Thoughts on my handling of one of my players, please (3 Viewers)

[ekricket]

We try to run as close to a casino as possible. RSVP’s are nice, but I’ll seat anyone who shows up in the first hour. If we don’t have enough seats then they are a standby player who can take the first seat that becomes available when someone is knocked out.

Life happens. Last night we had a guy who said he couldn’t make it ended up being free so he came over. We took his money.

I’m not a fan of blinding someone if they are late either. That only happens in home games. It’s fine, I’m not going to knock it, but if you show up at my game in the first hour you’ll get a full stack.

 

[wickedwonka121]

Nailed it. Pay up front. Good idea

 

[Taghkanic]

P.P.S. There’s a guy who used to play regularly but has become a “maybe” for every game I host. Has shown once in the last year.

His lamest sequence ever, when I bumped into him at the supermarket a few days before the game:

GUY: I can’t really play on Thursdays anymore, weekends would be better

ME: The game is now on Fridays

GUY: Oh, right… I should be able to make it then but I’ll confirm that morning

ME [suppressing eye-roll]: OK

[One hour before the game, still no confirmation]

ME, TEXTING: Playing?

GUY: No, it’s my son’s birthday

***** YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU DIDN’T REMEMBER FRIDAY WAS YOUR SON’S BIRTHDAY ****

 

[TheJestyr]

There’s a lot of great ideas in this thread! I’ve ran 2 and 3 table tourneys a bunch and depending on the group, I’ve handled things differently over the years.

Sometimes I tell the first couple people on the waitlist just to come about 30 mins late. This way if there’s any no shows, the WL players can still get in before blinds get too big. Also if anyone gets knocked out in the first 60 mins, we have sometimes allowed a WL player to buy in. Also, we usually start a cash game about 1.5 hours after the tourney starts, so even if they don’t get into the tourney, they can hang out, eat, drink, BS, watch some TV, etc. and then play the cash game when it starts.

I love the idea of prepay. We have had instances where we’ve had players give a healthy down payment to hold their seats and that’s stopped the problem of no shows for us. We’ve also just stopped invited no shows after two incidents. We don’t directly 86 them, but if they’re not on the main list, it’s pretty difficult for them to get a seat in some of the regular games/tourneys.

Sounds like you’re handling things well! It’s almost harder when it’s a “good guy” acting this way cuz you almost wish he was a jerk so you could boot him entirely haha…good luck! Keep us posted how it goes!!

 

[BigJackJones]

My suspicion is that he has no experience in organizing events and doesn't understand the results of his behavior.

Exactly this. Until you've run a regular multi-table game, you just won't get the work involved in keeping it going. I took pride in generating excitement by player experience and professionalism. This guy would have gradually (or immediately) blemished the experience of the other players. If one of your goals is to make a seat at your tables desirable, having a player continually disrespect it is way worse than an occasional empty seat, in my book.

I am fully behind player deposits upon entry. Players who want to be there will have no issue with a deposit toward buy in.

 

[Eriks]

P.P.S. There’s a guy who used to play regularly but has become a “maybe” for every game I host. Has shown once in the last year.

His lamest sequence ever, when I bumped into him at the supermarket a few days before the game:

GUY: I can’t really play on Thursdays anymore, weekends would be better

ME: The game is now on Fridays

GUY: Oh, right… I should be able to make it then but I’ll confirm that morning

ME [suppressing eye-roll]: OK

[One hour before the game, still no confirmation]

ME, TEXTING: Playing?

GUY: No, it’s my son’s birthday

***** YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU DIDN’T REMEMBER FRIDAY WAS YOUR SON’S BIRTHDAY ****

Give the guy a break, his wife probably hadn’t told him yet

 

[LowerBama1714]

Give the guy a break, his wife probably hadn’t told him yet

My wife enjoys telling me about birthdays 12 hours in advance…she’s pretty, so I put up with most of her bullshit like this.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Auto-waitlist is the nice answer, and probably appropriate for someone you are friendly with outside of poker. Someone you primarily know from poker? I'm ok with wait listing or just giving him the boot.

I'm not a huge fan of the pre-pay option for a home game. Sure, it gets dead money in the prize pool, but I'd rather have butts in seats.

 

[cpac54]

We have one guy in our group who does this all the time - signs up and then cancels day off. He gets put on the waiting list by default now.

 

[allforcharity]

I'm mining ideas from threads like these for lyrics for a new song, "Try That In A Small Home Poker Game"

 

[upNdown]

My suspicion is that he has no experience in organizing events and doesn't understand the results of his behavior.

I always appreciate that real poker players understand the importance of a seat. In my experience, it’s the occasional players - the guys who are friends, but not poker friends - who flake out like this. But you don’t want to just give up on them, because you want to keep your game growing, and maybe they’ll figure it out.

 

[Mr Winberg]

So this took a positive turn!

He contacted me, confused about being on the waiting list despite the event not being filled up. So I proceeded as planned:

to which I'll say that he's proved time and time again that "yes" means "maybe" when it comes from him. Fool me once etc, so I've finally recognized to interpret his yes's as maybies.

He, still a bit confused, asked if he was banned, and if so, why. I told him how I felt about his behavior, and how I felt about how dismissive he had been when we spoke about this in the past. I also truthfully told him that I wanted him to join, but wasn't sure how, given his behavior.

He apologized and didn't hold back. It was a real bro moment! We even discussed ethics like "you can cancel in the event, but if it's the same week please text as well, and if it's the same day you really need to call". Now after all of that I couldn't be like "btw, you need to prepay!". It wasn't the right thing to do IMO.

So fool me five times shame on me I guess...

 

[chippitydoodah]

I'm mining ideas from threads like these for lyrics for a new song, "Try That In A Small Home Poker Game"

So this took a positive turn!

He contacted me, confused about being on the waiting list despite the event not being filled up. So I proceeded as planned:

He, still a bit confused, asked if he was banned, and if so, why. I told him how I felt about his behavior, and how I felt about how dismissive he had been when we spoke about this in the past. I also truthfully told him that I wanted him to join, but wasn't sure how, given his behavior.

He apologized and didn't hold back. It was a real bro moment! We even discussed ethics like "you can cancel in the event, but if it's the same week please text as well, and if it's the same day you really need to call". Now after all of that I couldn't be like "btw, you need to prepay!". It wasn't the right thing to do IMO.

So fool me five times shame on me I guess...

Still...give him the wobbly chair at least

 

[allforcharity]

Still...give him the wobbly chair at least

Or maybe force him to wear that dick hat from another thread....

 

[Schmendr1ck]

 

[bergs]

We usually have @Josh Kifer handle the players. Maybe he can speak to his technique.

 

[Josh Kifer]

We usually have @Josh Kifer handle the players. Maybe he can speak to his technique.

Overhand grip. Light lube. Eye contact. Assert dominance.

 

[RagingAZN]

As an aside, keep on recruiting and getting more players on the list even if you are not increasing the number of available seats. I host one table every fortnight but have a potential player pool of about 30 players. 3 months ago I was struggling to fill one table now I can probably do 2-3 but choose not to because of the admin involved.

Now that I have so many players on the list, people RSVP early and stick to it otherwise they know they won’t be on the list for the next one.

 

[JP1984]

Love these types of threads, there are so many dickheads out there!

You've killed it, great approach, 10/10.

 

[louBdub]

more input.

I run a full year season, and the dates are completely built out from the start, to include the final table.

I made the players come and hand write their name in each slot at the beginning. A man must make his mark and is bound by his word kinda thing…

Once they put their name on a chair, they know they will get a 2 point penalty for not showing up. The season is extremely competitive, so not showing up is a big penalty…

 

[bergs]

Love these types of threads, there are so many dickheads out there!

You've killed it, great approach, 10/10.

Are you referring to OP or Kifer’s comment?

 

[Poker Zombie]

Given Sweden's preference of electronic payment vs actual cash, I like the pre-pay option. However, since he has had his moment of awakening, I'd let him off the hook one more time.

If he does it again, I'd ask for the money before he was put on the list. If he doesn't call/show, he gets a grace period (for us it is 1st break (1 hour in a 4.5 hour tourney). After the grace period is up his full stack goes in play without him and he gets blinded off.

If he calls saying he would be late, I would use the same procedure listed above (grace period, then live stack in play).

If he calls and says he cannot make it during the grace period, his money goes straight into the prize pool, and no chips would enter play. If he calls after the grace period and says... well anything... I would tell him he's already playing, and he has about X big blinds left.

 

[DuckFat]

I'm failing to see the issue here. Are all of your tournaments freeze outs with a player cap? The tournaments I play with friends here have a much less rigid structure. Start time is set, people always run late so the start time gets pushed back until 7-8 people have arrived, rebuys are unlimited until the end of the 6th level (2 hours after start), late entries allowed until the end of rebuys. Seating is 9 per table, it's usually 1-2 tables with a rare 3rd table. There are only 2 actual poker tables, the 3rd table is a folding table with a cheap green felt rolled out on it (that's the penalty you get for showing up late). Food and drinks not provided, much easier on logistics.

Pros of this format
-no cap to prize pool
-no shopping for the organizer
-no wait list, just keep adding tables if more people show
-built in penalty #1 - playing on folding tables with bad felt or bed sheets in the driveway
-built in penalty #2 - chairs can run out, substitute with weight benches, coolers, 5 gallon buckets, really anything to sit on, sometimes people learn and bring their own chair just in case

Cons
-no idea how many people will show up
-no idea when it will end due to variable start time and unlimited rebuys/late entries (it usually ends within the same 2 hour window)

 

[Mr Winberg]

I'm failing to see the issue here.

I only have 24 seats and I often have more than 24 people who want to play. You mention adding more tables, I can't do that. One player has frequently no-showed, meaning that the first player in the queue is robbed of a seat. That's the main issue. Robbing people of a poker night.

Then there's the other issue with people treating each other disrespectfully.

 

[Mr Winberg]

As an aside, keep on recruiting and getting more players on the list even if you are not increasing the number of available seats.

Of course! I'll be the first to tell anyone that if your game isn't growing, it's dying. The facebook group is 83 strong, but about 30 are inactive, they just haven't bothered to leave the group. If I hadn't kept recruiting it would have been a very small active group now!

 

[lolfdgb]

Hi PCF,

What are your thoughts of how I am handling this situation? Am I too harsh? Too soft? How would you handle it?

Background
I handle my tourney invites via Facebook events in my Facebook poker group. Those without Facebook are handled separately. For that reason, for each tourney I have a post in the group where I list

• No of seats
• No of seats spoken for (I specify the total and also how many that are spoken for outside the group, for clarity)
• No of availabe seats
• Queue (here I list the people in the queue, in order)

Needless to say, the queue is empty until all seats are spoken for.

However, one of my players has repeatedly claimed a seat only to no-show. One of these times I contacted him afterwards. He gave an excuse and ironically (my subjective interpretation) wrote "sorry for taking up 1/17 of your seats" (I only had 17 seats back then). I wanted to reply "don't apologize to me, apologize to Bob who was first in the queue but had to stay at home because of you", but instead I adopted the Swedish way and bit my tongue.

Other times he has no-showed but changed his answer in the event like an hour before the event (one time it was just 15 minutes!). The last hours before an event I'm busting my ass getting everything ready, it's very easy to miss last minutes changes. Every single time someone other than him has had to cancel the same day they have called! Not updated their status, not even texted, they have called!

My solution
So I had 16 out of 24 seats claimed, and then he signed up. So I listed 16 seats as claimed, 8 seats as available, and him as the single person in the queue. Today it has grown to 21 claimed, 3 free, and him in the queue. I see now that he has been made aware of this, and I'm expecting drama.

When he calls me about this I'll tell him that he only replied "maybe", hence the queue. He'll probably say like "no, my status is that I'm coming" to which I'll say that he's proved time and time again that "yes" means "maybe" when it comes from him. Fool me once etc, so I've finally recognized to interpret his yes's as maybies.

If he really wants to seat, he'll have to Venmo me the buy-in immediately without the possibility a refund, so if he no-shows, the money is in the pot.

Thoughts on my approach?

I genuinely like the approach– it's reasonable and mature. Both the pre-pay and the auto wait list are appropriate, and you're prioritizing the remaining players who do make an effort to respond in a timely manner. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[DuckFat]

I only have 24 seats and I often have more than 24 people who want to play. You mention adding more tables, I can't do that. One player has frequently no-showed, meaning that the first player in the queue is robbed of a seat. That's the main issue. Robbing people of a poker night.

Then there's the other issue with people treating each other disrespectfully.

So it is a freezeout with a hard cap at 24, no late entries to replace early eliminations. I would structure it as pay in advance to guarantee your seat, otherwise it's first come first serve on on tournament day. Send out the notice at the same time every week. Then you only have to manage the list of prepaid entries and not bother with a wait list.

It just seems like you take on more work with the list management than you need to. Maybe that works better for your crowd. My experience locally and in Vegas has always been that you can pre-register and pay in advance to guarantee your seat or register and pay upon arrival at the risk of being stuck in a queue should a poker room's tournament area be full.

The disrespect is a different issue entirely. I got that, sounded like you had it handled and I was only referring to the format and organization.

 

[Poker Zombie]

So it is a freezeout with a hard cap at 24, no late entries to replace early eliminations. I would structure it as pay in advance to guarantee your seat, otherwise it's first come first serve on on tournament day. Send out the notice at the same time every week. Then you only have to manage the list of prepaid entries and not bother with a wait list.

It just seems like you take on more work with the list management than you need to. Maybe that works better for your crowd. My experience locally and in Vegas has always been that you can pre-register and pay in advance to guarantee your seat or register and pay upon arrival at the risk of being stuck in a queue should a poker room's tournament area be full.

The disrespect is a different issue entirely. I got that, sounded like you had it handled and I was only referring to the format and organization.

It sounds like you play in more professional/casino games. Lists in home games are normal. It helps to adjust chip stacks or the blind structure to end at a predictable time. It helps the host know how many tables/chairs to set up. How much food to buy.

Hosting is a chore. It's made easy by fast, early responses, and hard by late decisions or last minute status changes. Non-hosts have no idea.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

It sounds like you play in more professional/casino games. Lists in home games are normal. It helps to adjust chip stacks or the blind structure to end at a predictable time. It helps the host know how many tables/chairs to set up. How much food to buy.

Hosting is a chore. It's made easy by fast, early responses, and hard by late decisions or last minute status changes. Non-hosts have no idea.

Exactly this. A home tourney is a very different beast than a casino game, and the work a host does is required to keep the game alive.

Home games draw from a much smaller player base, and winning money is rarely the main motivator for players. These games are frequently an opportunity for friends and acquaintances to get out of the house, have a good time, and needle their friends for a few days after winning. The money players win is secondary to these things.

To keep a game alive, hosts have to consistently fill seats and keep their existing player pool happy. These are much more important than a little dead money in the prize pool from a pre-pay who didn't show up.

 

[jpietrella]

With demand higher than capacity the solution is super simple. Just invite people in the order you want them to attend. Create an A list, B list etc. there can be more factors than reliability here in making distinctions. A fun whale is getting invited every time even if they flake out now and then. A nitty curmudgeon might be on the B list even if they are super dependable. They key is to curate a fun, good game.

A list gets early invite and priority.

B list gets later invite if seats are available.

Ass Clown list only gets invited when you need butts in seats, which might only be periodically.

No announcements or communication about the above is needed imo. Just do what you want.

Genius.