What did this guy do wrong? (1 Viewer)

[flipkick]

I'm a little confused as to what this guy did wrong. He hits the flush and the winning hand and then he mucks? But he checked? What happened here, and why did he get in trouble? To me it looks like he mucks his winning hand which of course happens all the time, but the commentators mention he checked behind his opponent? Of course, if you hit the nuts you should bet but it should be well within his rights to check if he wants too. He ended up forfeiting his next orbit.

 

[GianThaMan]

I think it's against the rules of the EPT to muck the winning hand, so he got a penalty. It's a silly rule because they're screwing themselves over, not anyone else, so they shouldn't be penalized, but such is life.

 

[detroitdad]

Rules in place that you have to bet the winning hand are usually there to prevent collusion I believe.

 

[toynoob]

I'm a little confused as to what this guy did wrong. He hits the flush and the winning hand and then he mucks? But he checked? What happened here, and why did he get in trouble? To me it looks like he mucks his winning hand which of course happens all the time, but the commentators mention he checked behind his opponent? Of course, if you hit the nuts you should bet but it should be well within his rights to check if he wants too. He ended up forfeiting his next orbit.

The rule protects players from collusion

 

[Jonesey07]

You have to bet the river if you have the nuts and you're last to act. It's against tournament rules to check in that spot.

 

[Highli99]

Yeah I got warning on my first wsop hand ever because I flopped Broadway with JQ and on the river it was 4 cards to straight when it went raise, Re-reraise, Re-raise I just called figuring it was a split pot and my nerves were so high from not wanting to bust early and I was petrified I might misread the board. But you have to raise with the nuts hence the warning I got. People were nice about it I was obviously out of place and nervous and it was obv a split pot situation.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

I believe it's considered a form of soft play. If you have the best possible hand, you must bet/raise it.

 

[BGinGA]

I'm a little confused as to what this guy did wrong. He hits the flush and the winning hand and then he mucks? But he checked? What happened here, and why did he get in trouble? To me it looks like he mucks his winning hand which of course happens all the time, but the commentators mention he checked behind his opponent? Of course, if you hit the nuts you should bet but it should be well within his rights to check if he wants too. He ended up forfeiting his next orbit.

He didn't muck, he checked and tabled his hand (expecting to lose). He didn't realize the river card made him a flush; he thought he had ace-high.

But tournament rules prohibit not increasing the bet when holding the nuts on the river IF closing the action. Note that he also cannot just call a bet if his opponent had bet instead of checked -- as last to act, he MUST raise or bet when holding the nuts.

It's an anti-collusion anti-softplay rule. Typical penalty for first offense is to sit out an orbit. Subsequent offenses can result in disqualification.

 

[JMC9389]

I was today years old when I learned this. Heh.

I do understand why this rule is in place, but jeez, I'm with @Highli99 here. What if this is an amateur that doesn't realize they have the nuts and get nervous that they may be misreading the board?

 

[BGinGA]

I was today years old when I learned this. Heh.

I do understand why this rule is in place, but jeez, I'm with @Highli99 here. What if this is an amateur that doesn't realize they have the nuts and get nervous that they may be misreading the board?

The TD usually has some discretion on applying warnings/penalties.

But if you were actually softplaying or colluding with your buddy, wouldn't you make it ~look~ like you were a newbie ignorant of such a rule?

That's what makes granting exceptions by TDs difficult (or even unwise), especially when they don't know the players.

 

[Anthony Martino]

as an example, husband and wife are in the final three. On the river the husband has the nuts and is last to act, but doesn't bet because he doesn't want to knock his wife out in 3rd place

That's unfair to the 3rd player still in, as they are softplaying one another which affects his bottom line

 

[tabletalker7]

Is this rule and penalty because he was last to act with the nuts and checked? If you are first to act with the nuts, do you have to bet or is a check-raise still a play?

 

[Thomacetti]

But tournament rules prohibit not increasing the bet when holding the nuts on the river IF closing the action. Note that he also cannot just call a bet if his opponent had bet instead of checked -- as last to act, he MUST raise or bet when holding the nuts.

 

[tabletalker7]

So if he was first to act the check-raise is still in play?

 

[Thomacetti]

yes

 

[upNdown]

I remember being in a NH cardroom and this rule came up and it was explained and discussed. There were a couple of old ladies at the table who were bothered by this rule because “how would I know if I had the nuts?”
If you don’t know when you have the nuts, you’re playing the wrong game.

 

[BGinGA]

Is this rule and penalty because he was last to act with the nuts and checked? If you are first to act with the nuts, do you have to bet or is a check-raise still a play?

You only have to bet/raise if you are last to act. If three players have live hands, you can just call a bet (or check) if acting first or second. You just cannot close the action without betting or raising the current bet.

 

[MatB]

I love (sarcasm) how angry the player in the hand is after. "Who the f*&^ is this guy?"

Like people dont ever make mistakes. STFU shiny hat guy.

 

[HobokenNJ]

If you don’t know when you have the nuts, you’re playing the wrong game.

Isn't this the type of player you want to be playing against?

 

[legonick]

I'm a little confused as to what this guy did wrong. He hits the flush and the winning hand and then he mucks? But he checked? What happened here, and why did he get in trouble? To me it looks like he mucks his winning hand which of course happens all the time, but the commentators mention he checked behind his opponent? Of course, if you hit the nuts you should bet but it should be well within his rights to check if he wants too. He ended up forfeiting his next orbit.

Forget what he was holding? LOL.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I remember being in a NH cardroom and this rule came up and it was explained and discussed. There were a couple of old ladies at the table who were bothered by this rule because “how would I know if I had the nuts?”
If you don’t know when you have the nuts, you’re playing the wrong game.

If you don't know when you have the nuts, you're playing exactly the right game, and please come sit at my table when you play it.

 

[Taghkanic]

If you don’t know when you have the nuts, you’re playing the wrong game.

I disagree... If you don’t know when you have the nuts, please sit at my table.

[Edit: ERP. Ditto]

 

[MatB]

Ive folded the nuts at several meet ups.

I think its why im allowed back.


edit: No. I'm SURE its why.