Anyone else play $2-$6 spread limit holdem? (1 Viewer)

[honkydevil]

Couldn't find any threads on small spread limit games. Was curious if anyone had general any advice.

My local casino has a $2-$6 game. Its usually the only game they run so I have no choice other than not playing, but its not like the play is above average.

Generally most players there bet(bluff) too much and call down(weak hands) too much. So I adjusted by betting tighter and calling more with medium strength hands. There will be a few tight ABC players so I just avoid them when they put any money in.

I feel like I am just being a super nit and never bluffing but it hasn't appeared to be a terrible strategy.

So I'm curious if anyone else plays in a small spread limit game like that and has any advice. Do you play tight opening range? or more hands since your pot odds are almost always good post flop?

 

[jbutler]

Just to be clear, the maximum bet is $6, right? I mean, that's what spread limit means, but it is so far out of the realm of comprehension that anyone could consider a bet in this game to be a bluff that I feel like I need to be sure.

If so, no you should literally never, ever bluff unless you see a guy fold a giant percentage of hands facing one bet at some point. Which, unless this game occurs on some other planet with a player pool that has never seen $2-6 spread limit hold 'em on as played on Earth, you will never see. So don't bluff.

And yes, tighten up your preflop ranges. Super tight. Like preacher's daughter butthole pre-rebellion tight. You'll have enough opportunity to see the flop with two random cards when the table inevitably limps around to you in the BB, so don't bother trying to bink with two random cards in any other spot where you have to actually voluntarily put money in the pot.

And finally, once you implement the perfect version of the above strategy, plan to still, at absolute top dollar best, break even over time since the rake will destroy this game.

 

[honkydevil]

Yes maximum $6 ontop of whatever is there. So the aggressive guys just pop it to $8 total preflop, and go $6 $6 $6.

So far I try to stick to pairs, broadway cards, and if there are a couple limps I'll call suited connectors from late position.

Also, I started not raising some of the premium hands early and middle, like AK and AQs. I kinda figured if everyone calls too much I need to see a flop first, or else I'll end up C-betting and wasting money more often than not. Does it seem like a bad play to not raise a hand like that? Assuming I'm going to whiff the flop and give up a majority of the time. It also doesn't seem to thin the field too much.

preacher's daughter butthole pre-rebellion tight.

This is because while pot odds are good, you dont get implied odds on your drawing hands?

plan to still, at absolute top dollar best, break even

I need to go do the math on my notes but I am pretty sure I am break even or up a couple dollars at the moment. But with how horrible some of the players in and out of there are find it hard to think I can't profit. Obviously not getting rich but thats why I posted this, I thought any advice would help me squeak a couple more dollars out.

 

[jbutler]

This is because while pot odds are good, you dont get implied odds on your drawing hands?

More or less. Also, implied odds are much, much, much (keep going) less relevant in a limit or spread limit game because you can't bet big on later streets to make up for the -EV calls you made to get there.

I need to go do the math on my notes but I am pretty sure I am break even or up a couple dollars at the moment. But with how horrible some of the players in and out of there are find it hard to think I can't profit. Obviously not getting rich but thats why I posted this, I thought any advice would help me squeak a couple more dollars out.

I'm up huge lifetime at roulette. Variance is great when you're on the right side. Raked $2-6 spread limit hold 'em will never be a profitable game. Imagine if NLHE were raked at a rate of 60% of the last bet. Not exactly the same thing here, but close enough for government work.

If you want to play profitable poker and this is all that's available in casinos, start a home game.

 

[RagsPoker]

I have $2-$5 spread limit cash games in my home game (holdem, stud, omaha, triple draw, etc.). Rarely does a hand not go to showdown, so there's really not much bluffing. Blinds are 25c/50c with a max bet of up to $2 the first two rounds of betting and a max bet of up to $5 for the remaining streets. This was the way a cash game was played a few years ago at the old O'Shea's in Vegas when it had a poker room. I'm quite surprised that the betting is capped at $6 on all streets at your casino instead of a higher limit on the final streets....sounds like it's run by someone who doesn't understand poker.

 

[honkydevil]

sounds like it's run by someone who doesn't understand poker

Yes, its $1/$2 blinds, $6 max bet/raise at any time. I've always thought the structure was kinda stupid but its often played by a lot of people that don't understand poker also, which is why I'm trying to see if I can make a buck there. The home game you describe sounds reasonable, kind of a combination of limit/spread limit, and not getting raked at home.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Tight is generally right, especially if hands are getting capped 6 ways for max bets preflop. You may even have to fold a lot of your smaller pairs if it's frequently $24 to see the flop, unless it's also consistently madhouse action post-flop.

If play is more passive than that—especially if you can see the flop for a $2 limp—you can open up your preflop range to stuff that plays well multi-way (mostly small pairs, suited aces, and stronger suited connectors). Give yourself opportunities to sneak into big hands and value bet them relentlessly. Buy cheap and sell dear, basically.

The players at this level generally aren't sophisticated enough for you to get fancy at all, but you do need to use their mistakes as the basis for deciding how to play.

 

[DrStrange]

Just piling on now.

Play the tightest poker in your life at this table. NO suited connectors. Very limited broadways trash (eg QJo, KTs). NO suited ace-rage. Very limited pocket pairs for set mining. You should be playing something like top 5% hands when UTG to playing maybe the top 8% or 10% on the button. Fold the small blind (blind if you can't find the discipline to fold 90+% of the time)

@jbutler is dead on about the rake. You need a truly awful player pool to make this type of game profitable playing in a 10% / $5 max game, no doubt with a $1 or $2 promotional drop. That type of rake works out to be something like $12 to $15 per hour for every player at the table. It isn't impossible that a good player could make $3 to $6 / hr at this game, but I'd say that type of win rate would put you in the top percentiles of players.

Just so we are clear - - - your entire win rate will come from folding once an hour on the river or getting one extra player to pay $6 to see showdown. Reading strategy books on low stakes limit poker could prove beneficial.

Starting your own home game or finding one would be far more sensible than playing in that type of game at a casino.

I host $0.50 - $10 spread limit holdem and $1 - $4 spread limit mixed games. It makes for a fine social game that slowly shears the losing players but gives them a lot of play time for their money.

DrStrange

 

[Mental Nomad]

Also, I started not raising some of the premium hands early and middle, like AK and AQs. I kinda figured if everyone calls too much I need to see a flop first, or else I'll end up C-betting and wasting money more often than not. Does it seem like a bad play to not raise a hand like that? Assuming I'm going to whiff the flop and give up a majority of the time. It also doesn't seem to thin the field too much.

It's very likely a big mistake not to raise them.

AK and AQs are very likely to be ahead of all or most of the calling hands, pre-flop, so you should be happy to have everyone pay more to get to that flop, even though you'll miss it fairly often. In this game, you need to be folding pre-flop an awful lot... and when you're not, you need to be building that pot every step of the way.

In limit, you need to be aware of the concept of the value of raising from second best... Let's say there are five people coming to the flop. You have AKo, they have JJ, TT, 87s, T8s...

JJ is ahead with 31.4% equity, you're in second with 29.9% equity. But average equity with five players is 20%. You and JJ should be happy to get into a raising war, pre-flop, as long as others are calling. You're paying 20% of the money, and winning 31% of pot.

I kinda figured if everyone calls too much I need to see a flop first, or else I'll end up C-betting and

You don't need to C-bet if you miss the flop. A C-bet's value comes in large part from the fact that it sets others up to fold - in this game, that ain't happening, so don't C-bet when you miss.

 

[jbutler]

Also, I started not raising some of the premium hands early and middle, like AK and AQs. I kinda figured if everyone calls too much I need to see a flop first, or else I'll end up C-betting and wasting money more often than not. Does it seem like a bad play to not raise a hand like that? Assuming I'm going to whiff the flop and give up a majority of the time. It also doesn't seem to thin the field too much.

And for the love of god don't c-bet hands that don't connect. I don't know how many hours you have logged in this game, but it should have been pretty apparent at minute 4 that no one folds ever. There is literally no reason whatsoever to c-bet when you miss.

 

[honkydevil]

Just piling on now.

Good info thanks.

It's very likely a big mistake not to raise them.

Even out of position when planning to check/give up on flops you whiff?
*edit: Nevermind I read your comment again and its making more sense. Still pushing an equity edge even if getting multiple callers.