25NL Zone: Fold/Call/Raise to cold 4! from BB? (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

CO RFI 3BB, Hero 3! to 10.40BB with AQs and BB cold 4! to 30.20BB. CO folds and action is on Hero. I folded but I'd be curious to what you guys think.

Snowie mixes raise/call in this spot against perfectly balanced opponent. My belief is that this is for value and these guys are not balanced.
I'm looking at a flip IP vs TT+ I think. I'll D/L the hands tomorrow to see.

 

[boltonguy]

This is what Snowie thinks V's range here looks like (not in Ignition but in Snowie-land).
I dont think I'm doing well against that range until it gets down to AJs ...

 

[boltonguy]

I dont know - is position that valuable? Looks like we're quite a dog here. A flip would be optimistic.

 

[Legend5555]

I'd for at these stakes vs zone players. If need stats before I know otherwise. If we call, then we commit any TP or flush draw board. Otherwise we kinda just have to fold most boards given SPR unless villain bets REALLY small.

 

[grebe]

I fold AQ here and jam AK and JJ+

 

[grebe]

@boltonguy you are playing the absolute worst form a poker there is. You are playing against the top of everybody's ranges. For the life of me, I cannot understand why.

I would stake you in the games I play in and then just not play anymore and build my roll off your knowledge. You would probably destroy small stakes on poker bros if you could handle how slow they play.

 

[boltonguy]

@grebe I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.

At the end of last year I played a few sessions of 10NL and 25NL normal 6-max on ACR (2 tables) and had a pretty decent win rate >30BB/100 over about 950+ hands (small sample), but that took so long to play. It was definitely much softer than fast fold. But it was slow. Heck I can do over 900 hands/week on Zone/Blitz! I'm just addicted to the action!

I am comfortably beating 10NL ACR Blitz. I am down less than one buyin at 25NL Zone on ignition over 9500 hands (-0.93BB/100) and am making some adjustments (fold to river jams!) that I think will get me beating the game this year. I am really close! The only challenge is the anonymous nature of the game and the resultant spewiness causes a pretty wide standard deviation on the pool's play so you cant always fold (you just need to figure out when they're full of sh1t), whereas on ACR the standard deviation in play is so much more narrow.

I do need to mix in more "normal" play on 6-max tables and move up in stakes. Sadly once I am regularly beating 25NL Zone I'll probably just move up in stakes on Zone/Blitz! It is a sickness!

 

[feltschmerz]

I like the fold.

I think at those stakes, the safe assumption from a cold 4-bet out of the BB is that the only thing Villain is usually holding that you could be beating is AJ (and AJ's not going to make the cut for some Villains).

Sure, he could be one of the rare people who's balancing his ranges, but almost nobody balances their 4-bet ranges very much. And your implied odds aren't great with the money left behind after the 4-bet.

This hand reminds me why I'm tempted to shell out for a HUD that will compile actual range data for the entire villain population.

 

[boltonguy]

I have a HUD that I use on ACR - Ignition is anonymous so HUDs dont work.

 

[feltschmerz]

I have a HUD that I use on ACR - Ignition is anonymous so HUDs dont work.

Well, they don't work to tell you about a given villain from session to session, but my understanding is that both Holdem Manager and Hand2Note will show you the RFI ranges for the entire pool of villains that you've played.

EDIT: I mean all preflop ranges, not just RFI

 

[boltonguy]

Well, they don't work to tell you about a given villain from session to session, but my understanding is that both Holdem Manager and Hand2Note will show you the RFI ranges for the entire pool of villains that you've played.

EDIT: I mean all preflop ranges, not just RFI

Aah I see - capture the hands to get pool data, not individual user data. I use PT4 and upload all hole cards (so complete hand histories for all players in each hand I play) after 24 hours.

PT4 has the most challenging reporting environment so even thought I have over 100k complete hands (all hole cards) I cant get the type of info out of it that you're talking about. I need an intern! Or maybe I should change HUDs.

 

[boltonguy]

Well I like the fold but the Ace was live! He also had one of my runner-runner flush outs!

 

[feltschmerz]

Well I like the fold but the Ace was live! He also had one of my runner-runner flush outs!

View attachment 845010

Wait. So you can find out what Villain had even when you *fold*? Wow, I've gotten so conditioned to Global, where you only find out what the other guy had when you lose.

 

[boltonguy]

Yes the one benefit to ignition is that after 24 hours you can download hand histories with all players hole cards. The downside is that it is anonymous so you can’t correlate behavior with any one player but you can model the player pool.