Tourney 12/12/5/6 vs 8/8/8/5 (4 Viewers)

[Jake14mw]

Oh, you know what, my bad, 3000 is our starting stack online now for Pokerstars since their starting blinds are 15/30. Our home games are starting stacks of 2000 with 10/20 blinds.

The old Chip Love me would have gone with:
15 x 5
13 x 25
11 x 100
1 x 500
or maybe even 15/17/11

But I'm thinking this does give too many 5s that are colored up fairly quickly, so my thinking now is:
10 x 5
14 x 25
11 x 100
1 x 500

 

[allforcharity]

But I'm thinking this does give too many 5s that are colored up fairly quickly, so my thinking now is:
10 x 5
14 x 25
11 x 100
1 x 500

You can do it this way, or any way you want.

However, as your starting stacks get bigger, your acquisition cost goes up, so take that into consideration if there's a particular set you're looking to get.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You can do it this way, or any way you want.

However, as your starting stacks get bigger, your acquisition cost goes up, so take that into consideration if there's a particular set you're looking to get.

It appears that Jake already has his set.

Once you have the chips you may as well use them. I have many "Chip Love" starting stacks, as well as leaner stacks. It is interesting to see how players loosen up when they have piles of chips, even though the effective stacks are the same.

There is no rule saying what starting stack is the best, but as a general rule, if the chips are slippery or you feel time constrained while coloring up, use smaller stacks.

 

[WedgeRock]

My favorite tournament set is a T100,000 because the inefficient T500 and T1000 are at the start of the tournament... So you don't get any 12/12/5/6 weirdness... It just seems more natural to have fewer denoms as the chip value increases...

T500x10
T1000x10
T5000x7
T25,000x2

My current T100k chipset uses T500, T1000, T5000, T20000 and T50000. Starting stacks are

T500x10
T1000x10
T5000x9
T20,000x2

I like it even more better-er.

 

[BGinGA]

My favorite tournament set is a T100,000 because the inefficient T500 and T1000 are at the start of the tournament... So you don't get any 12/12/5/6 weirdness... It just seems more natural to have fewer denoms as the chip value increases...

T500x10
T1000x10
T5000x7
T25,000x2

My current T100k chipset uses T500, T1000, T5000, T20000 and T50000. Starting stacks are

T500x10
T1000x10
T5000x9
T20,000x2

I like it even more better-er.

I'm a huge fan of the T500-base set. With a rack each of T500-T1000-T5000-T25K chips per table, it allows for starting stacks of T50k (10/10/7) up to T300k (10/10/7/10) and the extra T5000s color-up the T500/T1000 chips exactly with perfect efficiency.

The 400-chip set also has sufficient T25k chips to host 50% re-buy events with stacks sizes up to T200k (10/10/7/6).

Starting blinds can be 500/500, 500/1000, or 1000/2000 -- so anywhere from a miniscule 25bb super-turbo (with optional re-buy, great for charity events) to a gigantic 600bb super-deepstack (and everything in-between), depending on how you want any given event to play out. Can even be used to host BBA events, if desired.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I like the Base T500 set-up so much, that my last set of chips was built with a base T500. It marks my second set where the T500 is the starting chip.

With it, in theory I can seat 18 players with a 600 chip set. In theory, of course, because Covid has disrupted my chance to get them into play.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

With a structure like
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000

Don't you think it's a pity to buy an entire rack of chips that would just be used for 2 levels ?
Or 4 if you use levels 500-1000 and 500-1500...

 

[Poker Zombie]

With a structure like
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000

Don't you think it's a pity to buy an entire rack of chips that would just be used for 2 levels ?
Or 4 if you use levels 500-1000 and 500-1500...

I use different structures for each set.
One uses:
500-1000
1000-2000
1500-3000

The other uses (will use):
500-1000
1000-2000
1500-3000
1500-3000 + Ante

That's still just 3-4 levels, but you need far fewer T500s than you would need T25s, because you will rarely use more than one T500 on any bet. T25s on the other hand require the use of up to 3 on any single bet, and with a T25 base you may have a 75-150 level, which requires 5x T25 chips just to fold the blinds. Therefore, it could be argued that you need 3-5 times more T25s than you would need T500s.

Don't get me wrong, I love base T5, base T25, base T100, and base T500 structures, each for their own reasons. The only one I don't care much for is the T1 base. It doesn't play better than T5, costs a lot more, and is uncommon. I may still put one together someday, but I just don't see the use.

 

[BGinGA]

You can use them for up to six levels, if you really wamted to (which is longer than some other structures use the lowest denoms):
0/500
500/500
500/1000
500/1500
1000/2000
1500/3000

And that doesn't include slower structures that use 2500/5000, 3500/7000, and/or 7500/15000.

 

[Mr Winberg]

but you need far fewer T500s

I know about BG's "4 racks per table" approach, but which breakdown do you use in your T500 base starting stacks?
I haven't tried it myself, but I can't help feeling that 10 T500 is a bit too many.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I have been using 6xT500s, and it is plenty - and I am firmly in the "hate making change" camp. I will up it to 8 when I introduce antes, but I suspect that won't be necessary.

 

[Mr Winberg]

I have been using 6xT500s, and it is plenty - and I am firmly in the "hate making change" camp. I will up it to 8 when I introduce antes, but I suspect that won't be necessary.

Thanks, 6 is what I figured. Regarding antes, if you're using BBA I don't think you need more. Perhaps if you have a 500/500-500 and/or a 500/1500-1500 level.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Thanks, 6 is what I figured. Regarding antes, if you're using BBA I don't think you need more. Perhaps if you have a 500/500-500 and/or a 500/1500-1500 level.

I will use a BBA, so I agree 6 is probably fine, but since there is an extra level where the 500 plays in the SB I decided to up it to 8.

That set of chips (Semi-Custom Royals) had to be bought in increments of 25. I could have gone with 25 fewer T500s, but I would have still needed 25 of something to fill the rack. Which circles me back to the comment I made about @Jake14mw 's set;

Once you have the chips you may as well use them.

I had to fill a rack, so I may as well add them to the starting stack.

 

[WedgeRock]

Don't you think it's a pity to buy an entire rack of chips that would just be used for 2 levels ?

Add antes. You'll get alot more use.

Any blind of 500, 1500, 2500, 3500... Then ditto for the antes.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

Add antes. You'll get alot more use.

Any blind of 500, 1500, 2500, 3500... Then ditto for the antes.

If you play with BBA, it does not change the number of levels with them in play. If you play with a regular ante, the first level with ante would then be 2000-4000. In the previous levels, a 500 ante would be huge.

2500 - 5000 is only 25% increase compare to previous level.
3500 - 5000 is only 16% increase.

So if you have a very slow (I mean in terms of blinds progression) structure, I can see the advantage of a T500 structure.

But for a "normal" structure (with blinds increase ranging from 33% - 50%), a T500 structure with a rack of T500 per table is overkill imho.

 

[BGinGA]

If you play with BBA, it does not change the number of levels with them in play.

It doesn't alter the number of levels they are used (typically four), but it alters the total amount of them that are used during those levels. Hence, more use.

for a "normal" structure (with blinds increase ranging from 33% - 50%), a T500 structure with a rack of T500 per table is overkill imho.

Ah, but it is established and accepted fact that:

even racks >>>>> overkill. Every time.

OCD matters.

 

[Poker Zombie]

But for a "normal" structure (with blinds increase ranging from 33% - 50%), a T500 structure with a rack of T500 per table is overkill imho.

In one of my T500 sets, the structure uses very large jumps. 67-100% increases each level. That's 1 hour that the T500s remain in play. 1 hour of a 4 hour tournament. 25% of the night, and they constitute only 16% of the set. When you think about it, T500 can be ultra-efficient.

 

[BGinGA]

In one of my T500 sets, the structure uses very large jumps. 67-100% increases each level. That's 1 hour that the T500s remain in play. 1 hour of a 4 hour tournament. 25% of the night, and they constitute only 16% of the set. When you think about it, T500 can be ultra-efficient.

Ditto on my semi-aggressive 59% avg structure, which contains increases ranging from 50% to 67%. The T500 chips are in play during the first four levels of the 14-level event.

 

[chutracheese]

Ditto on my semi-aggressive 59% avg structure, which contains increases ranging from 50% to 67%. The T500 chips are in play during the first four levels of the 14-level event.

Would you mind posting this?

 

[krafticus]

Tl:dr
12/12/5/6

 

[chutracheese]

Was that for me?
I got that part. I was asking for BGinGA's structure.
Thanks though.

 

[krafticus]

Was that for me?
I got that part. I was asking for BGinGA's structure.
Thanks though.

Gotcha. Was just adding my answer. Tl:dr (too long, didn’t read)

good luck, good bye

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Was that for me?
I got that part. I was asking for BGinGA's structure.
Thanks though.

I'm sure this isn't right because it only uses T500 for 3 levels, but it may be close. I could not come up with one that used T500 for 4 levels without either a minimum increase of less than 50% or one exceeding 67% somewhere... Also, ignore the location of the breaks. I didn't feel like messing with my 5 levels per hour schedule for this experiment.

 

[B.C.]

Mostly cash games for our group and the only tournaments we play are a 10 handed WSOP/Aussie Millions satellite once a month with 30k starting stacks.

I have my tournament sets now down to 600 chips:

160 x 25
160 x 100
80 x 500
120 x 1000
60 x 5000
20 x 25000

 

[BGinGA]

I'm sure this isn't right because it only uses T500 for 3 levels, but it may be close. I could not come up with one that used T500 for 4 levels without either a minimum increase of less than 50% or one exceeding 67% somewhere... Also, ignore the location of the breaks. I didn't feel like messing with my 5 levels per hour schedule for this experiment.

View attachment 482716

Close, but your schedule doesn't maintain 50%-67% increases (L2 is only a 33% increase in total blinds, while L3 is 75% and L4 is 71%). You aren't calculating the total increase in blinds per level (which isn't the same percentage as the BB increase when the SB isn't .5*BB). You can also simultaneously color-up the T5000 chips at your L10 if you change L12 to 75K/150K (see below).

Ditto on my semi-aggressive 59% avg structure, which contains increases ranging from 50% to 67%. The T500 chips are in play during the first four levels of the 14-level event.

Would you mind posting this?

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

@BGinGA Gotcha! TOTAL blinds. Not just BB as I was calculating. I'll revise my calculation for future analysis.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Tl:dr
12/12/5/6

I will sometimes even go 12/12/3/7 or 8/8/4/7.

I think T500 in a T25-based structure is almost-but-not-quite unnecessary, and I like to keep them to the minimum number required to avoid mid-tourney pots with tons of T100s.

 

[Grimalkin]

I’m digging this great thread up from the abyss.

I’ve gone down a real slippery slope in the matter of a month, ordering new chips to add to my royals set every few weeks and now I’m thinking about moar.

Currently I’m at:
250 T25
250 T100
150 T500
150 T1000
75 T5000

Planning to make it:

250 T25
250 T100
150 T500
225 T1000
150 T5000
50 T25000

I’m going to be running T25000 starting stacks. but want enough chips for 30 players 3 tables with 15 rebuys.

Currently planning to do 12/12/5/6/3 for up to 20 players but 8/8/4/7/3 for up to 30 players.

1. Can I get away with 8/8/4/7/3 for up to 30 players, with regards to T500 chips on the table? (Is 4 too little?). I’d prefer not to have to add 50 more T500 chips to make it 8/8/6/6/3 but can do if it’s better play.

2. I’m a little short on the T5000 with projected rebuys going to the T5000 chips, if 30 players and 15 rebuy then I need 165 chips which doesn’t account for colour up demand which really is quite small for T25 and T100 chips totaling only 30K or 6 T5000
Chips).

Instead of getting more T5000 I was thinking I can do T25K chips to share the load of colour ups and rebuys. Is this okay to do or not encouraged for rebuys? (I’m concerned about change making)

3. Are there enough 1K chips on the table with a 8/8/4/7/3 where I do not need to add more chips for colour ups from 1K?

Any thoughts would be great.

 

[JustinInMN]

1. Can I get away with 8/8/4/7/3 for up to 30 players, with regards to T500 chips on the table? (Is 4 too little?). I’d prefer not to have to add 50 more T500 chips to make it 8/8/6/6/3 but can do if it’s better play.

I would say yes, you could. And yes 4 T500s is fine because you never need more than one chip in any bet since T1000 chips are also present.

2. I’m a little short on the T5000 with projected rebuys going to the T5000 chips, if 30 players and 15 rebuy then I need 165 chips which doesn’t account for colour up demand which really is quite small for T25 and T100 chips totaling only 30K or 6 T5000
Chips).

Instead of getting more T5000 I was thinking I can do T25K chips to share the load of colour ups and rebuys. Is this okay to do or not encouraged for rebuys? (I’m concerned about change making)

This is right on the fence of T25k being useful. Since you are doing T25k starting stacks and planning 30 players that's 750k total in play. (Before considering re-entries) So 20*T25k would cover T500k of that.

3. Are there enough 1K chips on the table with a 8/8/4/7/3 where I do not need to add more chips for colour ups from 1K?

I would do your color ups with T5k and maybe T25k if you go that route. (Do T5k chips for 25s and 100k, and T25k if you end up coloring up bigger chips.

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

[allforcharity]

You probably won't need more than 25x T25k if you reach your goal of 150x T5k.