Of course that applies to Pot Limit games only.
Cash Game Proofread my explanation of Pot Limit (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Poker Zombie
- Start date
yeah. thanks. this reminds me of when we were at westgate and I was drunk playing the cash game while you were in the tourny. i was heads up in a $20 pot. I asked the dealer how much was in the pot, and she spread out the $20 worth of chips, and then I bet $400.
They are not entitled to a pot count, I've never seen any professional dealer in a casino actually count down the pot. Not that it has never happened. It is the job of the dealer to know the count, and provide it upon request. The best answer I have is, its a waste of time, slowing and calling out the rake.
Also .. 'not when there's money involved. That's the problem with mercy, kid. It just ain't professional' - Color of Money
In a home game its not a big deal, but it would be a bad habit to develop, not to mention the minutia of someone raking in all of the bets preflop only to stack it and say 'look this is everything in the pot' which I've also seen done while trying to explain PLO betting.
That's interesting. Where I was taught (BC, Canada), and subsequently, how I taught other poker dealers (also, BC, Canada), we were always told to never give the answer to how much is in the pot. Didn't matter if it was NL or PL.
In your experience, then, if there was a pot of $100, someone bets $80, and the next person asks "What's the maximum I can bet?" , you would tell them "$340." ? We aren't supposed to be doing that either (which is the same as telling someone how much is in the pot, imo).
Mike
The two videos below explain both calculation methods. This helped me a lot! I prefer the brute force method because multiplying by 3 makes it again more complicated I think.
I wonder as a player without pot limit experience if Pot Limit is actually a good idea in a homegame without a dedicated dealer, alcohol and non math students. Doesn't it slow down the game massively?
I wonder as a player without pot limit experience if Pot Limit is actually a good idea in a homegame without a dedicated dealer, alcohol and non math students. Doesn't it slow down the game massively?
One of our goals as a club is to help our members be successful in a casino. Since PLO is a game they may run into, I'd like them to be prepared. In my mind, slowing down isn't a bad thing. We have several members that are quick for calculations; they'll help keep their table moving if it gets stuck. We aren't giving them an overview and throwing them in the deep end alone.
I suppose you can tell them the calculation (3× last bet, plus the rest) without telling them a number (estimated or not).
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
OK here is the article, re-written. I already have some new questions though, but lets see how this works for everyone.
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
My question is:
Post Flop, Pot $30
Player A Pots ($30)
Player B goes All-in for Less ($20):
Player C Pots.
With the 3x method, you have to go to the last "legal" bet or raise, not the player on your right, to get $140. The "brute force" method certainly sounds less confusing, IMO. Is there a better way to define the last legal bet or raise player on your right, since multiple all-ins could effectively reopen the betting?
Post Flop, Pot $30
Player A Pots ($30)
Player B goes All-in for Less ($20):
Player C Pots.
With the 3x method, you have to go to the last "legal" bet or raise, not the player on your right, to get $140. The "brute force" method certainly sounds less confusing, IMO. Is there a better way to define the last legal bet or raise player on your right, since multiple all-ins could effectively reopen the betting?
Isn't there an argument that C can go $150? B is a short "call", which means the legal bet is still $30, though virtual because he can't cover the total. So 3x $30 plus what's left in the pot from A and B $60 = $150 total?
No.
Pot size is 30 initial plus 30 bet plus 20 all-in plus 30 call = 110. A max pot raise would be 110 (not including the 30 call).
So Player C can raise to 140 correct?
No, he can raise $110 more on top of his $30 call.
Yes. Okay. So he can raise in total to $140.
Thats why I prefer these Youtube videos about any written or verbal explanation. The visualization makes it at least for me a lot clearer.
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Final bump on this article before being sent to the printer tonight.
ArielVer18
Flush
I've never seen it, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a cardroom somewhere that completes short calls for pot calculation purposes. No one plays true pot limit live anyways. For example, WSOP pot limit events ignore the ante preflop for pot calculation. Furthermore, a short all-in blind preflop shouldn't affect max pot calculation since everyone has the "3.5x plus 1x per limper" formula memorized.
ekricket
Royal Flush
I wrote it wrong. I meant initial pot of $30 plus A's completed bet of $30 = $60 'tail'
Nine_high
3 of a Kind
Yes player C repots to $140. Since player B didn't place a full bet, you take 3x player A's bet plus the rest, which will include player B's bet.
As far as multiple all ins reopening the betting goes, I don't see how that's related? Maybe I don't understand your question.
Jonesey07
4 of a Kind
So how did it go?!?
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
There were some players that had a hard time grasping the concept, but for the most part players got along pretty well.
It was our biggest cash game to date, by quite a long way. 15 players, 13 rebuys (3 of them by me). Didn't get into the hundos, but all the fracs, $1s, and $5s were in play.
Jonesey07
4 of a Kind
Did I get passed in POTY points? Haha
Glad it was such a good turnout! I tried to get in a PLO game last night but I waited over an hour and no seats came open. I was 4th on the list and gave up.
Uhhhh. Photos?!?
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
PLO table here was also full
For the 1st hand. Someone got felted and chose to rebuy in Hold'em. Then a 2nd. Then a 3rd.
All in less than an hour.
On a surprisingly related topic, @Ben narrowed the gap in the PotY race.
OP
OP
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Jonesey07
4 of a Kind
I never would have guessed. Haha
Well, with our players (we've only played PLO a few times), it seems most want an accurate pot count, and nobody has protested the chip stacking whether proper procedure or no. Maybe this problem will go away once everyone is more familiar with pot-limit betting.
At least I know not to expect this to happen in a casino environment.
I'm not ripping on you, and I get counting down the pot. Personally I would rather see people count it down rather than play NLH, you have to start somewhere. I would try to find someone that plays a lot and just ask them to help. But this situation is like players calling from the Kitchen, its a home game and design is fun focus.
A lot of seasoned players will naturally keep a count, once you play PLO often its just a tick. If you're not actively engaged in a conversation with someone for 1/2 a hand (because you've folded) then it becomes a TV show that is on in the background.
First you want to take note of how many people are in the hand, sure they do this in Holdem but for a different reason. When you get surprised by the re-pot on the turn, this is where you reconstruct the hand, preflop was $5 and 6 ppl in the hand, flop was checked, BB bet 20 so you can make it 90 is typically how that goes.
I will typically calculate the pot, and then when the next street comes out, recap - to my self: 'Flop 30', turn comes out with a bet in late position of 15, so now I'm anticipating 30 + '15s' so I can see once 4 ppl call, okay 30 + 60 - 90 to the river. This comes easier when you are dealing.
For low stakes PLO, its still beneficial to just round up to the dollar on the streets, 31+ just becomes 32. I know there is a thing with NLH betting change to be quirky and hip and all but yeah F that S. In some PLO games where its 5/5 or a 5 bring in, you can't bet less than 5 increments so basically 1s don't play, you can do the same thing with change. I would also set the expectation of, hey did ja'know you're technically not supposed to stack the pot, so they won't do that at casinos ...
I can't help my prescriptivism at times, but I'm not unbearable at a poker game I promise! lol
Create an account or login to comment
You must be a member in order to leave a comment
Create account
Create an account and join our community. It's easy!
Log in
Already have an account? Log in here.
