4 Color Decks - Yay or Nay? (1 Viewer)

I think Tilley’s book is the most authoritative, though it was written a few decades ago if you want to explore any innovations since about the ~1970s.

P.S. The origins of playing cards are endlessly disputed. A lot of what one reads online is either wrong, or fails to give adequate disclaimers.

It seems the only safe answers are “No one really knows” and “Multiple civilizations came up with similar ideas a very very long time ago.”

But leaving aside China, Arabia, et al., Tilley (above) makes it clear that what we now consider playing cards derives largely from France and England, with some Italian and German contributions, going back 250-300 years.

One thing which struck me is that the fundamental size and proportions of cards basically has been unchanged since the late 18th century. Other formats have been tried (round cards, smaller cards, bigger cards, etc.) but these never rise above novelties. To me that says that the current size is not just a convention, but the “right” one that fits the most players.

The advent of poker in the U.S. seems to have led to key design innovations like indices, which didn’t come in until the mid-19th century. But for the most part, basic card design was set before poker even existed.

One thing which used to be a major concern was deck security. Fresh decks were wrapped in elaborately printed and sealed paper packages, sometimes also tied with string, and tightly regulated by governments both to reap taxes and reduce cheating.

You still sometimes see companies making fancy-ish cases, but these are pretty tame compared to the artistry of old wrappers.

The ones below aren’t even that old, since they are stamped “poker.”

IMG_9399.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Awesome, thank you!

By chance, do you happen to know similar books (or good online ressources) about the history of poker chips? Design, trends, etc? I have been meaning to open a thread to ask about this kind of stuff, but while you are here…
A good online resource detailing the history of poker chips?

PCF is probably the best. Start a thread. Between @BGinGA and @CCA_SM_Director I'd bet that they know all that there is to know about those little disks.
 
If you want to page through the designs of chips in chronological order, Dale Seymour’s Antique Poker Chips is fascinating. He also has some essays about their history.
 
It's funny how many people compare 4-color decks to Uno.

I wonder how many people would use 4-colors if Uno was actually an enjoyable game.
 
Yay. But I prefer Desjgn.
We used Faded Spade, which were awesome. But players couldn't handle the slickness. Switched over to Desjgn and they were fine, and accepted well by the group.

We have switched back now to standard decks Modiano Peek-a-Boo, and Aristo. I actually don't mind the standard, we starred on 4 color as I use those online, same scenario you described.

Basically a toss up, no one is avoiding the game over a 4 color deck for us though.
 
We used Faded Spade, which were awesome. But players couldn't handle the slickness. Switched over to Desjgn and they were fine, and accepted well by the group.

We have switched back now to standard decks Modiano Peek-a-Boo, and Aristo. I actually don't mind the standard, we starred on 4 color as I use those online, same scenario you described.

Basically a toss up, no one is avoiding the game over a 4 color deck for us though.

I have a design idea that will fix the 2 vs. 4 colour debate, even solve for colour blindness of all types. It's probably been done before, but maybe I should look for a patent. Won't change the manufacturing process, either, so anyone can adopt it.
 
I have a design idea that will fix the 2 vs. 4 colour debate, even solve for colour blindness of all types. It's probably been done before, but maybe I should look for a patent. Won't change the manufacturing process, either, so anyone can adopt it.
1692906181486.png
 
Yay from me… but my players hated them when we gave them a try.
It’s almost like my brain is only expecting to see 2 colors and refuses to process the new colors correctly or something. It’s weird
 
Awesome, thank you!

By chance, do you happen to know similar books (or good online ressources) about the history of poker chips? Design, trends, etc? I have been meaning to open a thread to ask about this kind of stuff, but while you are here…
One of the benefits of being a CCA member is you can access and request items from the club library.

Here is the link to look through what is available to CCA members.

http://www.ccgtcc.com/library.html
 
I like 4 colors online because you can actually see 4 colors......the decks I have tried are just too light of color for the blue and green.....so I pass in my home game.
 
I use these exact cards in my game.
Same. I don't like them.

Four colors is a no-brainer as far as usability goes.
You don't have any colour-blind players.

Two colors is a hangover from days 200+ years ago when printing technology was limited and using multiple colors was prohibitively expensive. The only reason to stick with this standard is hidebound traditionalism or an inability to consider improvements.
This is the first solid argument for 4 colour decks that I've ever heard.

In bad lighting, every added visual cue is a help.
I don't think I've ever mistake a 2 colour decks' suits for each other. I like 2 colour (probably because that's what I grew up with) and if it induces errosr in my opponents, then that's a bonus.
 
You don't have any colour-blind players.

I’ve had two colorblind regs in my game.

There are no two colors as identical to both colorblind and regularly-sighted people as *the exact same color.*

So that’s a nonsensical thing to raise.

Blue and green might sometimes look similar to people. But not as often as BLACK AND BLACK or RED AND RED.

I mean, come on
 
I really like them and they are great for mixed games.

I’ve got Desjgn and Copags. The Copags win easily for me as their colours are more vibrant. The blue on the Desjgn cards is too washed out.

IMG_8836.jpeg
IMG_8583.jpeg
 
I have some (faded spade and Desjgn).
we use them from time to time. 4 colors don't bother me or my players but it is not the default choice
 
I use these exact cards in my game. I like them. (Tried the original Desjgn four colors first, but did not like the way they handled. Maybe the newer versions have corrected that.)

Four colors is a no-brainer as far as usability goes.

Two colors is a hangover from days 200+ years ago when printing technology was limited and using multiple colors was prohibitively expensive. The only reason to stick with this standard is hidebound traditionalism or an inability to consider improvements.

BTW colors are *easier* to see on a computer screen. Don’t know where those comments are coming from.

The light from a screen is uniform and backlit. In live games you get all kinds of random lighting. Often in non-casino games it’s either too yellow and dim (40-60W incandescents), or too cold and bright (fluorescent).

Even in casinos you sometimes get shadows on the table, as I found during an early visit to the (terribly designed) Resorts World poker room in Monticello. In bad lighting, every added visual cue is a help.
Where are the suits easier to see?
Here?
How%2Bto%2BPlay%2BMore%2BOnline%2BPoker%2BTables1.JPG

Or here?
200193421-001-58a6f6193df78c345b63861c.jpg


To me it's clear where 4 color decks have their place and where not. ;)
 
I get what you mean, but I think your example is a bit biased, as the problem is not the hole cards but the ability to quickly identify the board, imho.

Especially at a distance, on a busy background felt, with chips and drinks and other cards, etc
 
I’ve definitely went all in with AhJd thinking they were the same suit. In fact I did it in Stockholm and got lucky because the board had four hearts on it.

A mixture of bad eyesight and alcohol sent me in the direction of 4 colour decks. They take a bit of getting used to but they’re the way forward.
 
Color-blind missing red cones (protanopia):
1693140976730.png


Missing green cones (Deuteranopia):
1693141070040.png


These are the two most common forms of color blindness. It's basically what they test for in nearly every colorblind test where they have a number hidden in a bunch of colored dots. As you can see, 4-color decks are not detrimental to color blind players.

I don't use 4-color, but may pick up a few decks to try out. Maybe someone has tried them, their players didn't like them, and are willing to part with the decks for cheap?
 
Thanks, I have been wanting to try and experiment myself with simulators, as I do not understand why it could be more of a problem for colour blind people.
 
I guess I must be colorblind.

When I play with two-color decks, I just can’t tell the color of the clubs and spades apart.

Also have a problem telling the difference between the colors of the hearts and diamonds.
You joke, but with some of those damn security ink decks, I’m straining to tell the difference between the color of spades and diamonds.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom