Advice Requested: New NIT On The Block (3 Viewers)

Taxi500

Taxi500

3 of a Kind
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Fellow hosts/players,

Been running a successful home game for a while. The action is great and it's a good combination of young aggressive/semi-aggressive types with 1-2 more passive 'safe' players in there too.

We've recently invited some new players all in line with this "Vibe"... except for one. Energy drink type & the NIT-iest 25 year old I've met. Tight tight tight. He had a huge win yesterday (1.5k+ on our 1/2 table) and what really set me off was this: At the end of the game, tripple straddle is on and its $8 more for him to play. He has 1.8k+ in front of him and FOLDS the last hand with everyone cheering and laughing because it's $8. The table semi-exploded with "what the fuck are you doing dude" type comments because it felt just so lame in a family-pot to fold when you're the night's big winner.

I've fielded a few complaints from other players but this guy is very very nice and respectful. I have nothing personally against him besides how tight he makes the table when he opens/3B.

How do I handle a player/situation like this?
 
Tough question, but it all depends on what your atmosphere and game are like. That's a significant win. If he's a good friend and all that, pull him aside and explain how that looks. Explain that this isn't a casino, this is a private game where people come to play for fun and its a privilege and you gotta keep people happy.

Depending on the friend, you can frame it two ways:

1. The competitor: frame it as you can only kill a sheep once and shear it many times, straddling and giving back when you're the huge obvious winner is +EV in the long run, you want them to continue to enjoy and gamble with you so you can keep winning. Kind of a meta conversation.
2. The nit who just missed social cues: you looked like a dick leaving like that, definitely earned the win and hey you played great! But when everyone being goofy and gambling got you the stack, you should try to end on a good note. Just a social conversation.

Some people have no idea how this is perceived, I'd definitely talk to him. Not an outright ban but just a heads up that his actions might affect the game. If he just replies with "No, respectfully fuck those guys I earned this money", tell him to take the attitude to a casino, but they usually respond very well.
 
At the end of the day, it's his money. He's not obligated to straddle or come along for a family pot if he doesn't want to join.

If the guy was ratholing, hitting-and-running, that's the point where I start to reconsider his invitation. Any other point, he's playing poker. Frankly, that's a shrug to the guys complaining. They've gotta adjust their style to play against this guy, not railroad him.
 
NotRealNameNoSir said:
Tough question, but it all depends on what your atmosphere and game are like. That's a significant win. If he's a good friend and all that, pull him aside and explain how that looks. Explain that this isn't a casino, this is a private game where people come to play for fun and its a privilege and you gotta keep people happy.

Depending on the friend, you can frame it two ways:

1. The competitor: frame it as you can only kill a sheep once and shear it many times, straddling and giving back when you're the huge obvious winner is +EV in the long run, you want them to continue to enjoy and gamble with you so you can keep winning. Kind of a meta conversation.
2. The nit who just missed social cues: you looked like a dick leaving like that, definitely earned the win and hey you played great! But when everyone being goofy and gambling got you the stack, you should try to end on a good note. Just a social conversation.

Some people have no idea how this is perceived, I'd definitely talk to him. Not an outright ban but just a heads up that his actions might affect the game. If he just replies with "No, respectfully fuck those guys I earned this money", tell him to take the attitude to a casino, but they usually respond very well.
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I like this a lot. I don't want to ban him frankly I like when really opposite players are at the table because I'm here to learn how to play the game better. The social thing really rubbed everyone the wrong way.

thetikiking said:
At the end of the day, it's his money. He's not obligated to straddle or come along for a family pot if he doesn't want to join.

If the guy was ratholing, hitting-and-running, that's the point where I start to reconsider his invitation. Any other point, he's playing poker. Frankly, that's a shrug to the guys complaining. They've gotta adjust their style to play against this guy, not railroad him.
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Agree as well. Some of these guys do complain about losing when it's also them playing bad poker vs a NIT.
 
From a host perspective, I don't really see anything wrong with his actions. If he he is NIT , he is a NIT, take his blind and avoid his opens.

I guess it depends on what kind of game you are trying to put together I suppose. Getting the "perfect" line of player is impossible.

How well do you know him? have you played with him in the past. Does he play 1/2 regularly? For a 25 year old this might have been the biggest game he has played. Hell, I only played 1/3 once. If you invited me to a 1/3 game , I'll probably nit it up.

If you feel that his tightness changes the vibe of the table, maybe move him to the bottom of the invite list. Don't let one bad player break out a good home game.

Been in similar situation at home games before where I was the big winner of the night. I been putting on the straddles and 2x/3x straddle at times to give action back. Still folded 72 os middle position when the straddle got up to $8 from 25c/50c blinds.

I would ask the other players individually how they felt about this player.

From the host perspective, I had a good player limp raise AKos in a 5c/10c game the other night and I saw it happen and since then they been on the bottom of my invite list. Nothing against his person or play. Just not the kind of action I expect at a 5c/10c game where most of the table is gamble happy.
 
Do you normally have more players than you can accomodate? If it's hard to get a spot at your table, it shouldn't be hard to make him understand that it's +EV long term to pay the $8 to call the straddle (or to straddle yourself sometimes) to keep the table happy and continue getting invites to play.
If you have a hard time filling the table it's a much harder argument to make as moving him down the invite list isn't a realistic option.
 
@Mandos idk about talking to him about calling the straddle, but definitely about putting on the straddle once a while when you are winning big.

Edit: Expanding on this, I think it's easier for any player to understand that they have to give action to get action in the long run. It's a lot more difficult to convince someone to adapt their gameplay and "calling" with a terrible hand and "burning" money on fire.
 
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Is he a good friend of yours or really close with anybody else in the game? If not he doesn't get an invite back, easy. I host home games to gamble and have fun with friends and like minded players - if he's neither, he's not contributing anything to the game - bye bye.
 
Mandos said:
Do you normally have more players than you can accomodate? If it's hard to get a spot at your table, it shouldn't be hard to make him understand that it's +EV long term to pay the $8 to call the straddle (or to straddle yourself sometimes) to keep the table happy and continue getting invites to play.
If you have a hard time filling the table it's a much harder argument to make as moving him down the invite list isn't a realistic option.
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I sort-of need him now but not really. I also don't want to boot him yet it hasn't gotten to that point. I think I'll just have a chat with him.
Tonystark137 said:
@Mandos idk about talking to him about calling the straddle, but definitely about putting on the straddle once a while when you are winning big.

Edit: Expanding on this, I think it's easier for any player to understand that they have to give action to get action in the long run. It's a lot more difficult to convince someone to adapt their gameplay and "calling" with a terrible hand and "burning" money on fire.
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Yeah he was not giving any action the whole game even with 1.5k+ in front of him at a 1/2 table. Then, the $8 thing just pissed everyone off. He hadn't been straddling, talking, or playing much at all after his big win. So to do that on the last hand in a pot where even the losing players are throwing $16 calls into the middle AND he only has $8 more to call... just a bad look for him.
kmccormick100 said:
Is he a good friend of yours or really close with anybody else in the game? If not he doesn't get an invite back, easy. I host home games to gamble and have fun with friends and like minded players - if he's neither, he's not contributing anything to the game - bye bye.
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Not a good friend barely know him. He's one of a few new guys that joined from another game and they're all nice and cool.
 
allforcharity said:
If he's playing by the rules, then he doesn't deserve any penalty for doing so, no matter what the "culture" of the game is. But the host has full discretion about who is invited and when, so that's the bottom line.
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He's not the only NIT at our game but he's the first to piss people off with his lack of social engagement. I think that's a better way to phrase everything I said. I've realized through the advice here that I should tell him about being careful of these things because if push came to shove I need to keep my regular gamblers at the table happy vs a NIT that isn't even a personal friend of mine.
 
Taxi500 said:
He's not the only NIT at our game but he's the first to piss people off with his lack of social engagement. I think that's a better way to phrase everything I said. I've realized through the advice here that I should tell him about being careful of these things because if push came to shove I need to keep my regular gamblers at the table happy vs a NIT that isn't even a personal friend of mine.
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It's your game. Nobody has claim to a "right" to be there. You should just try to be as fair as you can. If someone's behavior sticks out and starts making people angry, either everybody has to calm the fuck down or you start cutting people from the invite list.

And since it's never said enough, Always Be Recruiting.
 
Taxi500 said:
He's not the only NIT at our game but he's the first to piss people off with his lack of social engagement. I think that's a better way to phrase everything I said. I've realized through the advice here that I should tell him about being careful of these things because if push came to shove I need to keep my regular gamblers at the table happy vs a NIT that isn't even a personal friend of mine.
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Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Obviously, he's not doing anything against the rules, but a hit and run isn't against the rules either in most places and that will get you disinvited quick. If you don't think he's aware that not giving action after being up big is bad for the game then talking to him is probably a good idea. If you think he already knows that and nits are just gonna nit I would just move him to the end of the invite list and only invite him if you need to fill a seat.
 
Introduce mandatory bomb pots. Double board / PLO. A round of plo / straddle. Mandatory or winner straddle / kill.

Or don’t invite the nit back. Majority wins … and if no one enjoys this type of player then don’t invite him.
 
Taxi500 said:
So to do that on the last hand in a pot where even the losing players are throwing $16 calls into the middle AND he only has $8 more to call... just a bad look for him.
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So straddle was to $16, did he put on the double?

Either way, if I'm up huge and the triple straddle is on , and it limps to me I'm limping/completely.... If there is a raise behind me , just fold.
 
Mandos said:
Do you normally have more players than you can accomodate? If it's hard to get a spot at your table, it shouldn't be hard to make him understand that it's +EV long term to pay the $8 to call the straddle (or to straddle yourself sometimes) to keep the table happy and continue getting invites to play.
If you have a hard time filling the table it's a much harder argument to make as moving him down the invite list isn't a realistic option.
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Booyah ^^^
 
Taxi500 said:
this guy is very very nice and respectful. I have nothing personally against him besides how tight he makes the table
Click to expand...
Taxi500 said:
he's the first to piss people off with his lack of social engagement.
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Which one is it?!? If you don't like the guy's vibe or the way he plays or the way he smells then don't invite him back. Simple.
 
Not straddling or wanting to call an $8 straddle, especially knowing it will get raised at some point before the flop and be folded anyways doesn’t seem like it should be an issue. But being part of the group and trying to fit in is. Part of any home game is understanding it’s not a casino game with a random assortment of players. It is a group that know each other pretty well and usually for a long time. Trying to fit in with an existing group isn’t always easy for some people. I wouldn’t say anything about his style of poker to him, that is his way to play, but mentioning to him about being a little more social and contributing to conversations would help the rest of the group accept him more. Especially if he is regular winner. They don’t want to be seen as his cash cow only.
 
Tonystark137 said:
So straddle was to $16, did he put on the double?

Either way, if I'm up huge and the triple straddle is on , and it limps to me I'm limping/completely.... If there is a raise behind me , just fold.
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It was 1/2/4/8/16 for the last hand. he was the $8 and there were like 4-5 callers (Me being one of them with QJo... not exactly excited but it's a semi-bomb/family pot anyway)
 
I guess I am a little confused, how does a super tight rock NIT get up 1.5k playing 1/2 at a home game where everyone knows his style? He must have made some moves or some aggressive plays to get up that much. So are your players just upset that he outplayed them or that after he outplayed them he didn't give them a chance to win back some of their money? Is this guy usually a winning player or was this a one shot deal? I could see giving him some shit for folding in that scenario, but it hardly deserves the ban hammer. He just sounds like a guy who doesn't understand his table image, or maybe he does and that's why he's up so much, hard for us to tell not being there. If he is winning often playing like that maybe the other players need to get better at dealing with this style of play. I'm not sure I would do anything as the host besides busting his balls a little in an effort to get in his head and make him play worse. Good luck!
 
Darthhoodie said:
I guess I am a little confused, how does a super tight rock NIT get up 1.5k playing 1/2 at a home game where everyone knows his style? He must have made some moves or some aggressive plays to get up that much. So are your players just upset that he outplayed them or that after he outplayed them he didn't give them a chance to win back some of their money? Is this guy usually a winning player or was this a one shot deal? I could see giving him some shit for folding in that scenario, but it hardly deserves the ban hammer. He just sounds like a guy who doesn't understand his table image, or maybe he does and that's why he's up so much, hard for us to tell not being there. If he is winning often playing like that maybe the other players need to get better at dealing with this style of play. I'm not sure I would do anything as the host besides busting his balls a little in an effort to get in his head and make him play worse. Good luck!
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Incredible run-good (AA vs KK / Full house over full house) + most of the players are gamble types not really adjusting to his style. AKA, I've got a shark in my guppy pond lol.

Yes they get salty when he wins because it's never been a bluff. They aren't adjusting well enough bc they're not fantastic players and it's not been that long with him. More upset that most guys at the table give/take action if they're up because it's a friendly game meant to primarily be fun, not win big and lock it down for the night. He's won big twice (1k+), lost small twice ($3-500).

Yeah I'm realizing through talking about this that I need to help him understand that live poker home games are more than just how you play it's also how you are perceived. Right now he's perceived as a Red bull drinking, quite, NIT. Everyone else is beer drinking, loud, and LAGgy.
 
I appreciate everyone's advice!

I'm going to leave the country now, enjoy my one year anniversary, lose money at online poker, and drink way too much beer. Cheers!!
Beach Party Running GIF by Party Down South
 
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Ok so if its a bunch of beer drinking good time guys, gambling and having fun and one guy trying to make his rent, I can see why he isn't popular.
 
This whole gripe is ridiculous.

He even chose to put in the double straddle to $8, which is certainly not a nitty play and wasn't required of him. Most nits won't even put in the first straddle.

When it came back around for the $16 total, it's not like he was nitting out of completing the SB for $1 (which would be fine anyway). He was choosing not to dump 4 BB more on a hand where he already put in 4 BB blind, probably just to make the degens happy.

For all you know, he looked down at 49 offsuit and didn't feel like lighting $8 on fire for no real reason.

"But it's the last hand! But he was the big winner! But but but but but!"

Sounds like the main "but" here is that people were sore that they lost and didn't get an artificial chance to claw a bunch of it back on the last hand.

A bunch of sore losers haranguing the big stack for folding is more a problem with the sore losers' behavior than the big stack's play choices.

Imagine if he'd completed with some raggedy hand and cleared 3 more guys out of their stacks on the last hand.

Then that would be the gripe instead.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
Not straddling or wanting to call an $8 straddle, especially knowing it will get raised at some point before the flop and be folded anyways doesn’t seem like it should be an issue. But being part of the group and trying to fit in is. Part of any home game is understanding it’s not a casino game with a random assortment of players. It is a group that know each other pretty well and usually for a long time. Trying to fit in with an existing group isn’t always easy for some people. I wouldn’t say anything about his style of poker to him, that is his way to play, but mentioning to him about being a little more social and contributing to conversations would help the rest of the group accept him more. Especially if he is regular winner. They don’t want to be seen as his cash cow only.
Click to expand...
This lines up pretty well with my thoughts.

It's especially hard to fit in with a group of heavy drinkers when you don't drink.

You also don't know if the money in play is really significant for this guy. I remember joining Berg's game ages ago when I was just a sub-$1/2 NLHE player with a $500 bankroll, sitting circus games with guys who brought more cash in an envelope that I had total to my name. I wasn't unfriendly, but I certainly wasn't going to light money on fire to entertain these guys who could dust off my monthly income and barely notice the loss.
 

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