Aces, middle position. Should be easy? (1 Viewer)

[ChaosRock]

*** ICK! ***

Hero bets $175. Villain insta-jams all in for $225 more ($400 total considering Hero is covered by villain.). Pot is $310 + $175 + $400 = $885.

Anyone in the fold camp? $225 to win $1,105 looks hard to resist. For what it is worth, villain is grinning ear to ear.

DrStrange

Snap calling expecting to win the pot more often than not...

 

[Anthony Martino]

Folding is awful here unless he flips over quads before you act

 

[bergs]

People are calling this at PLO, nevermind hold'em. Call all day, if he got there with quads he got there but there are so many other boats he could have (plus the occasional missed flush draw bluff) that folding here is bad.

 

[doakwolf]

Can't fold. Get 'em in and wipe that grin off villain's face.

 

[HanShot1st]

I have had 2 times in the last year where my full house was beaten by Quads. One of those times was on me for not getting out of the had earlier. The second, well let's just say that the LAG player who hit his hand was lucky. I spent a bit of time trying to figure out what I did wrong, how I can prevent this in the future. Ultimately it comes down to it's going to happen. Sometimes you just have to pay off the villain. Now on the off chance that he's misread your hand, and you in fact have him crushed (more often than him having quads), it's going to be satisfying to watch his jaw drop. As much as you are inferring he has his quads, and Poker Sorry if that's in fact what happened, but I just don't see how you can get away from this hand. Look at it this way, if you were playing at a casino, you probably just hit the bad beat.

 

[Irish]

Call, then puke & reload if he rolls over quads. Was originally thinking he had either pocket 10s or A-10 so I wouldn't be surprised to see quads.

 

[Pokerdweebz]

Snap call while projectile vomiting into a bag

 

[H|Q]

Snap shove.

Fist pump

Or

Rebuy

 

[bentax1978]

Snap shove.

Fist pump

Or

Rebuy

Exactly this. I'm not folding in this position, ever. Not only are you getting 4.5:1 on your money, but I think we're ahead the majority of the time. If this isn't one of those times (that we're ahead), pull out more cash, rebuy and starting building your stack back up again.

 

[DrStrange]

*** The End ***

Hero calls. Villain starts a speech with "I could be beat . . . . " and Hero is already feeling better. Villain finishes his speech and tables . Hero tables his aces and drags in all the chips.

Villain had Hero fooled with the turn check raise. Yes, this villain absolutely loves to draw to gut shots in part because of the fun he gets when the hand comes in. It made perfect sense in how he played the street and the smug table read this villain was giving off. So Hero goes into the river totally focused on how much can be gotten from a guy holding a straight looking at a paired and flushing board. The river check raise put Hero back on his heels. Not enough to get a fold, but enough to get Hero to ponder a moment before calling. For what it is worth, Hero was expecting to see AT tabled. Pocket jacks was not even on the radar..

I'd like to say Hero goes on to crush the table and cashes out a big score, but it didn't go that way. Hero's high water mark for the session is this hand (or close enough to it). Hero's profits drained away for hours, without any one remarkable hand. Just a slow bleed mixed in with a few mistakes (trying for Hero calls vs Lags.). Hero ends up cashing for ~$400 on a $60 buy in, yet remembering that at one time it was $1,100+

It was interesting that almost everyone here made a more accurate read on villain's intentions on the turn. Obviously Villain calls a turn shove which would have worked out far better if the board had rivered a 4-card straight that killed the action.

Thanks for the input -=- DrStrange

 

[Don Clay]

Thanks PCF and @DrStrange for this absorbing read (y) :thumbsup:

 

[bergs]

People are calling this at PLO, nevermind hold'em. Call all day, if he got there with quads he got there but there are so many other boats he could have (plus the occasional missed flush draw bluff) that folding here is bad.

What do you think he ranged you with? Maybe a flush draw? He sorta turned his hand into a bluff at the end with the check-raise jam.

 

[bentax1978]

What do you think he ranged you with? Maybe a flush draw? He sorta turned his hand into a bluff at the end with the check-raise jam.

Might have put him on AT, which would be consistent with all of the action of the hand. That's the most realistic hand that Cougar can both beat and expect a call of his jam. (perhaps JT is another possibility that falls into that category).

 

[DrStrange]

I feel certain that villain thought he was winning the hand when he turned the set and rivered overfull. This player mostly thinks at level 0. So he isn't thinking about Hero's range or what types of hands might make sense from Hero's betting/calling decisions. He knows second set was the third nut on the turn and jacks full of tens was the third nut on the river. Overfull is a powerful hand, so Villain's hand is powerful enough to play for stacks.

To be fair, there are plenty of guys at this table who would have stacked off with the nut flush so Villain's assessment of his hand isn't totally crazy. Hero isn't stacking off like that, but villain clearly doesn't know that.

 

[doakwolf]

Feels like set over set to me. Reraise jam.

Nice call, bergs.

I bet villain wishes they let the jacks go at the flop with that ace on the board. Nice catch, Dr.. Well played.

 

[HanShot1st]

*** The End ***

Hero calls. Villain starts a speech with "I could be beat . . . . " and Hero is already feeling better. Villain finishes his speech and tables . Hero tables his aces and drags in all the chips.

Thanks for the input -=- DrStrange

Have to tell you, I'm happy that this ended this way for you. Sorry to hear the rest of the nigh went the way it did. Wipe that smug grin off his face.

Thank you for sharing this, i really enjoyed following along.

 

[moojersey]

Cool hand for sure.

 

[Irish]

Nice hand. Reason #100,005,083 why pocket jacks suck, lol.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

*** The End ***

Hero calls. Villain starts a speech with "I could be beat . . . . " and Hero is already feeling better. Villain finishes his speech and tables . Hero tables his aces and drags in all the chips.

Villain had Hero fooled with the turn check raise. Yes, this villain absolutely loves to draw to gut shots in part because of the fun he gets when the hand comes in. It made perfect sense in how he played the street and the smug table read this villain was giving off. So Hero goes into the river totally focused on how much can be gotten from a guy holding a straight looking at a paired and flushing board. The river check raise put Hero back on his heels. Not enough to get a fold, but enough to get Hero to ponder a moment before calling. For what it is worth, Hero was expecting to see AT tabled. Pocket jacks was not even on the radar..

I'd like to say Hero goes on to crush the table and cashes out a big score, but it didn't go that way. Hero's high water mark for the session is this hand (or close enough to it). Hero's profits drained away for hours, without any one remarkable hand. Just a slow bleed mixed in with a few mistakes (trying for Hero calls vs Lags.). Hero ends up cashing for ~$400 on a $60 buy in, yet remembering that at one time it was $1,100+

It was interesting that almost everyone here made a more accurate read on villain's intentions on the turn. Obviously Villain calls a turn shove which would have worked out far better if the board had rivered a 4-card straight that killed the action.

Thanks for the input -=- DrStrange

Joined this thread late, and I think you played the hand well, but I have to ask why you had to even ponder before calling this one. There are so many other hands than quads that he could have, all of which you beat. I mean he's probably shoving any underboat, and there are many more combinations of that than the 1 combo of quads. I think if he does have quads here, and you don't stack off, you're not doing it right.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero didn't fold, and wouldn't. Hero calls even in an Omaha game. However, villain did something really unexpected and it seems prudent to think a moment. It didn't help that Hero though villain's primary range was KQ just prior to the check-jam.

 

[Chicken Rob]

I still think the only mistake was not getting more money in the pot more quickly. Every decision becomes easier. Why is preflop raise only $7 even after a limper? I can't seem to get past that one. I know it's a small difference, but I think if the standard opening raise is $7, than raising after a limper is easily $10, and I probably raise $12-15 in this spot in most 1/2 games I play in. Stacks are deep, and people call these raises in my experience.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero raises preflop for $7 because at the moment it seems to be what people will call. Hero did get two callers, not the whole table. If Hero knew someone held JJ, he would have bet larger. Aside from one villain the stacks aren't deep and the other five villains are licking early wounds. Three hours later in the session and Hero could raise $12 to 18+ preflop and get callers - some nights it is a lot more than $18.

It isn't a small difference. A few extra dollars preflop leverage every bet higher for the rest of the hand. Every extra dollar in the preflop raise goes to lower the SPR - a good thing when playing AA.

The flop sizing might have been too small. It was on the low end of the range recommended here. $18 into $24 is 75% pot holding top set on a wet board. There are a lot of hands drawing thin that Hero wants to keep invested in the hand. Betting more than 75% pot might not be a good idea. One thing hero should not do is trap-check.

The street I found the most fault with was the turn. Almost every poster here read villain's check raise for set or two pair rather than the gut shot for Broadway. Failing to raise here had the potential to be a monster sized error - could easily been a $400 mistake.

 

[Adam Crowley]

As played I think you open jam river. Given reads on villain you put him playing trappy on at least one street. The only hand that folds to a river jam is the straight and our reads say that he would probably slow play turn with straight. He may not c/r JT or AT on this river, but he certainly isn't folding. Considering we are never folding to a c/r here, I think just shoving out stack for max value is the best line I think there is 0 hands villan folds that would call a half pot bet on river.

I don't mind turn play vs his perceived range because we crush it, if you think villan would c/c a value bet on a river h because he is a station I think calling is fine. If you think he has KJ/KT of hearts style hands in his turn c/r range then I would jam the turn.