part of Gaming Partners, Inc. The Paulson name is a well-recognized brand of chips. The company was actually called Paul-Son, and they supplied not just chips but many other gaming supplies to the casino industry (such as dice and tables). Paul-Son was named after its owner and founder Paul Endy Jr, who was a former employee of TR King and was also the son of Paul Endy Sr, who was a partner in TR King.
Paulson has several molds that they use to make chips, the most relevant of which are THC, RHC, and the casino house molds as I mentioned above. There are many more molds that Paulson has, but they're less commonly-used and less well-regarded.
Although Paulson has many molds besides hat-and-cane, there are several different varieties of mold just among the hat-and-cane molds:
- THC - Top Hat and Cane - this is the older version, still in use, and generally more well-regarded
- RHC - Reversed Hat and Cane - this is the newer version, more common today, and generally less well-regarded
- IHC - Inverted Hat and Cane - these are 43mm chips, i.e. large chips; the standard size of chip is 39mm
- Fat Hats - these are 48mm chips, even larger than the IHCs
Also, THC itself comes in two varieties: SCV (Short Cane Version) and LCV (Long Cane Version). Paulson doesn't distinguish between these two molds, and will make a given THC chip using either mold, often using one mold on one side and the other on the other side.
Paulson used to sell chips to the home market, but they haven't done that in many years. So now the only ways to get Paulsons are as follows:
- You can go to a casino, buy chips, and walk out the door with them. This is called "harvesting"; sometimes it's straightforward, other times it's difficult. It depends on how strict the casino is about letting people take lots of chips home with them. Search for "harvesting" on the forum to learn more about this, the circumstances under which it's easy or difficult, some tips to make it easier, and a giant debate about the legality and ethics of doing so. Also, you'll have to pay face value for the chips; that's fine for picking up $1 chips, but if you need a bunch of $25 or $100 chips in your home game that's going to get painfully expensive.
- Now and then a casino closes, or rebrands, or never opens in the first place, and the chips that they used or were planning to use become available for purchase all at once as a giant lot. Someone - very often Jim with The Chip Room - will buy up all the chips and then sell them in smaller lots to the PCF membership.
- People who in the past bought Paulson chips at retail, when that was still possible, eventually decide to sell their chips, or maybe their children turned them up in the attic and decided to sell them. These will show up in garage sales and craigslist and eBay, and the lucky observant few will snap them up.
- Regardless of how Paulson chips got into someone's hands to begin with, eventually they end up on the third-party market, which means they get into the hands of collectors like us, and we trade them on the PCF classifieds. So your best bet at finding Paulsons is to watch the classified ads right here.
For low-end chips, use google and amazon and eBay to search for "poker chips". You'll find lots of retailers with a wide variety of designs. See if any appeal to you.
For ceramics, check out ABC Gifts and Awards to see if any of their stock designs look appealing.
For a variety of chips, both low end and high end (but good quality regardless), check out Apache Poker Chips.
For a variety of chips of all sorts, check out the Hobbyphilic video channel for reviews and showcases of many, many different chips.
For high-end chips (ceramics and higher, plus sometimes china clays and occasionally mass markets) check out the PCF classifieds. It's a great way to see what types of chips people who really like chips really like, and to find out what possibilities exist, as well as learn how much they cost. Also check out the Poker Chip Showcase forum to see tons and tons of pictures of amazing chips.
For custom chips, check out the PCF galleries, the PCF hall of fame, and the PCF Custom Poker Chips General forum.
Getting samples depends on what kind of chip you're trying to get samples of. Most retailers will sell samples of the same chips they sell in full sets; this especially includes Apache, who has samples of high-end chips as well. Samples of almost anything are available on eBay, although prices will be very high. Watch the PCF classifieds, although often the samples sold there are of very hard-to-get and valuable sets, which aren't really the kind of samples you want just to put your hands on them, those are more for collectors who want something specific. You can post a wanted ad asking for something in particular you're trying to get samples of, or you can reach out via PM to members who you think might be helpful.
Different ways to put graphic designs and/or text on a chip:
- Hot stamps are metallic foil (usually gold but sometimes other colors) that are pressed into the slightly-melted surface of a chip (remember, chips are made out of plastic!). The specific design to be stamped onto the chip has to be made into a stamp (which is called a "die"), and then a machine is used to heat up the die and then manually stamp the design in foil onto the chip.
Both clay chips and plastic chips can be hotstamped, although not all clay chips and not all plastic chips can be hotstamped.
- Inlays are circles of paper or plastic that are printed in sheets, cut out into circles, and then pressed into the surface of clay chips during the compression-molding process.
- Decals are circles of paper or plastic that are printed in sheets, cut out into circles, and then glued onto the surface of mass-market or casino-quality plastic chips after the chip has been manufactured by the injection-molding process.
- Dye-sublimation printing is used to print onto ceramic chips.
Here's examples of hotstamps on clay chips, plastic chips, and a cardboard box:
Hope that all helps! I have to go for now, but I'll answer your last few questions later on - although I'm sure others will have great answers for you anyway.
Be sure to ask follow-up questions! There's a lot here to learn. Search the site for specific terms and you'll often find posts which, either directly or more often indirectly, will give you the information you're looking for.
Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey!
Last edited:
Yes, it was TRK.
utgtrash
Straight
Wow I visited them once to try to get a set made and never followed through. I wonder who it was I spoke with. Kind of a curmudgeonly guy.
OP
OP
Flawed_Titan
High Hand
Sorry al for ghosting. Crazy weekend with an old friend in town! I’ll have to wait till I get on a computer to sift through and reply to you all. Thanks so much for the replies!
CrazyEddie
Full House
OP
OP
Flawed_Titan
High Hand
@CrazyEddie
Dude this is exactly what I was hoping would come out of the woodwork. An actual masterclass to get me at least a bit caught up. As someone stated earlier, I’m trying to buy a car but I don’t know what a car is. Now I feel like I have some idea of what a car is, even if I’m not sure how it works.
One step at a time! Thanks again!
Dude this is exactly what I was hoping would come out of the woodwork. An actual masterclass to get me at least a bit caught up. As someone stated earlier, I’m trying to buy a car but I don’t know what a car is. Now I feel like I have some idea of what a car is, even if I’m not sure how it works.
One step at a time! Thanks again!
CrazyEddie
Full House
Glad we all could help! Enjoy your car shopping.
God damn incredible series of posts.
Re: Eisenstadt’s site:
Does anybody know if he or his estate have provided for the site’s long-term maintenance?
It would really be a terrible shame if all the data were lost because somebody didn’t pay GoDaddy or whoever their $5 a month.
If nothing else, maybe somebody should spider the whole site and keep it on a hard drive in case his heirs or whoever let it lapse.
CrazyEddie
Full House
The family said that they would maintain it, but honestly that could mean "we won't take it down" rather than "we'll be prompt and diligent about continuing to pay the monthly hosting fees for the next few decades".
You're dead right about preserving it. The Internet Archive looks like it's captured most of the site numerous times, but I don't think it's captured all of the pictures (does it even capture pictures?).
Maybe someone with time and knowhow could grab it... ??
You're dead right about preserving it. The Internet Archive looks like it's captured most of the site numerous times, but I don't think it's captured all of the pictures (does it even capture pictures?).
Maybe someone with time and knowhow could grab it... ??
We should copy @CrazyEddie 's posts and put it in a sticky thread titled Primer on Poker Chip Materials, or something.
OP
OP
Flawed_Titan
High Hand
Seconded
OP
OP
Flawed_Titan
High Hand
It was very helpful for me being a brand newbie
sleepypiggly
Straight
John Conor
Flush
Speaking of the Eisenstadt Estate. Here’s a link to the past estate sale auction, for those who missed it. It’s incredible to browse through some of the collection.
https://potterauctions.com/pdf/catalog_95web.pdf
1. Buy as many chips as humanly possible.
2. Sell the chips you don't like.
3. Buy more of the chips you like.
Everything else will work itself out naturally.
Great work on the consolidation write-ups, @CrazyEddie. Please combine those and repost to the PCF Resources section for easy future reference.
CrazyEddie
Full House
I'll put something together in the next few days, thanks for the feedback!
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
To be a good chipper you need to refresh the classifieds a lot and basically move in.
chillbill29
New Member
Welcome to the site. Lots of great info hear. One thing to consider is if you more cash games or tournaments. That will make a difference in what chips to aquire. I personally have 2 sets depending on the cash game stakes and 1 tournament set.Hey all,
Firstly I want to say I am new to this forum but in the past week, my experience here has been illuminating and very positive. I was hoping that you all could explain some things to me... the only problem is that I don't know what I don't know.
- How do I tell high quality chips from low quality chips?
- How can I assess brands of chips? Are there even brands of chips?
- What are molds, how are they used to create chips?
- What different molds do people usually collect from? (I'm not even sure if my questions are making sense at this point.)
- The top hat and cane variety... there's so much here. Speedy explanation please?
- Paulson chips - are they a brand, or a mold, or what? Why do people like them so much? How does one get Paulson chips?
- If I already know the breakdown I want for the beginnings of a set, how should I begin to collect/search for chips I like?
- Samples. How do I find them?
- There's so much more I have read on this forum and still don't understand at all, but I forgot those questions.
Anyways, I hope you guys can help me out? Maybe there is a quick and easy link to a masterclass thread on this stuff, but I haven't been able to find anything on google that I understand. Please treat me like an idiot and teach me like a five year old! Any random tips/thoughts/questions I SHOULD be asking are also welcome.
Cheers,
Flawed_Titan
Taorn
Sitting Out
Thank you for this series! It was super helpful!
Thank you!
Thank you!
@CrazyEddie
As another new member I want to thank you for taking the time for these extremely helpful posts! I'm a researcher at heart and I love to dig up all the little hard-to-find details of what I'm researching, but it's a lot easier to begin when I have a good foundation. You certainly provided that and I really appreciate the time you took to post these!
As another new member I want to thank you for taking the time for these extremely helpful posts! I'm a researcher at heart and I love to dig up all the little hard-to-find details of what I'm researching, but it's a lot easier to begin when I have a good foundation. You certainly provided that and I really appreciate the time you took to post these!
ctestb
High Hand
As a new comer, this is great reading and educational stuff. Thank you so much!
ParrotheadMZ
Flush
Buy
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BUY
Buy
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BUY
The universal stages of chipping
This threads needs more GIFS !
First, when joining PCF
"A dollar a chip.....what a bunch of Scrub Donkies"
After 27 days on PCF
I've bought my first set of clays....only paid $275/rack on average for my perfect breakdown
I don't need another set of chips for ever !
The idiots that could not beat my dibs are such scrub donkies
Fast forward 12 months
I own several casino & customs sets, building a nevada OG mixed set and hunting down single TRK's to complete my racks....paying $20 for a special chip...no sweat
LOL....Those scrub donkies don't recoginise SCV/LCV...i got this sh*t all worked out
wait for it
Last chip status known to man.........
Hi, I'm @bluegill.....IDGAF, i'm the ultimate scrub donkey...I can be whatever I wanna be
'I bid +$1000...keep the change'
'But....all my chips cost double digits/chip'
Or
Paulsons ? I have GPI on speeddial...going oversized customs next time...those scrub donkies don't suspect a thing
diablo2112
High Hand
Forgive the thread revival, but man, was this a useful set of posts! Thanks SO MUCH for the masterclass, indeed. Exactly what I was looking for.
Is there a quick way to tell Paulson chips from others? Is the THC/RHC exclusive to Paulson? Excuse the newb question, which undoubtedly been asked tons.
Is there a quick way to tell Paulson chips from others? Is the THC/RHC exclusive to Paulson? Excuse the newb question, which undoubtedly been asked tons.
HaRDHouSeiNC
Straight Flush
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2014
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CrazyEddie
Full House
Yes! You can tell by the edge mold.
Yes!
... well, no. Almost yes! Mostly yes. Close enough.
The first use of the THC mold was by Christie and Jones, and their chips were made by Burt Co. Then the mold got used by Paulson, but it was actually a different mold (even though it was the same mold). But that was a long time ago, and so it basically doesn't matter. Although sometimes it does. But not really.
... it's complicated. Read this thread, and in particular this post.
But. That one complication aside, in general you can tell who manufactured a chip by looking at the edge mold. Each different edge mold design is the property of one particular company and is only used by them for their own chips. Paulson edge molds include the several different (but similar) Top Hat and Cane designs, which include the ones that we refer to around here as THC, RHC, IHC, Fat Hats, and some other names. But Paulson has numerous other edge molds besides the hat and cane designs, and again, they are propriety to Paulson and no one else uses them. This thread is a pretty comprehensive catalog of all the various Paulson edge molds: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/paulson-th-c-indentification-and-amount-produced.9155/
And as far as the other manufacturers:
- Classic Poker Chips likewise has their own line of edge molds that they use and which no one else does. You can see them listed here: http://www.classicpokerchips.com/pokerchips/realclay/molddesigns.htm
- Since Classic Poker Chips used to be American Standard Molding which used to be Atlantic Standard Molding which used to be The Burt Company, you'll find many of these same molds used on chips made by CPC or ASM or Burt Co.
- T.R. King used two different edge molds, which we call Small Crowns and Large Crowns. Eventually TRK closed their doors, and some years later (only a few years ago) CPC started using the former TRK molds. This was quite a welcome development, and you can read more about it here: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/resurrection-of-the-tr-king-small-large-crown-molds.33865/
- The Blue Chip Company had a handful of different molds that they used (and again, nobody else did). Noteable ones include the T mold, the Medium Greek Key mold, and the Cigar and Snifter mold. But BCC got acquired by Gaming Partners, Inc, and is no longer making chips, and the BCC molds are essentially retired.
Hope this helped! And welcome to the forum.
diablo2112
High Hand
Hope this helped! And welcome to the forum.
Yes, very much. Thanks again for taking the time to document all these details.
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