What's inside my chip? (2 Viewers)

[BGinGA]

I really like the 818 Aztar $25's (I have several hundred, paired with my gray Casa $100's in a mixed casino tourney set). But I have some other very unique and mint 818 THC chips that would really top this set off. Email me @gmail if interested.

(I'd be using the 200x red bricks as relabeled T500 or T5000's..... maybe a trade?)

 

[thorwilliam]

That is going to be a sweet set!

Viewers please note, the sample labels are deliberately cut to a small diameter (7/8") to make sure they will fit on the face of basically any chip that can take a label. (The point of the samples is to demonstrate thickness and feel, not diameter.)

Do these labels work on Paulson RHC chips or would I need unlaminated labels?

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Just a thought...isn't that little piece of foil on those chips specifically for the table game bonus lights? I'm pretty sure they use a detector under the red plastic in order to get the LED to light up. From time to time the dealer will have to flip the chip over or move it around for the light to come on. I'm fairly confident the $1's will have these too.
99% sure that definitely isn't a typical GPI RFID transmitter. See below:

http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/anatomy-of-an-rfid-chip.4243/

 

[bentax1978]

Just a thought...isn't that little piece of foil on those chips specifically for the table game bonus lights? I'm pretty sure they use a detector under the red plastic in order to get the LED to light up. From time to time the dealer will have to flip the chip over or move it around for the light to come on. I'm fairly confident the $1's will have these too.

Sounds plausible. That said, I've had several other broken chips that I've looked at and I've never seen this before. Granted a lot of those were poker room chips where there would be no reason to have such a feature.

99% sure that definitely isn't a typical GPI RFID transmitter.

After peeling off the foil (post 22), I agree, it's almost certainly not an RFID transmitter.

 

[bentax1978]

I used a Raynox DCR-250 Super Macro Snap-On Lens on regular telephoto for images like the one below. I don't even own a tripod though so this was handheld, 1/60 s (with shake reduction). Probably would be considerably clearer if I held the camera steady while focusing and taking the picture, but pretty good for a handheld shot I think. Super cheap, $75 for the Raynox and I have been very happy with it.

Good point. I've used both the Raynox 150 and 250, and they both work pretty well (and are a pretty convenient/inexpensive solution to get high magnification).

 

[MeridianFC]

You're going to label over the Casablancas? Oh the humanity!

 

[bentax1978]

You're going to label over the Casablancas? Oh the humanity!

Only because I was (wisely) talked out of doing a full inlay replacement

 

[sleepypiggly]

So I saw this pic from eBay today, and I'm reminded of how some BCC chips have that smaller circular indent in the middle of the chip as well. I assume that's just glue or whatever they use to hold the inlay in place when they press the chip... right? Or is there some kind of foil in it as well?

 

[bentax1978]

So I saw this pic from eBay today, and I'm reminded of how some BCC chips have that smaller circular indent in the middle of the chip as well. I assume that's just glue or whatever they use to hold the inlay in place when they press the chip... right? Or is there some kind of foil in it as well?

Looks to be about the right size to be a similar foil disc.

 

[bentax1978]

Looks like there's some brass(?) flakes in the red brick $100 chips. Makes sense since they weight about 9% more than the gray ones (11.2g vs 10.3g).

100% crop

 

[bentax1978]

One more gratuitous macro shot as long as I had the lens out.

100% crop

 

[Gear]

Do these labels work on Paulson RHC chips or would I need unlaminated labels?

Unlaminated would work better on RHC (and they do work quite well.)

I guess we shouldn't hijack this thread any more than I have already... please feel free to send me a PM or an email (info at gear labels dot com.)

 

[Mental Nomad]

One more gratuitous macro shot as long as I had the lens out.

Now we need before-and-after-oiling shots with the macro lens...

 

[Mental Nomad]

Theory on the one-side disc: maybe it's used to stick the inlay in place for the bottom half of the chip, so it doesn't rotate or shift as the chip is put into the die? Then the top inlay piece could be place on top and visually verified before the chips are pressed.

Another theory: maybe it's a leftover from the inlay production process, and it accidentally came along for the ride.

UPDATE: Nah, I think it's too thick for that. Maybe it's meant to set off some other sort of detector. Not RFID, just to set off something more similar to the detectors at the exits of retail stores. Could be intended to prevent employees from leaving the cage with them?

 

[bentax1978]

Now we need before-and-after-oiling shots with the macro lens...

I'll take some tonight.

Theory on the one-side disc: maybe it's used to stick the inlay in place for the bottom half of the chip, so it doesn't rotate or shift as the chip is put into the die? Then the top inlay piece could be place on top and visually verified before the chips are pressed.

Another theory: maybe it's a leftover from the inlay production process, and it accidentally came along for the ride.

There was no apparent adhesion (or residual adhesive) between the foil and the inlay itself, so I don't think it was there to keep the inlay from shifting. Not sure about an accidental deposit theory, though the shape and placement makes me lean towards intentional.

@Quicksilver-75's theory in post 33 seems like the most likely answer so far; I haven't been able to come up with anything more plausible.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I'll take some tonight.




There was no apparent adhesion (or residual adhesive) between the foil and the inlay itself, so I don't think it was there to keep the inlay from shifting. Not sure about an accidental deposit theory, though the shape and placement makes me lean towards intentional.

@Quicksilver-75's theory in post 33 seems like the most likely answer so far; I haven't been able to come up with anything more plausible.

Sooooooo.....i win the sample you were offering up???

 

[sleepypiggly]

Ok, I asked an industry guy about this.

He said that the foil is a lead weight. It is present in all (or most) Christy Jones chips.

Send the foil to a lab and it will probably be lead. If you lick it it will probably taste like Mexican candy.

Boom, there you go. Mystery solved.

 

[Psypher1000]

If you lick it it will probably taste like Mexican candy.

I'm going to put that in the "Quotes to be used out of context at a later date" category.

 

[bentax1978]

Ok, I asked an industry guy about this.

He said that the foil is a lead weight. It is present in all (or most) Christy Jones chips.

Send the foil to a lab and it will probably be lead. If you lick it it will probably taste like Mexican candy.

Boom, there you go. Mystery solved.

I don't think I saved the foil (it came off in multiple pieces as it was very thin), which is unfortunate because I will actually have access to an EDX on Monday and could confirm whether or not it's lead.

I have to admit, even if it is lead, I have some doubts about it being there solely as a weight. Assuming it's lead (I didn't lick it at the time) , I calculated a rough estimate of the weight of the foil circle at 0.08 grams (based on the size and approx thickness of the foil). Seems odd that one would add a piece of lead foil to a chip just to increase its weight by less than 1%.

 

[Parrothedd]

Yep, that's a microdot. Much more common on $100 chips than RFID, mostly because it's a lot less expensive. Having both would indicate a pretty paranoid casino management team..... which sorta falls right into line with having a shit-ton of different chips for each of several denominations.

I believe the primary use of an RFID chip is electronic chip counting, rather than anti-counterfeiting. Security can monitor the total chip count on a table easily - mainly to watch for cheating dealers.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I would be surprised if it was a weight. And it didn't look like lead. Too shiny.

 

[bentax1978]

I would be surprised if it was a weight. And it didn't look like lead. Too shiny.

At this point I am fairly certain it wasn't there as a weight as the volume of the object suggests that even if it was lead (which I don't believe it was), it would have only increased the chip's weight by less than 1%.

 

[sleepypiggly]

I wonder if there were any requirements for “official casino weight” back in the days. You’re probably right that given its size, it may not have added too much weight. But I’m thinking that maybe certain base colors in the “formula” would yield chips with lower weights, and that to make all the colors consistent in weight, they add various sized lead slugs to some? Just a conjecture.

But we will never know, will we? Unless… unless you peel back another chip… in the name of science?

Because…

 

[bentax1978]

I wonder if there were any requirements for “official casino weight” back in the days. You’re probably right that given its size, it may not have added too much weight. But I’m thinking that maybe certain base colors in the “formula” would yield chips with lower weights, and that to make all the colors consistent in weight, they add various sized lead slugs to some? Just a conjecture.

But we will never know, will we? Unless… unless you peel back another chip… in the name of science?

Even without the inlay and foil, this chip is the heaviest Paulson I own, pushing north of 11 grams. There's brass flakes (or something similar) in the clay. The only other chips I owned that I recall there being flakes in were my Bahamia chips ($25 and $100), and even those weren't this heavy. It just doesn't seem like it was there for weight. For what it's worth, peeling it off, it felt like the foil that seals the top of a medicine bottle. Like a thin (aluminum) foil.

Right now my OCD is conflicting with my curiosity as I have exactly even barrels and hate to be one chip shy just for the sake of "science".

 

[sleepypiggly]

If you have a good sensitive scale that goes out to a couple of decimals, can you take an average weight of the good chips vs. all the pieces of this broken chip, assuming you still have that outer label you peeled out? So it would be everything ex. that foil?

 

[bentax1978]

If you have a good sensitive scale that goes out to a couple of decimals, can you take an average weight of the good chips vs. all the pieces of this broken chip, assuming you still have that outer label you peeled out? So it would be everything ex. that foil?

I would have access to a scale capable of that level of precision on Monday. However, off the top of my head there would be at least two potential issues.

1) First you'd have to measure a few dozen intact chips to see what distribution weights of intact chips was. It's quite possible that the variation in chips is the same or larger than the weight of the foil. I suspect this is the case, which would make it impossible to back out the foil weight.

2) Although I have the pieces and the inlays, the paper/adhesive portion was scrapped off under running water and is down the sink. I don't believe that was a significant amount of weight, but then again, neither is the weight of the foil we are trying to back out.

3) If I spent an hour doing this Monday, it would be in lieu of live playing poker, which is the actual reason I'll be traveling Saturday through Monday. Chances are in that hour I will make enough to buy a couple more barrels of these chips, which would make a direct measurement much easier

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Anything is possible. The guy in charge of ordering the chips for the casino probably insisted on "official casino weight" at 11.5g. He probably read it on the Internet.

 

[sleepypiggly]

Another theory – the foil is a marker to show that this chip contains lead weighting (mixed in the formula). The leaded chips are indeed 11 grams, while non-lead chips are about 9.5grams, according to the INTERNET.

“Even the original compression molding technique from 50 years ago has remained largely unchanged although all Paul-Son chips are now manufactured at a hi-tec plant in Mexico producing over 30,000 chips a day. The lead weighting had to be abandoned for safety reasons many years ago, resulting in a drop in weight from 11 to 9.5 grams, but the classic finish, feel and sound remains.”

 

[bentax1978]

Another theory – the foil is a marker to show that this chip contains lead weighting (mixed in the formula). The leaded chips are indeed 11 grams, while non-lead chips are about 9.5grams, according to the INTERNET.

“Even the original compression molding technique from 50 years ago has remained largely unchanged although all Paul-Son chips are now manufactured at a hi-tec plant in Mexico producing over 30,000 chips a day. The lead weighting had to be abandoned for safety reasons many years ago, resulting in a drop in weight from 11 to 9.5 grams, but the classic finish, feel and sound remains.”

I think the brass flakes were added to this chip to get the weight up, instead of lead. Pretty sure this chip was made way after they stopped using lead in their chips.

Going back a few posts, I should have just licked it

 

[BGinGA]

The chips are definitely NOT Christy & Jones. Casablanca opened in 1993, well into the post-C&J Paulson era but also well before Paulson/GPI started phasing out lead from the chip formula. Most metallic flakes were added to higher-denomination Paulson chips for security reasons, not weight. And most are aluminum flakes, not brass.....

And these probably aren't brass, either. Brass tarnishes rather easily, and would not appear as a gold color on an exposed edge.