CatPants' WSOP PAHWM #3 - Event 13: $600 PLO Deep Stack (3 Viewers)

MrCatPants

MrCatPants

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Third out of four PLO hands I'll be posting. This one is not as raucous, but still some interesting decision points (including if I should have really been in the hand at all).

Overall structure of Event #13: https://www.wsop.com/pdfs/structuresheets/structure_5219_21678.pdf

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 25 minutes ago and we are already down to about 420 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 265k


SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Action on hero.
 
Last edited:
MrCatPants said:
SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Action on hero.
Click to expand...
I am going to play the nit on this one. With 70bb and 3rd in chips I see no reason to get involved here. Non nut suited and two single gaps at the top of the hand? I am far from an expert, but I think this is a fold.
 
MrCatPants said:
Third out of four PLO hands I'll be posting. This one is raucous, but still some interesting decision points (including if I should have really been in the hand at all).

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 25 minutes ago and we are already down to about 420 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 265k


SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Action on hero.
Click to expand...
I’m assuming you opened here but I strongly feel that this is a fold - this is kind of the spot that got me busted out of the 1500roe in 20th place a couple wsops ago
 
Rhodeman77 said:
Motion carried, should be a fold, mostly because of position.
Click to expand...
And having a stack worth protecting, and because of the strength of the hand too.

That said, I am probably the one guy in this thread thancould be overruled. I have certainly not done as much PLO playing. Have done some reading though.

If you were in late position on a short stack with a chance to steal, I would like this open better.
 
Continuing since I clearly play this hand. Agree with the sentiments though, regardless of outcome shouldn't have been in this hand.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 25 minutes ago and we are already down to about 420 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 265k


SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Hero opens to "standard"-ish 14k
CO calls
BTN calls
SB folds
BB folds

Pot is 57k.

Flop is :kh::th::3c:.

Action on hero.
 
The flop hit you just enough to get you in trouble. Top pair, gutter to the low end of the straight, and a mediocre backdoor flush draw. You‘re out of position against a shortie who can take almost half your stack, and a guy who has by far the biggest stack at the table. If you bet into 2 people here and get called, you’re most likely either way behind, or up against a big draw. I’d proceed with caution, and check here.
 
I don't think your fold equity is great here with btn in the hand, which would be my main motivation to bet here. That said this not the worst hand to see a turn with, unless one of the villian's pots it.

On the other hand, while there are a lot of enticing turn cards, we don't have a path to nuts other than running 87, running 76, or running AQ with no hearts falling, or catching KK perfect. Running clubs might be good, but maybe not if the flop checks around.

However, we bet half pot as a pure bluff here, we only need it to get through 1 time in 3, and we do have the preflop initiative, and would be setting our price, so to speak. Maybe that's possible even with the deep stack button? And we aren't on a pure bluff, there are surely some good turn cards available to be us.

So I think I have talked myself into a half-pot bet here planning to fold to a raise, and evaluating the turn if called.

I can be convinced on a check-call or a check-fold line as well.
 
Last edited:
JustinInMN said:
I don't think your fold equity is great here with btn in the hand, which would be my main motivation to bet here. That said this not the worst hand to see a turn with, unless one of the villian's pots it.

On the other hand, while there are a lot of enticing turn cards, we don't have a path to nuts other than running 87, running 76, or running AQ with no hearts falling, or catching KK perfect. Running clubs might be good, but maybe not if the flop checks around.

However, we bet half pot as a pure bluff here, we only need it to get through 1 time in 3, and we do have the preflop initiative, and would be setting our price, so to speak. Maybe that's possible even with the deep stack button? And we aren't on a pure bluff, there are surely some good turn cards available to be us.

So I think I have talked myself into a half-pot bet here planning to fold to a raise, and evaluating the turn if called.

I can be convinced on a check-call or a check-fold line as well.
Click to expand...
I just think this flop really hits the other's ranges so well, and since we don't have any hearts our opponents are more likely to have flush draws as well, limiting our outs to improve. Sure we could hit two pair or a backdoor straight, but how many of these also bring a flush? I'm keeping this pot as small as possible unless we significantly improve.
 
Chippy McChiperson said:
I just think this flop really hits the other's ranges so well, and since we don't have any hearts our opponents are more likely to have flush draws as well, limiting our outs to improve. Sure we could hit two pair or a backdoor straight, but how many of these also bring a flush? I'm keeping this pot as small as possible unless we significantly improve.
Click to expand...
This is definitely the argument for checking and folding. I think I favor betting mostly because I think villians will miss enough to pick this up, or if they call, there are some turns that work in our favor, and a minor third point backdoor clubs are more likely to be good than if the flop goes check-check.

That said I get any direction on hero's hand is speculative and it's going to be difficult to continue past the turn without a non-heart Q, 8, 7, or 6, or any king showing up
 
Lots of second best and beyond options here. Hero plans to check-fold.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 25 minutes ago and we are already down to about 420 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 265k


SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Hero opens to "standard"-ish 14k
CO calls
BTN calls
SB folds
BB folds

Flop is :kh::th::3c:.

Hero CHECKS
CO CHECKS
BTN CHECKS

Turn brings :kh::th::3c::8c:

Pot is 57k.

Action on hero.
 
Probably the best card you could ask for, but even so your only clean outs to the nuts are the 7 of spades or 7 of diamonds. Still, 1st and 3rd pair, open-ended, and a club flush draw make your hand look much better here, especially since both of your opponents checked on a pretty wet flop. I'd lead out for 30k here, and be tempted to go with it if CO bombs over top.
 
MrCatPants said:
Flop is :kh::th::3c:.

Hero CHECKS
CO CHECKS
BTN CHECKS

Turn brings :kh::th::3c::8c:

Pot is 57k.

Action on hero.
Click to expand...
I'm checking to see what the CO does. It's pretty obvious the Button doesn't have anything unless he has a propensity toward checking good hands in position, which seems unlikely.

If the CO bets, probably have to release, especially if the Button calls.
 
bergs said:
Board is too wet for a trap. 40 min levels, the number of BB we have in our stack, and the payouts so flat, I’m still taking an ultra conservative line here (and I HATE conservative play).
Click to expand...
Did you spill again?
 
bergs said:
Board is too wet for a trap. 40 min levels, the number of BB we have in our stack, and the payouts so flat, I’m still taking an ultra conservative line here (and I HATE conservative play).
Click to expand...
*30 minute levels
 
MrCatPants said:
Turn brings :kh::th::3c::8c:

Pot is 57k.

Action on hero.
Click to expand...
Mostly excited to catch this turn, but we still need to hit something to make the nuts, which is pretty much the non-club 7. Also I would not feel great in this spot if we made the club flush since no one bet the flop. Also we have given up the initiative.

I am pretty content to check here and try and get to showdown. Hope we improve and can maybe go for value on the river, but I am feeling that only with a king or non-club 7.

We consider check and call on other non-nut improvements as well.
 
Checks around again. We make an "ok" backdoor flush.

Context:
Level 16, money bubble burst about 25 minutes ago and we are already down to about 420 of the 6000+ runners. No notable pay jumps until the top 50 or so, so pay jumps are not a concern.
Been at this table for a while. One guy, who claims to have never played PLO before, has been winning literally like every hand - backdoors like crazy. Sun run like you seldom see for about an hour.

Blinds 3k/6k with a 6k BB ante
Average stack overall in the event is about 265k


SB: 850K
BB 90k
UTG : 120k
UITG + 1 (Hero): 425k
MP: 240k
HJ: 175k
CO: 180k
BTN: (Guy who can't lose): 1.4M

Folds to hero who looks down at :kd::jc::9c::8s:

Hero opens to "standard"-ish 14k
CO calls
BTN calls
SB folds
BB folds

Flop is :kh::th::3c:.

Hero CHECKS
CO CHECKS
BTN CHECKS

Turn brings :kh::th::3c::8c:

Hero CHECKS
CO CHECKS
BTN CHECKS

River is :kh::th::3c::8c::4c:

Pot is 57k.

Action on Hero.
 
River: Seems like you have only showdown value, unless you have a read that the villains would really call off with a lower flush.
 
I’d lead out whatever amount I’d call if I checked and was bet into. You get raised, easy fold. Maybe you get Qc and possibly even Kc to fold if you lead out.

I think check calling is probably awful. Check folding obviously an option but I like being cautiously aggressive here.
 

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