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WSOP tournament hand (1 Viewer)

Frogzilla said:
Only flushes you beat are :8h::4h: that villain probably never plays, and :4h::3h: or :3h::2h: which a frisky HJ might open, but these hands both call your bet and jam into you, so doesn’t matter what you do, you’ll probably get the money. You have to choose whether the value you gain betting into villains straights and sets (which is gained if they call your bet, but would have checked back) offsets the value you lose from catching bluffs if you give villain some rope
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Agree with the thoughts. Would you lead or check here given that?
 
Admittedly late the party and I don't really like the turn lead for the reason that just happened. You really can't get kx to fold in this spot, and getting random Ax to fold (and the hh combos won't fold) doesn't buy you a lot in a pot that's still rather small. You are either bluff catching with a 9 which mean you are fine keeping the pot small, or you are hoping to improve by the river and then play a big pot.

But as played, I think you have to bet the river, it's just a question of sizing. Villain has about 10k left in a pot that has 15K in it now. The key question to me is whether villain can pay off a shove with KQ? If villain can fold KQ to a shove, then the shove has no upside to me as it's really tough to put villain on a lesser flush or a straight. But having just improved to "kings up" if villain has KQ, it's a tough laydown. But if I think villain is good enough to fold it, my plan B would be to size 3K-4K to see if you can keep KQ, as well as AK and maybe TT-QQ in his calling range.
 
I don't lead the turn a lot, probably check raise the turn for me personally, but it's something I know good players have in their game.
I do think I prefer a Jam on the turn after being raised, where 2nd pair is definitely losing vs. any of their value hands and pair + flush draws is one of our premium bluffs to balance our sets, straights and top 2, but as played we check/call river because Villain only calls with better flushes if we jam here. 9h7h is actually excellent as a bluff because we have removal to the nuts as well.
 
The turn raise by V smells of a made hand, maybe a 2 pair, or a set, even TPGK so I think H is good - and we’re all about sizing the river bet. The overbet shove might look like a bluff that can get called? Maybe I’m just greedy.

Edit - the effective is not even an overbet is it? V is committed at this point. Shove.
 
Hero (in real time) thinks there are more hands in the "getting called by better" category than worse hands that will call, so decides to keep bluffs and value owns in play and checks. More below.

Context : 1k buy-in NLHE freeze out, 2400 runners at level 5 with late reg open for a few more levels. Starting stacks 20k. Structured with BB ante - at level 5 we are playing 300/500/500, so pressure is already on those that haven't been chipping up. Money bubble is way way far away.

Relevant players:
HJ : 18k - has played many WSOP events - not a pro, but seems like a very solid rec player. Hasn't gotten out of line visibly in two hours.
BB (Hero) : 57k - has only shown down a couple of monsters (straights or high pocket pairs) and has been folding alot.

Folds to HJ
HJ opens to 1200
Folds to Hero, who looks down at :9h::7h:
Pot is 2500

Hero CALLS.

Pot is 3200

Flop comes :ks::9d::6h:

Hero CHECKS
Villain leads for 1000
Hero CALLS 1000

Pot is 5200.

(Just realized I effed up the suits. Correcting the earlier post as well)

Turn brings :ks::9d::6h::5h:

Hero BETS 1800
Villain pauses for a few seconds and puts in a raise to 5000.
Hero CALLS.

Pot is 15200

River brings a beautiful? card :ks::9d::6h::5h::qh:

Hero CHECKS.
Villain thinks for about 15 seconds and bets 6500
Action on hero.
 
I call and cry when Villain shows the nut or second nut flush.

He raised me with Ace 8 honey! And I have a pair (and a flush draw)! And these guys have been raising me and reraising me, and finally I have a pair... (etc.)

I think the value hands we beat here are mostly 87s and sets. Which there are enough for us to call.
 
You've played this pretty passively. You don't have to right that often to call here. I would call expecting to be good most of the time.
 
Folding is out of question, raising is close but I think 97hh just a bit too light. I would probably raise my :th: flush honestly but not the :9h: Very close spot
 
MrCatPants said:
Hero (in real time) thinks there are more hands in the "getting called by better" category than worse hands that will call, so decides to keep bluffs and value owns in play and checks. More below.
Click to expand...
I didn't consider this line, in part because the initial read is that villian doesn't really get "out of line" so I would have assumed villain for a lot of check-backs here. It really seems to me KQ, KK, QQ are what he has here for value that might be able to call a shove, that might be enough to justify a shove. Otherwise there are a lot of better flushes here too.

I think I like flatting the river knowing you will usually win.
 
JustinInMN said:
I didn't consider this line, in part because the initial read is that villian doesn't really get "out of line" so I would have assumed villain for a lot of check-backs here. It really seems to me KQ, KK, QQ are what he has here for value that might be able to call a shove, that might be enough to justify a shove. Otherwise there are a lot of better flushes here too.

I think I like flatting the river knowing you will usually win.
Click to expand...
I hadn't seen him 'visibly' get out of line. Not a lot of showdowns in tournament play, and didn't seem to have a VPIP north of 20%.
 
And with a vpip this low, it's really hard for me to give him credit for 87 or lesser hearts than 97. If villain is going to pay off a shove, you are really hoping you cracked a set or KQ here.
 
Alright, lets bring it home. I call - again thinking that, especially after a bet, nothing that I beat is likely to call me, and won't get a better hand to fold.

Context : 1k buy-in NLHE freeze out, 2400 runners at level 5 with late reg open for a few more levels. Starting stacks 20k. Structured with BB ante - at level 5 we are playing 300/500/500, so pressure is already on those that haven't been chipping up. Money bubble is way way far away.

Relevant players:
HJ : 18k - has played many WSOP events - not a pro, but seems like a very solid rec player. Hasn't gotten out of line visibly in two hours.
BB (Hero) : 57k - has only shown down a couple of monsters (straights or high pocket pairs) and has been folding alot.

Folds to HJ
HJ opens to 1200
Folds to Hero, who looks down at :9h::7h:
Pot is 2500

Hero CALLS.

Pot is 3200

Flop comes :ks::9d::6h:

Hero CHECKS
Villain leads for 1000
Hero CALLS 1000

Pot is 5200.

(Just realized I effed up the suits. Correcting the earlier post as well)

Turn brings :ks::9d::6h::5h:

Hero BETS 1800
Villain pauses for a few seconds and puts in a raise to 5000.
Hero CALLS.

Pot is 15200

River brings a beautiful? card :ks::9d::6h::5h::qh:

Hero CHECKS.
Villain thinks for about 15 seconds and bets 6500
Hero CALLS.

Villian tables :kh::kd:
I turn over my flush
A large sucking sound plays over the loudspeaker as I drag a nice pot to put me in a really strong position early in the tourney

After the next hand, villain looks my way and asks "How do you not shove that back door flush?" and I just looked at him and shrugged.

If the king of hearts was on the board, I would have seen this hand playing out much differently - wouldn't be any likely monsters under the bed.
 
This doesn't feel like a story that ends well, but I'm 100% calling here. And it feels like a win, even if we lose. Because we could have jammed and lost more. Will I feel bad if I only flat, I'm way ahead, and he's still got 4K in his stack? No, I'm not a piggy. But like I said before, this was really what I was hoping for - it seems very likely that we're ahead and very likely that he wouldn't have called a big river bet from us, so we let him own himself.
And if its a cooler, I'm not sure how I could have played differently and lost less.
 
Nice hand, and really I like the way it was played except for the donk on the turn. Yes, you picked up equity, but you are out of position against a tight player that is usually going to fit this board pretty well except for Ax that's not hearts and not AK. So betting here maximizes what you pay to realize your equity here while only denying hero's small equity in a small part of his range. I just didn't like that tradeoff.

In the alternate universe where you check call the turn after picking up the SFD, I might consider a good healthy lead into this river, his range is a lot more wide having just bet the turn instead of having raised the turn, and there's a lot you can still get paid because of it.

Unfortunately when you play out of position, check-call is very often the right answer.
 
I don’t really play tournaments but fwiw I don’t like the turn lead at all. You have a huge draw sure, but your pair of nines alone is gonna be the best hand a lot. He’s not gonna fold better and not call many worse. But he could put you in a bad spot with a big raise/shove.

I would check/call
 
Very interesting spot, thanks for posting!

In agreement with everyone here, and not trying to be results oriented but turn seems to really be just a check-call. River lead is kind of cool but check-call or check-shove are both fine. I was thinking when V raises the turn here, he is heavily weighted towards sets (discounting combo draws a bit given our holdings which block lots of them). Just to also note again, that when you say you are leading turn to "fold out Ax..." that just isn't something you need to do here. Those hands will likely brick so just allow them to keep bluffing into you here imo.

River check-call vs lead shove is interesting. I think I lean towards playing in flow and staying with the check on the river. I think that when villain bets here, we are really just looking at losing to a few combos and we can't be scared of those so I do think a check-shove is appropriate at that time. We will be on fumes either way.
 
Senzrock said:
Just to also note again, that when you say you are leading turn to "fold out Ax..." that just isn't something you need to do here. Those hands will likely brick so just allow them to keep bluffing into you here imo.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree, wish I put it in those terms. Folding out that sliver of villain's range isn't worth escalating the price to draw which has potentially monster implied odds if we hit.
 
2nd rebuy No Booyah

image.jpg
 
I’m just reading this for the first time now also. My thought exercise is could the Villain have played it any other way?
 
MeridianFC said:
I’m just reading this for the first time now also. My thought exercise is could the Villain have played it any other way?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. There's a few other hands that could have played this way, but KQ and AK are the only ones I would have beaten.

Here's the other hands I posted in this series for those of you late to the party:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/another-wsop-tournament-hand.90973/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/yet-another-wsop-tournament-hand.91079/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/one-last-wsop-tournament-hand.91119/
 
MeridianFC said:
I’m just reading this for the first time now also. My thought exercise is could the Villain have played it any other way?
Click to expand...
Villain maybe should have gone for a bigger sizing on the turn, and maybe even shove. When it got back to hero it was only 3200 to call in a pot that had 12,000. If Villain shoves there it's 14000 to call a pot that has 15,800 in it or so. Really puts max pressure on any heart hands here.

But again, that's a much higher variance route, there are good reasons to play small as villain chose as well.

Edit to add: Bottom line, I see one alternative, but it probbaly leads to villain getting broke unless hero is laying down the pair and SFD.
 
Last edited:

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