"Big" PLO8 hand against a maniac (5 Viewers)

[MrCatPants]

See the title - curious on the lines folks would have taken on this one - preflop is actually the most interesting part of this hand I think, so looking to spur some pre-flop PLO8 discussion.

7 person table, Big PLO8 (5 card PLO8) is the game. .25/.50, poker mavens online with my regular crew.

SB: Maniac, raising 85% of hands pre-flop - $220 stack
BB: ABC player - $100
UTG: Hero, LAG image, big stack at $220 effective
UTG +1: Ultimate TAG, winningest player at the game - $180
HJ: Competent player with shades of a calling station - $80
CU: ABC Player - $60
BT: ABC Player, still a bit of a PLO8 newbie - $110

Hero looks down at:

Action on hero.

 

[Kain8]

A nut suit and an absolute perfect low rundown? Make it $1.75 and let's get ready to rumble!

 

[DrStrange]

Raise - what ever that is. I'd guess $2 but so many games have different rules about what "pot" is from UTG.

The goal is not to isolate, the goal is to build a big multi-way pot. Hero shouldn't take another aggressive action preflop. Let the maniac small blind 3-bet and then flat.

It would be sad to flop a "high-only" board and find much of Hero's equity evaporated.

DrStrange

 

[Goldfish]

Get as much in as possible pre.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Pot.

My plan is somewhat the opposite of DrStrange's: Plan to re-pot if maniac SB raises. In O8, this kind of player puts so much dead money in the pot preflop that you have to take full advantage when you can. Usually it's smarter to limit your preflop investment in O8 with this kind of hand, but playing fit-or-fold against specifically this kind of player will bleed you dry.

However, this plan is subject to adjustment if any of the more solid players get aggressive, especially those who seldom raise preflop. That's the difference between you getting big money in the middle against 358KT or, say, AA237 double suited. If a solid player reraises, plan to go with DrStrange's plan to flat and hope the flop gives you at least some kind of nice low wrap.

 

[Hornet]

I like disguising my hand strength in this position if the SB raises 85% of hands regardless of position. Then I would at least have a choice of whether to 3-bet or not when it gets back to me. I most likely flat, but raising is fine as well.

 

[detroitdad]

Pot..... evaluate next step after the maniac acts

 

[Rhodeman77]

I open to 3BB here every time. It is the same open I always use. Pretty much everyone will play for the extra $1. But you’d be surprised by how many fold when you bet pot ($1.75). It’s like they know you hand is better than average and let it go.

If the call train starts rolling and Maniac pots it I’m most likely potting it back to isolate him.

so many times A2 ends up in 2 people’s hand and we have to worry about getting 1/4 if we don’t make much of a high. If we can get heads up with position vs Maniac I’m happy to take my chances with this hand.

And ummmmmm how do I get an invite to this game?

 

[MrCatPants]

Ok. So hero opens to $1.75 (Pot)

UTG + 1 flat calls
HJ folds
CU folds
BT flat calls
Maniac raises to $6
BB folds

Pot is $12

Action on hero, who still has

 

[upNdown]

Ok. So hero opens to $1.75 (Pot)

UTG flat calls
UTG + 1 folks
HJ folds
CU folds
BT calls
Maniac raises to $6
BB folds

Pot is $12

Action on hero, who still has

I think you want to flat here and hope one or two of the others come along.

 

[Jonesey07]

Flat and crush the flop.

 

[Beakertwang]

I’m flatting the 3-bet, but I’m sort a bit nitty.

Was I the BB, or was this before I joined?

 

[MrCatPants]

I’m flatting the 3-bet, but I’m sort a bit nitty.

Was I the BB, or was this before I joined?

I believe you were the big blind on this one.

 

[detroitdad]

Since you describe yourself as a LAG. I think I'm raising here. Not quite pot, but close

 

[Rhodeman77]

I’m raising to $20 or pot if you want. I want to isolate and get heads up. Much better chance to scoop as well.

this hand goes 4 ways to the flop there is only $24 in The pot and we have to beat/get folds from 2 additional people.

sure there is a good chance the flop comes A69 rainbow and Hero can pot it and take it down, but he still only wins $18 and has to get 3 folds to do it.

let’s get the Maniac to get more money in now and if anyone else comes along we still have a very strong hand in a bloated pot that can put max pressure on on any flop that isn’t a high only board.

 

[detroitdad]

I’m raising to $20 or pot if you want. I want to isolate and get heads up. Much better chance to scoop as well.

this hand goes 4 ways to the flop there is only $24 I. The pot and we have to beat/get folds from 2 other people.

sure there is a good chance the flop comes A69 rainbow and Hero can pot it and take it down, but he still only wins $18 and has to get 3 folds to do it.

let’s get the Maniac to get more money in now and if anyone else comes along we still have a very strong hand in a bloated pot that can put max pressure on on any flop that isn’t a high only board.

yep. Almost exactly how I worded my post lol

 

[upNdown]

I’m raising to $20 or pot if you want. I want to isolate and get heads up. Much better chance to scoop as well.

this hand goes 4 ways to the flop there is only $24 in The pot and we have to beat/get folds from 2 other people.

sure there is a good chance the flop comes A69 rainbow and Hero can pot it and take it down, but he still only wins $18 and has to get 3 folds to do it.

let’s get the Maniac to get more money in now and if anyone else comes along we still have a very strong hand in a bloated pot that can put max pressure on on any flop that isn’t a high only board.

I need to do some reading on this game. I really don't think you want to isolate here with this hand, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Ok. So hero opens to $1.75 (Pot)

UTG flat calls
UTG + 1 folks
HJ folds
CU folds
BT calls
Maniac raises to $6
BB folds

Pot is $12

Action on hero, who still has

According to the OP, Hero is UTG. I'm operating from the assumption that the caller you have listed here is actually UTG+1, the "ultimate TAG." This isn't the most favorable thing in the world, but still not a reason not to pot.

Pot, to $23.75 off the top of my head. Ideally you can isolate SB. Be wary of weird developments like "ultimate TAG" deciding to re-pot. But if SB wants to get it all in the middle, happily oblige him. Or if everyone decides to fold and give you the existing pot for free, that's not so bad either.

There's nothing especially wrong with flatting and letting the hand play out post-flop. I can see many arguments for that; PLO8 is mostly a post-flop game and doesn't always favor heavy aggression preflop. But you're going to typically be a ridiculous favorite against a player like SB if you can narrow the field to just him. And even if you can't, A234Q double-suited still tends to play very well in a big multi-way pot.

 

[detroitdad]

I need to do some reading on this game. I really don't think you want to isolate here with this hand, but I could be wrong.

5 card PLO hi/lo can be a beautifully violent game. I don't want to play any hand 4 way. Plus, as Adam stated. We need to build a pot right now so that we can have some fun betting it on the flop!

 

[Josh Kifer]

I need to do some reading on this game. I really don't think you want to isolate here with this hand, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I'd be worried about isolating with a low draw and a flush draw. I hate isolating with the weakest hand, but I'll be the first to say, I'm a holdem player and have alot to learn on Omaha games.

 

[trigs]

I pot preflop and pot flop. Why would I want to just call flop and probably keep 4 people in? So much equity disappears then.

 

[grebe]

I want to say flat and get ready to play a big multi way pot hoping for some low spades, but I like what @Jimulacrum says, because I feel that I get bled a lot in omaha games. Re-pot to iso! I dont know what happens if we miss the flop though....

 

[Rhodeman77]

I always feel better about my A2 low when heads up. I can exert maximum pressure with any kind of high hand, a pair of anything that can make 2 pair, wheel draw, etc.

when there is an extra caller in the hand there is a good chance they have or are drawing to the same low and you could be getting 1/4 if the hand gets to showdown.

weaker A23 hands that aren’t double suited and or some Broadway potential I play as a call only. Hoping for 4 ways to the flop/turn so that if I am looking at getting 1/4 I at least break even.

 

[upNdown]

I pot preflop and pot flop. Why would I want to just call flop and probably keep 4 people in? So much equity disappears then.

My thinking? Because if there's a low, you're getting a piece of it, so the more the merrier. And if there's no low, AQ double suited is just barely playable.
Edit - I didn't mean to flat the flop. We're not there yet.

 

[MrCatPants]

According to the OP, Hero is UTG. I'm operating from the assumption that the caller you have listed here is actually UTG+1, the "ultimate TAG." This isn't the most favorable thing in the world, but still not a reason not to pot.

Pot, to $23.75 off the top of my head. Ideally you can isolate SB. Be wary of weird developments like "ultimate TAG" deciding to re-pot. But if SB wants to get it all in the middle, happily oblige him. Or if everyone decides to fold and give you the existing pot for free, that's not so bad either.

There's nothing especially wrong with flatting and letting the hand play out post-flop. I can see many arguments for that; PLO8 is mostly a post-flop game and doesn't always favor heavy aggression preflop. But you're going to typically be a ridiculous favorite against a player like SB if you can narrow the field to just him. And even if you can't, A234Q double-suited still tends to play very well in a big multi-way pot.

you are right - I corrected the post.

 

[Rhodeman77]

My thinking? Because if there's a low, you're getting a piece of it, so the more the merrier. And if there's no low, AQ double suited is just barely playable.

I don’t like a piece! I want the whole thing or 3/4!!!

 

[detroitdad]

My thinking? Because if there's a low, you're getting a piece of it, so the more the merrier. And if there's no low, AQ double suited is just barely playable.

Your also drawing to a higher straight than the wheel. Some of my biggest wins in PLO8 have been with a wheel and 6 to 8 high straight.

I would rather build a big pot pre flop with a maniac than play a small 4 way pot.

 

[trigs]

My thinking? Because if there's a low, you're getting a piece of it, so the more the merrier. And if there's no low, AQ suited is just barely playable.

A234Q with 2 suits to the ace and queen is the damn nuts in BigO as far as I can tell lol.

 

[upNdown]

A234Q with 2 suits to the ace and queen is the damn nuts in BigO as far as I can tell lol.

I mean, there's no low almost half the time, but whatevs

 

[Josh Kifer]

A234Q with 2 suits to the ace and queen is the damn nuts in BigO as far as I can tell lol.

Errr.... That's not the nuts IMO... Or even close to the nuts.... It's a good hand...