What do you do when you’re ridiculously stuck in a session? (2 Viewers)

[Anthony Martino]

Also I’m not tracking bad beats so closely, dwelling on those might be adding to your frustration?

This is one I still struggle with. If you're taking bad beats, it means you are playing well and your opponents are making mistakes, which is what you want (i.e. you should be happy about it). But it can be difficult to be happy about it when it happens over and over and over again ad nauseum.

 

[detroitdad]

I will find out in a couple days when @detroitdad takes all my money playing circus games

Brush up on Draw2maha, SOHE, and Gods game!!

 

[Rhodeman77]

Don't ask me.... I'm the guy that will buy in 6, 10 or more times a night just so I can keep playing. Quitting is not a strength of mine.

This is so much me. I’ve never quit my own home game and very rarely have ever left someone’s home game before it broke.

in a casino once I have gone broke that is it. I don’t use an ATM card so I don’t have to worry about being tempted to try to get more cash.

 

[detroitdad]

This is so much me. I’ve never quit my own home game

I've been tempted to do this once or twice when I would be four buy ins deep within 90 minutes.

 

[Legend5555]

in a casino once I have gone broke that is it. I don’t use an ATM card so I don’t have to worry about being tempted to try to get more cash.

My protection is my wife watches the back accounts pretty closely. And she plays poker as well. So she isn't going to let me get away with anything dumb like that.

 

[JustDave]

Just like investing, have an exit strategy. Either up or down, know how you plan on getting out.

 

[MrCatPants]

I have to ask. Safe to assume you were playing pot limit, not fixed limit? Because loosing 600 big bets in two hours in a split pot game would be a significant feat.

Yeah. It was like texts from multiple players after I left level of run bad. Ace high flush against straight flush, top set against bottom two on rainbow board and runner runner brings home a backdoor flush etc.. Honestly never run that bad in a session ever....just kinda stunning.

 

[detroitdad]

Yeah. It was like texts from multiple players after I left level of run bad. Ace high flush against straight flush, top set against bottom two on rainbow board and runner runner brings home a backdoor flush etc.. Honestly never run that bad in a session ever....just kinda stunning.

That doesn't tilt me. As long as I played the hands the "right way", but continued to get unlucky is just part of the game. I'll keep rebuying all day long. Just because you got unlucky doesn't mean that you played it right btw. I've gotten unlucky, but for example I was slow playing my nut flush and allowed my opponent to catch up. It was mostly my fault. Make sure you correctly evaluate your play for each situation.

 

[MrCatPants]

That doesn't tilt me. As long as I played the hands the "right way", but continued to get unlucky is just part of the game. I'll keep rebuying all day long. Just because you got unlucky doesn't mean that you played it right btw. I've gotten unlucky, but for example I was slow playing my nut flush and allowed my opponent to catch up. It was mostly my fault. Make sure you correctly evaluate your play for each situation.

Wasn't tilted. Just eventually had a 'well, this isn't going to be my night' moment and bowed out of the game.

 

[Chawks45]

A bad run happened to me this weekend at my own home game. One of my big table rivals felted me four times, one coming on a brutal river suckout. I normally get the best of him, but damn if he didn't have my number this time around in a big way. @tdccarpenter was watching in amazement as I kept shipping my stack to the guy.

Under normal circumstances if I was either at someone else's home game or the casino, I probably would've left after the second bust. But as the host, I rebought multiple times since it would've been weird to sit out my own game. I did, however, get up from the table after the third and fourth time to take a walk around the house.

@Anthony Martino's advice to go for a walk is dead on. I often do that when at a casino if I find myself near the tilt point.

It's a sick game we play.

 

[DrStrange]

Every Hero needs a hard loss limit. Hit that level of losses and it is time to go home.

Additionally, Hero should be racking up when feeling tilted. I admit this is easy to type and far harder to do at the time.

There is a different issue that I see in Hero's original post. If Hero's recounting of disasters was accurate, I fear the game was crooked. Just how well did Hero know the host, dealers and other players?

Hero played ~300 hands and suffered a year's worth of hard luck disasters. Set over set is a pretty rare event. It is not something expected once every 40 hands, again and again over the entire session. Second nut hands that lose to the nut isn't all that common in hold'em either. But all of these events are the sort of things that might happen in a questionable game.

[ editing in a bit of math. You get a pair once every 17 hands, If you never fold any pair, you flop a set once every 130 hands. Hero was astonishing lucky to catch a set every ninety minutes / 40 hands for eleven hours. And then to get so unlucky to be up against the bigger set every time. Lady luck can be cruel, but this is too many bad events in a short time. The time to go home came quickly. and Hero shouldn't go back either. ]

Normally, I put these sorts of stories down to bad memories, "fish" stories and too much drink. Who bothers to run a slick cheating operation in a $50 buy-in poker game? ( sure there might be cheating, but not a slick operation ) But Hero's game has $400,000 on the table. Those sorts of stakes makes a professional cheating operation entirely plausible.

Hero lost $80,000 this session. One could imagine a pretty good business model cheating a new mark each session. I wouldn't be staying for eleven hours in this sort of environment. I guess it could be nothing but bad luck. However, I wouldn't be taking the chance at some random underground card room with five figure buy-ins.

It seems to me that situational awareness is essential in these sorts of games / stakes -=- DrStrange

 

[detroitdad]

A bad run happened to me this weekend at my own home game. One of my big table rivals felted me four times, one coming on a brutal river suckout. I normally get the best of him, but damn if he didn't have my number this time around in a big way. @tdccarpenter was watching in amazement as I kept shipping my stack to the guy.

Under normal circumstances if I was either at someone else's home game or the casino, I probably would've left after the second bust. But as the host, I rebought multiple times since it would've been weird to sit out my own game. I did, however, get up from the table after the third and fourth time to take a walk around the house.

@Anthony Martino's advice to go for a walk is dead on. I often do that when at a casino if I find myself near the tilt point.

It's a sick game we play.

I've definitely taken a break at my own house for a few hands. I'll pour a drink and step upstairs to visit with the wife for a few minutes.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Every Hero needs a hard loss limit. Hit that level of losses and it is time to go home.

Additionally, Hero should be racking up when feeling tilted. I admit this is easy to type and far harder to do at the time.

There is a different issue that I see in Hero's original post. If Hero's recounting of disasters was accurate, I fear the game was crooked. Just how well did Hero know the host, dealers and other players?

Hero played ~300 hands and suffered a year's worth of hard luck disasters. Set over set is a pretty rare event. It is not something expected once every 40 hands, again and again over the entire session. Second nut hands that lose to the nut isn't all that common in hold'em either. But all of these events are the sort of things that might happen in a questionable game.

Normally, I put these sorts of stories down to bad memories, "fish" stories and too much drink. Who bothers to run a slick cheating operation in a $50 buy-in poker game? ( sure there might be cheating, but not a slick operation ) But Hero's game has $400,000 on the table. Those sorts of stakes makes a professional cheating operation entirely plausible.

Hero lost $80,000 this session. One could imagine a pretty good business model cheating a new mark each session. I wouldn't be staying for eleven hours in this sort of environment. I guess it could be nothing but bad luck. However, I wouldn't be taking the chance at some random underground card room.

It seems to me that situational awareness is essential in these sorts of games / stakes -=- DrStrange

People cheat at free online games just so they can get on the leaderboard. Add money into the mix and you'll definitely find folks looking for an angle.

I saw a guy who was marking cards in a 3/6 limit Omaha hi/lo game, any amount of money folks will look to gain an edge.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I've definitely taken a break at my own house for a few hands. I'll pour a drink and step upstairs to visit with the wife for a few minutes.

There's a joke about the few minutes in here somewhere..........

 

[detroitdad]

There's a joke about the few minutes in here somewhere..........

lol........

 

[CraigT78]

I knew the crazy good run I was having had to end at some point, and it did last night.

Last night was a $50/$100 NLH home game, with $40k average stacks when we started.

I was either card-dead for long periods of time or when I did have something, I almost always (70-75% of the time) ended up with second nuts.

In a 11-hour session, I got cracked in the following ways:

- 7 middle or bottom sets beaten by top or middle sets.
- 2 full houses beaten by bigger boats.
- 5 flushes beaten by bigger flushes.
- 4 runner-runner cracks after all-in pushes.

AND some insane chops with villains hitting one or two outers. The most egregious one of all:

I call 3x BB from villain in late position from the button with 58 suited.

Flop is rainbow 4 7 6.

To my absolute amazement, we are all-in with multiple raises after the flop. Villain turns over 35 unsuited.

We agree to run it twice.

He spikes an 8 on BOTH boards.

My question is, when you have nights like this, when do you stop? How stuck is stuck enough before calling it quits? I’m a pretty level-headed player, but I couldn’t see the forest through the trees.

3 buy ins. That's my poker night hard stop.

5 buy ins if it's a meetup.

 

[MrCatPants]

3 buy ins. That's my poker night hard stop.

5 buy ins if it's a meetup.

Do you keep this when you are hosting? I just start playing extremely tight at a certain point if I normally would leave the game if it wasn't mine.

 

[ninedeuce]

Every Hero needs a hard loss limit. Hit that level of losses and it is time to go home.

Additionally, Hero should be racking up when feeling tilted. I admit this is easy to type and far harder to do at the time.

There is a different issue that I see in Hero's original post. If Hero's recounting of disasters was accurate, I fear the game was crooked. Just how well did Hero know the host, dealers and other players?

Hero played ~300 hands and suffered a year's worth of hard luck disasters. Set over set is a pretty rare event. It is not something expected once every 40 hands, again and again over the entire session. Second nut hands that lose to the nut isn't all that common in hold'em either. But all of these events are the sort of things that might happen in a questionable game.

Normally, I put these sorts of stories down to bad memories, "fish" stories and too much drink. Who bothers to run a slick cheating operation in a $50 buy-in poker game? ( sure there might be cheating, but not a slick operation ) But Hero's game has $400,000 on the table. Those sorts of stakes makes a professional cheating operation entirely plausible.

Hero lost $80,000 this session. One could imagine a pretty good business model cheating a new mark each session. I wouldn't be staying for eleven hours in this sort of environment. I guess it could be nothing but bad luck. However, I wouldn't be taking the chance at some random underground card room with five figure buy-ins.

It seems to me that situational awareness is essential in these sorts of games / stakes -=- DrStrange

This is pretty much the story of Derek DelGaudio:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/p...agician-who-used-his-skills-to-cheat-at-cards

 

[CraigT78]

Do you keep this when you are hosting? I just start playing extremely tight at a certain point if I normally would leave the game if it wasn't mine.

I probably will go 5 deep if I'm hosting. But I've also been known to quit playing and deal, or start cleaning up. It doesn't affect the stop time. The guys will play without me until 3:30.

 

[Organista1]

It really isn’t about how much you’re up or down, but more so the mental state. If you’re fresh and thinking clearly, then you can still play your optimal game...there’s potential to climb out of the hole.

But once your decision making becomes spewy (even if it’s only 1x rebuy or 10x rebuy), then it’s not optimal to continue.

I agree 100 percent that it is mental state. It is difficult for me to realize especially if I lose early and fast due to luck, that I’m stuck and I’m trying to make it back quick by playing loose. And sometimes it’s not your night.

 

[BukNaked36]

I'm an engineer so

I probably will go 5 deep if I'm hosting. But I've also been known to quit playing and deal, or start cleaning up. It doesn't affect the stop time. The guys will play without me until 3:30.

I always think offering to deal is a nice way to still be a social part of a home game when you just can't play anymore.

 

[detroitdad]

I always think offering to deal is a nice way to still be a social part of a home game when you just can't play anymore.

I'd rather rebuy a sixth time than be a dedicated dealer lol.

 

[Nanook]

It was hard to tell when I was in it, but in analyzing my play today, I was definitely on the worst kind of tilt — where you think you’re making good decisions, but you’re really not. Case in point is calling the 3bb raise with 58s in the example above. I ended up losing about 800 big blinds last night, probably my worst night in a long time.

i’m still way up overall, but the notes about thinking clearly really stick out.

When you are really running bad there is almost always some element of playing bad as well. Tilt is just another word that describes playing bad & making bad decisions that you wouldn't normally make. Looking back at your session, for the portion after you were already down 400bb, do you feel like you played better, worse or the same as you did in the 1st hour? My experience tells me that you and most everyone plays worse. There is a lot of psychology in poker and playing well all of the time is just not realistic. Getting up and walking away is a learned skill. It is tough to do, but sometimes it is absolutely 100% the best decision you can make.

 

[Kidsthesedays]

I bring 2.5 buy ins with me. If I lose that I’m going to eat. The game will be there when I’m ready.

 

[Taghkanic]

1) @Windwalker To @DrStrange ’s concern… Was this your own game? If not, how well do you know the players/host? Self-dealt or dedicated dealer? We all experience ridiculous yet legit runbad now and then even in the most honest games. But if there was any doubt about the integrity of the game, and if one feels at all like a mark, obviously that’s a moment to leave and never go back to that room.

2) Like @Rhodeman77 my only self-imposed limits are that I never hit the ATM let alone borrow from another player. How much I’ll bring to a game varies depending on the venue, but seldom less than 3 or more than 5 buy-ins. The extra I hope to use more for topping off than rebuys, ideally, but sometimes you just run into it. At my own home I play until the game breaks, so in theory I could lose more; but that hasn’t happened… yet.

3) Most good commentators I’ve followed in books and podcast seem to frown on stop-loss limits *if and only if* you can be honest and not get tilted about why you’re losing. Big if, that… If you’re able to honestly say “I’ve played well, and would play those losing hands the same way next time; this is genuine runbad; I still feel clear and sharp; and I’m not tilted,” then in theory it does not matter whether you keep playing or wait until next time to see more hands. It’s just one long succession of hands, right? Problem is, who really can make that self-assessment 100% honestly?

4) Bankroll and stakes of course matter. If you’re playing for stakes you’re comfortable with, and your losses are not going to change your life whether you’re down 3 buy-ins or 10, then the decision to keep playing has got to be easier. (I suppose if you were blowing 10 buy-ins several times a week, that would suggest a problem even if the losses were trivial to you.) If your bankroll were down to 10 buy-ins let alone if you are playing with money you need for rent/food/healthcare/etc., then step away. In the latter case, don’t play at all. That’s hardly your situation, I gather, but thought it worth saying.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I usually have a preset limit, but I’m also always monitoring my play to make sure I’m not getting outplayed. I’m more likely to continue playing if people are getting miracles against me.

Anthony partially got my response to this:

This is one I still struggle with. If you're taking bad beats, it means you are playing well and your opponents are making mistakes, which is what you want (i.e. you should be happy about it). But it can be difficult to be happy about it when it happens over and over and over again ad nauseum.

In theory, @shorticus is completely correct. When players are getting money in bad and hitting miracles, that's exactly the time you should be in the game. Bad players with big stacks are a recipe for a very good session. But only if your mental state is good and you're playing well - and that's the key point of this thread.

My rules about walking, notes, etc. are designed to protect me from myself - especially when the game is good and I'm drooling at the prospect of putting stacks in against bad players.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

This is so much me. I’ve never quit my own home game and very rarely have ever left someone’s home game before it broke.

in a casino once I have gone broke that is it. I don’t use an ATM card so I don’t have to worry about being tempted to try to get more cash.

Yeah, I'm the same with not quitting my own game no matter how badly I'm running, though I've only gotten in more than 3-4 BI a couple times over the years. I don't have an issue leaving someone else's game before it's over if I'm very stuck and tilted. Most hosts get it and don't have a problem with it.

In a casino, I take 3-4 BI in cash, and when it's gone it's gone. My ATM card never under any circumstances goes into a casino ATM.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

@Anthony Martino's advice to go for a walk is dead on. I often do that when at a casino if I find myself near the tilt point.

Hey, don't give him credit! That was MY advice!

(And several people in the thread before me.)

3 buy ins. That's my poker night hard stop.

5 buy ins if it's a meetup.

This is Sober Craig's stop-loss. Meetup Craig's stop-loss is "When I fall asleep on the bean bag."

 

[Anthony Martino]

Hey, don't give him credit! That was MY advice!

(And several people in the thread before me.)


This is Sober Craig's stop-loss. Meetup Craig's stop-loss is "When I fall asleep on the bean bag."

I mean, I did say I was echoing what others had already stated, I'm a victim of circumstance good sir!

RECREATIONALS ADVICE: You should go for a walk
PLAYER: Fuck that!

PROS ADVICE: You should go for a walk
PLAYER: Finally someone had the courage to say it, spot on!

 

[trigs]

Generally, I usually have a hard stop at 4-5 buy-ins. However, if I feel like I'm just not playing well for whatever reason (tilt, tired, bored, etc.), I'll just leave the game.

EDIT: When I host though, I will always play to the end.