Not Mine Uhhhh 2x live $1k chips (1 Viewer)

[davislane]

Why its it unconscionable? What i find unconscionable is people trying to sell the other rubbish in there. If they arent prepared or interested to put in the effort to work out what is worth selling and what isnt I say fair game. Most members here have invested hundreds more like thousands of hours learning this hobby. Sometimes people are allowed to get a return on that investment IMO.

 

[mnebesny]

Question for anyone who cares to answer:

How much of a difference between asking price and market value would it take before you said "you know what, this is unconscionable, I'm gonna let the seller know that they're sitting on a gold mine instead of buying it for pennies" ?

I honestly don't know myself. I kinda feel like if they're asking at least 50% then they oughtta know what they're doing and so me getting a great deal is still a fair bargain, but if they're only asking 10% or less then buying it is basically stealing candy from children. So that's a pretty big range where I don't really know my own thoughts. But at least I know I've got some limits, in both directions.

I guess you also have to take into account distance. Those chips are only worth $1000 in Vegas, they aren't like cash. I've definitely seen $100 in chips for $90 on Craig's List before, just because the seller doesn't plan on going to Vegas in the near future. With the pandemic, people are even less likely to travel, so I could see selling at a discount just to unload them.

At the same time, when the chips get up into the $1000+ range, uninformed buyers run the risk of getting caught up in illegal activities. Think of the Bellagio Biker Bandit turning to selling the stolen chips online, or even some kind of money laundering scheme. Frankly, the act of simply walking up to the cashier with 2 $1000 chips, trying to cash them, and then walking out likely raises red flags with the casino, who is also trying to prevent theft, money laundering, etc. Plus the normal risks of transactions with online randos still exist. I would personally be leery to buy $1000 casino chips from someone online, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for someone with $2000 in chips to be selling them at half of face value or less.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I certainly agree that someone might offer $2k of chips for only $1k for the reasons you describe, knowing full well what they're worth but also realizing that converting them to cash in person could be both effort, risk, and expense they'd rather not take on.

But that wasn't what my question was about. I didn't state it explicitly but I will now - at what price differential (maybe a percentage, maybe an absolute figure) are you no longer happy to profit from the ignorance of a seller who is obviously unaware of something's actual value?

I'm not specifically asking about this particular case, but I will note incidentally that selling $2000 worth of live poker chips in a mixed lot containing a bunch of $1 and worthless chips, with a starting bid of ten dollars, doesn't seem like the action of someone who knows what they're worth and is merely trying to avoid the hassle of a trip to Vegas.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

I guess you also have to take into account distance. Those chips are only worth $1000 in Vegas, they aren't like cash. I've definitely seen $100 in chips for $90 on Craig's List before, just because the seller doesn't plan on going to Vegas in the near future. With the pandemic, people are even less likely to travel, so I could see selling at a discount just to unload them.

At the same time, when the chips get up into the $1000+ range, uninformed buyers run the risk of getting caught up in illegal activities. Think of the Bellagio Biker Bandit turning to selling the stolen chips online, or even some kind of money laundering scheme. Frankly, the act of simply walking up to the cashier with 2 $1000 chips, trying to cash them, and then walking out likely raises red flags with the casino, who is also trying to prevent theft, money laundering, etc. Plus the normal risks of transactions with online randos still exist. I would personally be leery to buy $1000 casino chips from someone online, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for someone with $2000 in chips to be selling them at half of face value or less.

Mail them to the casino
I heard most will send you a check
Tell them you forgot them in your pocket on the way to the strip club XD

 

[kmccormick100]

Question for anyone who cares to answer:

How much of a difference between asking price and market value would it take before you said "you know what, this is unconscionable, I'm gonna let the seller know that they're sitting on a gold mine instead of buying it for pennies" ?

I honestly don't know myself. I kinda feel like if they're asking at least 50% then they oughtta know what they're doing and so me getting a great deal is still a fair bargain, but if they're only asking 10% or less then buying it is basically stealing candy from children. So that's a pretty big range where I don't really know my own thoughts. But at least I know I've got some limits, in both directions.

She accepted my offer that was substantially larger than the opening bid price, but obviously much less than the live chips are worth. If she’d listed them with a BIN of $20 or something I’d feel slightly guiltier. I’d also obviously never tell her that they’re live and worth $2k, or ever message her after they’d sold to tell her the same, what’s the point of deal hunting on eBay if you’re going to tell somebody that they shouldn’t sell something to you for x good price?

Cashing two $1k chips also isn’t as easy as walking up to the cage and just handing them over usually, I know people who have been back roomed at the Wynn for cashing in $5k chips previously won as tourney payouts without being able to prove where they got them. If these chips I paid for and have tracking for actually show up and I didn’t get fu%^+d by somebody on here, I’m probably going to have to play some $5/10 at the Wynn in June to get them cashed on a table to avoid any red flags.

 

[CrazyEddie]

what’s the point of deal hunting on eBay if you’re going to tell somebody that they shouldn’t sell something to you for x good price?

I appreciate that viewpoint but I somewhat disagree.

In my view, a good deal is between two informed parties who, for whatever reason, value something differently; this difference in value is the fundamental basis for economic growth and prosperity ("The division of labour, from which so many advantages are derived, is the necessary consequence of the human propensity to truck, barter, and exchange one thing for another." - Adam Smith).

I think what some people are looking for when hunting on eBay is not a good deal but rather a lucky windfall. In such cases it's not the seller's differing values but rather more simply their ignorance of what they have that provides the profit in the exchange, with the entirety of that profit going to the buyer. I personally don't feel all that comfortable exploiting someone's ignorance. A good deal means both sides are better off. Buying treasures for junk prices leaves the seller worse off, much worse off, and it's only the buyer's silence that keeps them from knowing it.

I'm not trying to argue that I'm right; I'm genuinely interested in other people's thoughts, and in particular their thoughts about where the line between a deal and a steal lies, if indeed any such line exists.

 

[Rieguy]

I appreciate that viewpoint but I somewhat disagree.

In my view, a good deal is between two informed parties who, for whatever reason, value something differently; this difference in value is the fundamental basis for economic growth and prosperity ("The division of labour, from which so many advantages are derived, is the necessary consequence of the human propensity to truck, barter, and exchange one thing for another." - Adam Smith).

I think what some people are looking for when hunting on eBay is not a good deal but rather a lucky windfall. In such cases it's not the seller's differing values but rather more simply their ignorance of what they have that provides the profit in the exchange, with the entirety of that profit going to the buyer. I personally don't feel all that comfortable exploiting someone's ignorance. A good deal means both sides are better off. Buying treasures for junk prices leaves the seller worse off, much worse off, and it's only the buyer's silence that keeps them from knowing it.

I'm not trying to argue that I'm right; I'm genuinely interested in other people's thoughts, and in particular their thoughts about where the line between a deal and a steal lies, if indeed any such line exists.

I think your initial sentiment applies well to a place like PCF.

However, with the third paragraph, my thinking is if you are willing to sell something at a fixed/set price on a site that is mainly built around auctions and trying to extract the highest value, then kneecapping yourself and prematurely taking an offer or having a BIN based off of their own ignorance is not the responsibility of the buyer. I have no moral qualms there, like I might with FB Marketplace, Craigslist, etc. Maybe it sucks for the seller, but doing research and letting an auction take its course is completely on the seller when it comes to eBay.

 

[TheDuke]

Question for anyone who cares to answer:

How much of a difference between asking price and market value would it take before you said "you know what, this is unconscionable, I'm gonna let the seller know that they're sitting on a gold mine instead of buying it for pennies" ?

I honestly don't know myself. I kinda feel like if they're asking at least 50% then they oughtta know what they're doing and so me getting a great deal is still a fair bargain, but if they're only asking 10% or less then buying it is basically stealing candy from children. So that's a pretty big range where I don't really know my own thoughts. But at least I know I've got some limits, in both directions.

Interesting question.

The way people answer probably depends on what they're acquiring and what they intend for that purchase.

Seems like people here are constantly scouring different avenues looking for chips. Craigslist, estate sales, eBay, etc etc.

Some people love the thrill of the hunt and finding obscure chips for their collections. Others are looking to resell for profit.

For resellers, buying things at 'fair market value' is of no use. For collectors, they probably don't mind finding it for cheap but are also likely to pay above perceived market price to acquire rare chips.

It's really no different than the broader activity of people scouring markets and garage sales looking for antiques and other valuable items that sellers have no idea about.