What is the Allure of Leaded Chips?? (2 Viewers)

[ssanel54]

Seems like Leaded Chips are the most recent Belle du Jour, but I am having a hard time understanding the rationale. Why do people feel that Leaded chips are the Best Chips? Typically the answers I hear will also include some reference to THC, Shaped Inlays or Weight, but its usually the Lead formula thats the focal point. There are so many factors that can contribute to a chips weight besides the formula, and there is plenty of weight variance between colors, molds, condition etc, regardless of lead vs no lead. So to the Lead heads- is heavier always better? would you prefer a lighter leaded chip over heavier non-leaded? Is there an imaginary line that can be crossed where chips are too heavy, as they start to approach "official casino weight"?

I saw in another thread this morning a Noob asking for advice on a leaded starter set, but then saying he doesnt care if they are Bike tires.... I have no idea what the appeal of a Leaded set is to him, but can only imagine its because everyone blindly says they are the best....

Granted, I own plenty of leaded chips, and for me the appeal is probably more of a general nostalgia to certain Casinos from an era when paulson chips still contained lead. I bought Dunes chips because I like the design, House mold, Shaped inlays etc, and dont think I knew about the Lead formula until after the fact. If I found out tomorrow that they weren't leaded, it would not change my opinion in the slightest. I have also owned and sold chips like Aztars and Empress, which were sold on St Patricks day for .25 a chip, yet back then no one even mentioned their formula, they were just a cheap paulson option from a real casino.

I am curious to hear other opinions on this. Is "leaded" just a new category to justify higher prices?

 

[doublebooyah85]

Weight, feel, rarity, sound and I think the most important is they seem to offer the most longevity/wear and tear. @Gorbash what says you?

 

[louBdub]

For me, it’s two parts.

The feel, obviously…

And the fact that I can find rare chips from 1967,73,88 and felt them in my cash game.

Nostalgia, feel, not made anymore, etc.

This really isn’t a hard question to answer, I find it obvious.

 

[ssanel54]

Weight, feel, rarity, sound and I think the most important is they seem to offer the most longevity/wear and tear. @Gorbash what says you?

This is my point - Do you like the weight, feel, sound, rarity or do you like the fact that they are leaded. A Dunes House mold is going to feel and sound very different than a Casino Aztar.

 

[upNdown]

It’s not new. People have been chasing lead for as long as I’ve been on this site and I’m sure a lot longer than that.
Personally, I love the textured and shaped inlays which just so happen to have been phased out around the same time as lead.

It’s definitely the weight, the sound, and the feel. But it’s also a lot of mystical bullshit. Because while there are times when I could tell fully leaded chips from fully unleaded chips with my eyes closed, the difference isn’t always so distinct. Apparently there are multiple degrees of leadedness (we’re told the lead was phased out perhaps gradually over like a decade or more.)

Lead is definitely a thing and it’s also definitely not all that. Personally I’d take mint unleaded over bike tire leaded, no doubt. And there are many ways to weigh it, but when the scales come close to even, remember that they’re cranking out unleaded chips every day, but they’re never making leaded chips again.

 

[superchromix]

I find the leaded chips wear differently as compared to the non-leaded chips. Fewer flea bites, longer lasting, different sound/feel.

 

[colter ripton]

They are better

 

[ssanel54]

It’s not new. People have been chasing lead for as long as I’ve been on this site and I’m sure a lot longer than that.
Personally, I love the textured and shaped inlays which just so happen to have been phased out around the same time as lead.

When did you join? I dont ever recall Lead chasing in the early days. People were just chasing Casino Chips. Now granted, back then maybe most of the casino chips that were being chased happened to be leaded. But it seems like there was a switch flipped eventually where Leaded became an emphasis over Casino. This may have coincided with the abundance of CR faux shape sales.

 

[Rieguy]

Pretty much nailed above with weight, feel, smoothness, and how they wear, but the biggest difference outside of hot-stamps are textured inlays. It sounds weird to say, but they feel "one with the chip" vs. newer shiny inlays. Shaped inlays are also a wonderful and unique aesthetic for leaded chips.

 

[BGinGA]

I find the leaded chips wear differently as compared to the non-leaded chips. Fewer flea bites, longer lasting, different sound/feel.

^ This.

They are better

And ^ this, lol

For several reasons. Mostly the softer feel.

 

[Gorbash]

Weight, feel, rarity, sound and I think the most important is they seem to offer the most longevity/wear and tear. @Gorbash what says you?

While sitting at my home office desk I shuffle barrels of chips throughout the day, and that's a lot of chip shuffling. Shuffling leaded chips is completely different than shuffling non-leaded chips. Leaded chips have a much different feel to them, which I believe is weight and composition related, and they make a much a different sound while shuffling, it's this clanging sound from the lead that is music to my ear.

From a collecting chips standpoint, they ain't making no more leaded chips, so I have more confidence that leaded chips will retain their value long-term better than non-leaded chips. It seems like every time new non-leaded chips show up, e.g., Tigers, the FMV of existing non-leaded chips goes down.

 

[upNdown]

But it seems like there was a switch flipped eventually where Leaded became an emphasis over Casino. This may have coincided with the abundance of CR faux shape sales.

That might be it. I joined in 2016. First CR sale was that year - Horseshoe Cleveland. Faux shaped and not very attractive. But I got some of those Golden Eagles from Spinettis within my first year and I was sold on lead. I dunno, maybe I helped start the lead craze - shrug

 

[BGinGA]

I dont ever recall Lead chasing in the early days. People were just chasing Casino Chips.

That's because in the "early" days, casino chips were (mostly) all leaded, at least the Paulson and TRK brands were.

The RHC / GPI / glossy inlay era accelerated the longing for older leaded chips.

 

[upNdown]

And the fact that I can find rare chips from 1967,73,88 and felt them in my cash game.

This is an interesting point to chew on, and while Dave is here, maybe he can contribute @BGinGA
I know that Paulson only used leaded clay from the late 70’s until whenever (late 90s to mid oughts it was reduced until gone?)
Other than that, the only brand I know that was using leaded clay was TRK, though I know nothing of their dates.
What I don’t know, is if any other brands were weighting their clay with lead, during those times. Some of them would stick a lead slug in the middle, but that’s not quite the same thing.
So I would guess that those chips you mention from ‘67 or ‘73 are not leaded clays, unless they’re TRKs. But I don’t know that. More of a guess/question.

 

[ssanel54]

That's because in the "early" days, casino chips were (mostly) all leaded, at least the Paulson and TRK brands were.

The RHC / GPI / glossy inlay era accelerated the longing for older leaded chips.

Right, but casino chips were still far superior to any of the leaded Paulson home chips

 

[ssanel54]

This is an interesting point to chew on, and while Dave is here, maybe he can contribute @BGinGA
I know that Paulson only used leaded clay from the late 70’s until whenever (late 90s to mid oughts it was reduced until gone?)
Other than that, the only brand I know that was using leaded clay was TRK, though I know nothing of their dates.
What I don’t know, is if any other brands were weighting their clay with lead, during those times. Some of them would stick a lead slug in the middle, but that’s not quite the same thing.
So I would guess that those chips you mention from ‘67 or ‘73 are not leaded clays, unless they’re TRKs. But I don’t know that. More of a guess/question.

The Lakeshore chips were the example that jumps out at me where everyone was fawning over them and buying/selling as if they were leaded. Everyone just assumed they were, until it was pointed out that they weren’t. I’m not sure if opinions changed after people were more informed.

 

[sheikh617]

For me, I just like the weight and that usually leaded chips mean old school casinos which have a special kind of allure. It's probably a major reason why I love all 43mm sets. The chips just have excellent feel and stack like bricks. Ultimately, I don't lead chase in the sense that they are the only chips I will play with. I'm not that snobby, I have Ceramics, Card Molds, RHCs, THCs, IHCs, FHCs, and the whole nine yards in my sets. They all serve their purpose that they allow us to gambol and have a good time. Having nice chips in play for people that appreciate them is a great feeling. Otherwise my regs don't give a shit and I rather not waste the good stuff on them peasants anyways.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

If you like to shuffle chips, leaded textured THC are just unbeatable. A barrel of Condado Beach $100s is my personal guilty pleasure at 11.7g each. The sound, the weight, the feel. If you don’t care much for handling chips then sure this may not matter to you.

Leaded THC are like naturally aspirated V8/10/12 engines. The urgency of the power and the sound cannot be replicated by engines that may be faster, more efficient, and have better torque at low rpms. Obviously if someone doesn’t care about sound buy a turbo V4 or an electric.

 

[BGinGA]

Right, but casino chips were still far superior to any of the leaded Paulson home chips

How can they be absolutely identical in construction and yet be "far superior"?

You speaketh with forked tongue.

 

[Rakrul]

Funny thing was on CT when people heard that Paulson was changing formula, people got New Coke-scared. Then either the point that there was lead in the old formula or someone found something indicating the lead levels in some of the chips (I can't remember which, as I was immortal at the time) caused quite a stir with some people (especially with kids). All of a sudden, people were dumping leaded sets left and right and/or trading with new, non-leaded sets.

 

[72o]

How can they be absolutely identical in construction and yet be "far superior"?

You speaketh with forked tongue.

Not to speak for @ssanel54 but I took that as casino sets were simply held in a higher regard than fantasy sets. I could be wrong about that but it does seem that the old leaded fantasy sets are gaining more and more traction these days.

 

[PocketAces]

The Lakeshore chips were the example that jumps out at me where everyone was fawning over them and buying/selling as if they were leaded. Everyone just assumed they were, until it was pointed out that they weren’t. I’m not sure if opinions changed after people were more informed.

I weighted them (see here)

A barrel of $1 is significantly lighter than the other denoms but a barrel of $5 is 15g heavier than the RPC T5k (which I think is its best comp). $20 are close to 10g/chip.

But hey if they’re not leaded great, I’m looking for 3 racks of $5 and I will pay the price as if they were leaded I promise

More importantly than lead, shaped inlays is one thing that I wish Paulson was still offering. Doesn’t even have to be textured (the ‘new’ Lake Elsinore $100 or IBP $100 are great as they are)…

 

[kmccormick100]

Leaded chips do absolutely feel and sound different, the best possible handling chips are slightly worn leaded inlaid chips in my mind. And if you had me shuffle 5 stacks of leaded vs unleaded chips blindfolded, I bet I’d be able to tell you which was which.

Shaped inlays are an aesthetic preference, I think it makes them feel more like authentic casino chips. Textured inlays do, in fact, have an effect on the way a chip shuffles and sounds I’ve found.

They absolutely do wear and break in differently than newer Paulson formulas, the clay (plastic polymers, whatever) was both denser and softer than new formulas and less prone to flea bites and also “polished” or broke in differently.

That said, the majority of my sets are unleaded do to availability, customization and bright colors, but there will always be one large leaded cash set in my rotation because it’s as good as chips get in my opinion.

For some reason white is also an outlier color in my experience, it sounds and feels different than most other colors. Leaded white “polishes” up and sounds different for some reason, and unleaded white feels more porous and chalky.

 

[kmccormick100]

I weighted them (see here)

A barrel of $1 is significantly lighter than the other denoms but a barrel of $5 is 15g heavier than the RPC T5k (which I think is its best comp). $20 are close to 10g/chip.

But hey if they’re not leaded great, I’m looking for 3 racks of $5 and I will pay the price as if they were leaded I promise

Also shaped inlays is one thing that I wish Paulson was still offering. Doesn’t have to be textured (the ‘new’ Lake Elsinore $100 or IBP $100 are great as they are)

With the lightest chips being 9.35g, those are definitely still leaded. Hell, the Aztar $25s are like 8.8g, but leaded and the snappers are over 11g iirc. There’s a lot of variation in weight based on colors, generally the more dayglo a color is the lighter, in my experience. Often reds are lighter too, with pink, grays, blacks being the heaviest for the most part.

 

[ssanel54]

How can they be absolutely identical in construction and yet be "far superior"?

You speaketh with forked tongue.

Because that’s what the community valued at the time, and what justified the highest prices in the classifieds.

 

[ssanel54]

Leaded chips do absolutely feel and sound different, the best possible handling chips are slightly worn leaded inlaid chips in my mind. And if you had me shuffle 5 stacks of leaded vs unleaded chips blindfolded, I bet I’d be able to tell you which was which.

Shaped inlays are an aesthetic preference, I think it makes them feel more like authentic casino chips. Textured inlays do, in fact, have an effect on the way a chip shuffles and sounds I’ve found.

They absolutely do wear and break in differently than newer Paulson formulas, the clay (plastic polymers, whatever) was both denser and softer than new formulas and less prone to flea bites and also “polished” or broke in differently.

That said, the majority of my sets are unleaded do to availability, customization and bright colors, but there will always be one large leaded cash set in my rotation because it’s as good as chips get in my opinion.

For some reason white is also an outlier color in my experience, it sounds and feels different than most other colors. Leaded white “polishes” up and sounds different for some reason, and unleaded white feels more porous and chalky.

I would love to conduct that experiment. I think it’s easy to look at leaded chips and say, yes that’s what I like, but would be much harder to do blindfolded. Especially, if you weren’t familiar with the chips that were put in front of you. Could you tell the difference between white leaded Paulson vs green leaded Paulson based off the weight difference?

 

[BGinGA]

Because that’s what the community valued at the time, and what justified the highest prices in the classifieds.

Agreed, but highly-valued and higher-priced do not equate to "far superior". Casino history and scarcity may influence their desireability, but not their superiority.

 

[BGinGA]

if you had me shuffle 5 stacks of leaded vs unleaded chips blindfolded, I bet I’d be able to tell you which was which.

I'd bet that you could, too.

I would love to conduct that experiment. I think it’s easy to look at leaded chips and say, yes that’s what I like, but would be much harder to do blindfolded.

I've actually done this several times, both as a tester (providing multiple stack types to be compared blind by others) and as a testee (comparing various stack types blind-folded).

I've found that experienced chippers do remarkably well in these type of comparison tests.

 

[Tonysquander]

Leaded, schmeaded…go get yourself some real chips made with mercury

 

[upNdown]

Could you tell the difference between white leaded Paulson vs green leaded Paulson based off the weight difference?

Nobody can feel the difference between colors. But yeah, if you give me a stack of ten 10 grams chips and another stack of otherwise identical ten 9 grams chips, yes, experienced chippers can tell the difference.