Host can't pay out everyone, what to do? (2 Viewers)

[Rhodeman77]

I was recently invited to a new home game. I casually know the host, but we aren’t friends really. The game is bigger ($5/5 PLO $1000 max buy-in) than my game ($1/1). It is a true home game, no rake taken.

The game is a mix of cash and electronic payments, but mostly electronic. Debts are settled up at the end of the game to reduce the amount of transactions.

The game got deep, and 1 particular player kept rebuying for $1k at a time and losing it faster than the host could get the next rebuy it seemed!!!

Now here is the problem, we get to the end of the night and it is time to settle up.

The Big Loser (BL going forward)pulls the host aside and tells him he doesn’t have the money to pay what he lost. BL is a pretty regular player in the game apparently, but also a big time gambler in general.

The host pays out the smaller stacks from the cash/payments he does have but myself and the other big winner are both told we will have to wait until the BL pays up to get paid! We got our initial buy-ins back and a portion of our profit, but we are both far from whole.

It has now been over a month and no money still.

What is the best way to handle this? What responsibility does the host have? He is the one that kept allowing the player to rebuy and should know the player’s ability to cover the marker.

In my own game I often will let players “go on the books” but I always pay everyone out at the end of the game and collect the money from the players that borrow. Sometimes it can take a few weeks to collect it, but I work that out with the player. There have been times I cut players off because I don’t feel comfortable with how much they are getting into the game (me) for.

I am also aware that my game of loaning $2-3k is a big difference than $10k to someone.

I have not played in the game since then and messages with the host get the same reply that he is still waiting to get the money from the BL.

I encountered a similar problem in a different game that was run about the same way, except that game collected money for a BB jackpot. The host and players all agreed to pay the shortage from the BB fund. While this still sucked because we all paid into the BB fund at least everyone was able to get their cash out.

This game doesn’t have anything like this “cash reserve” to pay us.

So, what do I do???

 

[Irish]

I get to use this twice in one day!



Tough situation. Curious to see how others chime in, but I think until you get your money back, anything more than what you're doing may just stall the payment.

Trust in the host goes a long way in a home game. That would be the last time I'd be playing there.

 

[KHarp1]

You suck it up and learn a lesson. Basically, this is between you and the host... he and BL had some sort of arrangement, however Informal it may have been, but, it's now on the host to square things up. Hopefully BL just ran into a tight spot and can extricate himself quickly. You hate to lose a player because they've overextended themselves, but, the host owes you the money he fronted to BL.

 

[RocAFella1]

Title should be “can’t” ?

 

[Rieguy]

What responsibility does the host have? He is the one that kept allowing the player to rebuy and should know the player’s ability to cover the marker.

In my own game I often will let players “go on the books” but I always pay everyone out at the end of the game and collect the money from the players that borrow. Sometimes it can take a few weeks to collect it, but I work that out with the player.

All of it? Money is exchanged for chips, whether that is electronically or cash. If there is no confirmation money is received, chips aren't exchanged. This is everywhere I've played. "Borrowing" is foreign to me, but I guess if that's a thing, it's between the host and the player borrowing. Host pays out at the end regardless; they're the one vetting their players. I trust everyone I'm hosting to pay, but if they don't that is on me and I will handle it, not pass it on to someone else.

Not exactly sure what you can do besides follow up for your money.

Also your title needs a "t".

 

[RocAFella1]

Title should be “can’t” ?

Also your title needs a "t".

 

[Eriks]

In theory it’s obviously on the host to cover when he let BL buy-in on the house. In practise, it sounds like you’re likely gonna have to eat the loss. Unless…

 

[SwissChip]

Unpleasent situation.
Payout - big winners first.
No one of his buddies could lean the cash?
If it‘s a cool guy he pays until 2 days. After a month it‘s a jerk.
Good luck!

 

[Schmendr1ck]

This is 100% on the host to cover.

Allowing players to buy in on credit is a choice made by the host, and the host is responsible for any players who fail to pay back what they borrow.

 

[upNdown]

What responsibility does the host have?

His responsibility is to pay you what he owes you. He can and should collect his debts independently of his responsibilities as a host. He's not a serious host and you should never play in his game again unless you don't mind not getting paid.
I don't think you can do much. Maybe you can tell him that he's got x amount of time to pay you before you shit on his reputation everywhere you can. If you want. Personally I'd chalk it up as a loss. Or an expensive lesson about a shit host.

 

[LeLe]

It is unfair only paying out certain players and not all.

Host fucked up by not setting a capped for electrical payment, for example my capped is $1k (500bb) and you have to transfer me the $1k + the additional top up amount before I letting you rebuy in

Host should either

1) Pay out everyone and settle his own arrangement with the BL

2) Talk it out to all the winners and pro-rated the payout arrangement as the amount could be massive and especially if host is not taking any rake

P/S as someone with debt collection background, i will suggest confronting the host with the other big winner in person and try to

1) get paid in full immediately

2) if 1 fail get paid in whatever amount host can afford now and get in writing on how the rest will be paid and by when

3) if 1 & host have zero amount to pay now, get in writing how the rest will be paid
Example : 6 installments of $1k every 1st of the month

Getting paid later is always better than not getting paid

 

[Rhodeman77]

Title should be “can’t” ?

Thanks. Fixed it. Autocorrect on my phone is annoying

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Real simple. BL doesn’t owe you anything. Host owes you your damn money. You didn’t let BL buy in on credit, not your risk.

If he’s running a substantial game he’s not a newbie and is screwing you over.

 

[l33tf0b]

Are other winners getting paid (big winners) outside of yourself?

It may suck to not collect but why does host owe anyone — no rake, he’s not making money. Granted if these are all friends I’ve seen people go on payment plans. If strangers are in the game then they should definitely pay the winners out.

 

[WedgeRock]

First, and this has nothing to do to with your question, all players/winners should share in the shortage pro-rata. I've seen it happen more than once that when there is a bank error, everyone looks at the big winner to absorb the shortage. That is bullshit. Here, if multiple people were pestering the host for their money, maybe the host would be motivated to resolve it. It's easier for the host to just blow off two of you.

More direct to your question, it is the host's responsibility to make you whole. As you said,

He is the one that kept allowing the player to rebuy

I would avoid going back to this game ever, even if you get paid your winnings eventually.

Out of left field question, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but is the host a PCFer?

 

[detroitdad]

The host is responsible imo. I wouldn't go back to his place, and I wouldn't invite him to mine. He can't be trusted

 

[detroitdad]

First, and this has nothing to do to with your question, all players/winners should share in the shortage pro-rata. I've seen it happen more than once that when there is a bank error, everyone looks at the big winner to absorb the shortage. That is bullshit. Here, if multiple people were pestering the host for their money, maybe the host would be motivated to resolve it. It's easier for the host to just blow off two of you.

More direct to your question, it is the host's responsibility to make you whole. As you said,

I would avoid going back to this game ever, even if you get paid your winnings eventually.

Out of left field question, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but is the host a PCFer?

If I'm short, I don't even mention it. I absorb it. Unless the shortage is because I clearly forgot to collect a buy in (this happened once). Then I asked everyone to check their monies.

 

[Machine]

I was recently invited to a new home game. I casually know the host, but we aren’t friends really. The game is bigger ($5/5 PLO $1000 max buy-in) than my game ($1/1). It is a true home game, no rake taken.

The game is a mix of cash and electronic payments, but mostly electronic. Debts are settled up at the end of the game to reduce the amount of transactions.

The game got deep, and 1 particular player kept rebuying for $1k at a time and losing it faster than the host could get the next rebuy it seemed!!!

Now here is the problem, we get to the end of the night and it is time to settle up.

The Big Loser (BL going forward)pulls the host aside and tells him he doesn’t have the money to pay what he lost. BL is a pretty regular player in the game apparently, but also a big time gambler in general.

The host pays out the smaller stacks from the cash/payments he does have but myself and the other big winner are both told we will have to wait until the BL pays up to get paid! We got our initial buy-ins back and a portion of our profit, but we are both far from whole.

It has now been over a month and no money still.

What is the best way to handle this? What responsibility does the host have? He is the one that kept allowing the player to rebuy and should know the player’s ability to cover the marker.

In my own game I often will let players “go on the books” but I always pay everyone out at the end of the game and collect the money from the players that borrow. Sometimes it can take a few weeks to collect it, but I work that out with the player. There have been times I cut players off because I don’t feel comfortable with how much they are getting into the game (me) for.

I am also aware that my game of loaning $2-3k is a big difference than $10k to someone.

I have not played in the game since then and messages with the host get the same reply that he is still waiting to get the money from the BL.

I encountered a similar problem in a different game that was run about the same way, except that game collected money for a BB jackpot. The host and players all agreed to pay the shortage from the BB fund. While this still sucked because we all paid into the BB fund at least everyone was able to get their cash out.

This game doesn’t have anything like this “cash reserve” to pay us.

So, what do I do???

Goto the game, buy in for the smallest about available. If you bust ask for a rebuy and ask the host to write it down, you'll settle up at the end of the night.

 

[Machine]

Payout - big winners first.

Its better to pay out everyone else first, you want to consolidate as much as possible, better for you to owe one person instead of 3 or 4.

 

[WedgeRock]

Its better to pay out everyone else first, you want to consolidate as much as possible, better for you to owe one person instead of 3 or 4.

Maybe better for the host, maybe better for the small winners, but worse for the big winners.

 

[upNdown]

Goto the game, buy in for the smallest about available. If you bust ask for a rebuy and ask the host to write it down, you'll settle up at the end of the night.

Whether or not this is the right strategy, it did occur to me that going back to the game and making a big stink about it throughout the night might not be a bad strategy either. Because maybe the other players don’t know that he’s a shit host. And any time he has chips in front of him, you could point out how much he owes you.

 

[upNdown]

Maybe better for the host, maybe better for the small winners, but worse for the big winners.

We probably shouldn’t even argue about this, since it’s unacceptable to begin with. It’s like arguing about where’s the best place to punch a baby.

 

[Statesvegas]

I host a regular home game with zero rake at low stakes, and I would never consider providing chips to someone without them providing payment when they received the chips from me. We deal solely in cash, but I understand collecting and disbursing via electronic payment and am not knocking that as a method of handling currency.

As the host, I'm the banker. I am the only one taking money and giving out chips. I would never consider giving someone chips that hadn't paid for them at the time they recovered them. If at the end of the night there are insufficient funds in the bank to cover the chips on the table, I would come out of my pocket right then and there because the error HAD to be attributable to me at some point. This has happened exactly once in more than 5 years of regular games for a $20 error.

Did all the players at the table know that the host was extending credit to this player to allow them to keep playing? Die the host know it when he was doing it? Does the host appear concerned about the fact that he decided to loan your money to someone else who does not seem motivated to repay it (which is essentially what he did)?

 

[FDLmold]

Start asking host what kind of assets he has lying around that will cover the shortfall. Golf clubs? Ammo? Whiskey? Jet ski? Tell him you will accept those as a cash equivalent, once value is agreed upon.

 

[Taghkanic]

If you ask the host to pay you now, noting that he extended BL credit, not you, what is the likely result?

(Maybe you already have asked.)

As a host I would never, ever do what this host did. Cardinal rule of hosting violated.

 

[cpac54]

If a host extends credit to others players, that’s on them. Not something I ever do when I host, not even to good friends. They want chips, they pay me money up front. If they don’t have cash on hand, then instant bank transfer works just as well.

It’s the host’s responsibility to ensure that the bank is accurate and that players get paid out.

 

[Josh Kifer]

This is just a shit show. Host owes the money. He extended the credit.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Its better to pay out everyone else first, you want to consolidate as much as possible, better for you to owe one person instead of 3 or 4.

Yep, and the person I always owe is me.

I always pay myself last. That way, I've already eaten any smaller banking errors. If the shortage were bigger than my stack (which has never happened), I would pay out the other players out of my cash and figure out what happened later.

Granted, this is a lot easier at the stakes I host (.25/.50 100 max), and I've only had a couple of occasions where the bank has been short more than $20ish. The most recent one, I tracked it down to a drunk and stuck banker confusing his personal cash with the bank and not moving his rebuys in the right direction.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Its better to pay out everyone else first, you want to consolidate as much as possible, better for you to owe one person instead of 3 or 4.

Taras is that you?

 

[chippitydoodah]

So was the host just hoping the BL would have a sun run and recoup how much he was down thus negating this situation? Host extended credit. Host owes you. BL owes host. You need this guy