Cash Game Appropriate Fixed Limit conversions (2 Viewers)

[rjbf65]

This poll is in relation to another thread I made entitled Critique this Cash Game set up. It seems there are varying opinions on what limits the Stud games should be that would fit best with the average .25/.50 hold'em game. Looking to see if there is an option that leads the way. I know not all .25/.50 games play the same but lets assume the game doesn't play super big but with the right mix of guys on a given night does play bigger than others. A typical amount in play on the night for an 8 handed game ranges from $500 to $800 depending on the players that are there.

In each scenario the ante would be .25.

 

[BottomPair7]

Voted.

 

[upNdown]

I’d like to hear what people base their criteria on, because I’ve had the same question.
I like to consider how much it would cost to play a hand if every street were capped. If that would cost you something like a typical NLHE buyin, I think you’re in the right neighborhood. But I’m just spitballing.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I picked the first option ($0.25 ante, $1/2 limits) because, in the abstract, that tends to line up with a $0.25/0.50 NLHE game with a typical buy-in structure (~100 BB max) and typical player lineup.

Sometimes it really won't, though.

For contrast, in the game @bergs used to host before he moved to Cactizona, it was $0.25/0.50 NL/PL (PLO and circus games with like one orbit of NLHE sometimes), buy-in cap of $125 and then half the big stack, with a roster that made it play dramatically bigger. It was technically $0.25/0.50 but really played more like a $1/2 or $2/5 game. When we played limit, it was $2.50/5 with snappers (I think it was a $5 button ante). We played $3/6 limit with a $1 ante online during the pandemic too. I can't imagine those guys playing $1/2 with a $0.25 ante, not in stud variants or any other game. It just wouldn't fit.

 

[JustinInMN]

I’d like to hear what people base their criteria on, because I’ve had the same question.
I like to consider how much it would cost to play a hand if every street were capped. If that would cost you something like a typical NLHE buyin, I think you’re in the right neighborhood. But I’m just spitballing.

That's a pretty good approach.

For me, I think in terms of average pot size and I think your average limit pot has 6-8 big bets in it. Your average NL pot probably has about 25-30x big blinds in it. Pots that go to the river will both tend to be above these averages. So I guess to me it makes sense for the big-bet in a limit game to be roughly 4x the big blind in a NL game of similar risk. 4*50¢ = $2, so $1/$2 limit it is.

Edit to add, I did gloss over the options and notice there was no ante in any of the options, just started with a bring in. I do like $1/$2 as the limits, but I would suggest 25¢ be the ante, 50¢ be the bring in.

 

[allforcharity]

I think there's good arguments for either of the first 2.

 

[rjbf65]

That's a pretty good approach.

For me, I think in terms of average pot size and I think your average limit pot has 6-8 big bets in it. Your average NL pot probably has about 25-30x big blinds in it. Pots that go to the river will both tend to be above these averages. So I guess to me it makes sense for the big-bet in a limit game to be roughly 4x the big blind in a NL game of similar risk. 4*50¢ = $2, so $1/$2 limit it is.

Edit to add, I did gloss over the options and notice there was no ante in any of the options, just started with a bring in. I do like $1/$2 as the limits, but I would suggest 25¢ be the ante, 50¢ be the bring in.

My mistake for not including the ante. I now have edited the OP to say in each scenario it would be a .25 ante.

 

[Santa123]

With less than 10 session I am not a Limit Expert but I would say that 2/4 is good for more action limit games. If you play only standard games like h.o.r.s.e. I think maybe even 3/6 is more appropriate. If you start with mixed games in your group I think 2/4 is best.

 

[bmacpoker]

I think I mentioned it in the other thread, one way to get a blend of the first two and generate some action like 25c/50c NL can be, add in kill pots to have some 2/4 hands.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I think I mentioned it in the other thread, one way to get a blend of the first two and generate some action like 25c/50c NL can be, add in kill pots to have some 2/4 hands.

This is a good idea.

I also think the structure with a third bet size (like 1/2/4 or 2/4/10) could serve as a decent bridge to NL/PL.

Having that extra-large bet on the end is still fixed-limit but better parallels the progression of big-bet poker. Aside from MOAR ACTION, it allows for a more robust last betting round, instead of the typical limit experience of having to make crying calls and almost never being able to bluff on the end.

 

[rjbf65]

This is a good idea.

I also think the structure with a third bet size (like 1/2/4 or 2/4/10) could serve as a decent bridge to NL/PL.

Having that extra-large bet on the end is still fixed-limit but better parallels the progression of big-bet poker. Aside from MOAR ACTION, it allows for a more robust last betting round, instead of the typical limit experience of having to make crying calls and almost never being able to bluff on the end.

I was pretty proud of myself for thinking of that one but it currently has zero votes!

 

[springbox]

25c ante, 50c bring in, $1.5/$3 bets. The ante is a bit large, you could make it smaller (effectively) by doing a $1 or $1.5 dealer ante, but it also works fine as is.

 

[Santa123]

This is a good idea.

I also think the structure with a third bet size (like 1/2/4 or 2/4/10) could serve as a decent bridge to NL/PL.

Having that extra-large bet on the end is still fixed-limit but better parallels the progression of big-bet poker. Aside from MOAR ACTION, it allows for a more robust last betting round, instead of the typical limit experience of having to make crying calls and almost never being able to bluff on the end.

I don't realy understand how this is played. Lets say we play FL Omaha with 1/2/4 structure. Do you switch on fourth street (the river) to a bet size of $4?

 

[rjbf65]

I don't realy understand how this is played. Lets say we play FL Omaha with 1/2/4 structure. Do you switch on fourth street (the river) to a bet size of $4?

What we are talking about is in regard to Stud games. Stud has 5 betting rounds so Rounds 1&2 are $1. 3&4 are $2. Round 5 would be $4.

Omaha just being 4 betting rounds streets 1&2 would be $1, streets 3&4 being $2.

 

[upNdown]

What we are talking about is in regard to Stud games. Stud has 5 betting rounds so Rounds 1&2 are $1. 3&4 are $2. Round 5 would be $4.

I don’t like the sounds of this - are people actually playing like this or is it a new idea?

 

[Labrat]

I picked other. We play .25 ante/.50 bring-in/$1/$2

 

[soccerdadof3]

This is a good idea.

I also think the structure with a third bet size (like 1/2/4 or 2/4/10) could serve as a decent bridge to NL/PL.

Having that extra-large bet on the end is still fixed-limit but better parallels the progression of big-bet poker. Aside from MOAR ACTION, it allows for a more robust last betting round, instead of the typical limit experience of having to make crying calls and almost never being able to bluff on the end.

Don't know if they still have it but MD Live used to have a 2/4/4/8 limit hold em game. 2 preflop, 4 on flop & turn, and 8 on the river.. could still get some decent pots without getting crazy expensive in any hand.

 

[rjbf65]

I don’t like the sounds of this - are people actually playing like this or is it a new idea?

Something I thought up. Haven't tried it in play. What do you not like about it? I know its not traditional but it seems to be a nice compromise between 1/2 and 2/4. Especially since the voting is split evenly between the two options right now.

 

[JustinInMN]

I don’t like the sounds of this - are people actually playing like this or is it a new idea?

I've never seen this in practice, but I've seen it floated in books and articles, even in a hold'em context, double on the turn, redouble on the river.

I also think the structure with a third bet size (like 1/2/4 or 2/4/10) could serve as a decent bridge to NL/PL.

Having that extra-large bet on the end is still fixed-limit but better parallels the progression of big-bet poker. Aside from MOAR ACTION, it allows for a more robust last betting round, instead of the typical limit experience of having to make crying calls and almost never being able to bluff on the end.

I am a pretty big limit "purist" given that was the only option to play live in Minnesota when I got started. But I am certainly warming to this idea of the redouble river. You would get far fewer 10-1 spots as you describe. And it wouldn't harm the best feature of limit poker, speed.

 

[upNdown]

Something I thought up. Haven't tried it in play. What do you not like about it? I know its not traditional but it seems to be a nice compromise between 1/2 and 2/4. Especially since the voting is split evenly between the two options right now.

Just resistant to change I guess. I don’t know stud very well, so I tend to lean on the basic “rules” like if you’re seeing 6th street, you’re going to the river. It’s an extra variable in a game where I’m already a dog. Yeah I guess this is more of a me problem.

 

[Jimulacrum]

What we are talking about is in regard to Stud games. Stud has 5 betting rounds so Rounds 1&2 are $1. 3&4 are $2. Round 5 would be $4.

Omaha just being 4 betting rounds streets 1&2 would be $1, streets 3&4 being $2.

I've seen (like once or twice ever) a flop game structured the same way, with a 4x bet size on the river.

It is definitely unusual, though.

 

[Nine_high]

Something I thought up. Haven't tried it in play. What do you not like about it? I know its not traditional but it seems to be a nice compromise between 1/2 and 2/4. Especially since the voting is split evenly between the two options right now.

I voted 2/4.

If I were you I'd do 1/2, and if it feels too small add a kill, and if it still feels too small just go 2/4. Easy peasy.

 

[OzzieJim]

I usually go with an 8x rule of big bet blinds to fixed limit bets.

So 0.25/0.50 becomes 2/4

I like a 1:4 bringin:complete ratio personally. I also like the ante to be 1/10 the small bet. If it's button ante, I make the ante the same as the small bet.

So:

Ante $0.25 (I assume this is smallest chip)
Bring In $0.50
Small Bet $2
Big Bet $4

Button Ante $2
Bring In $0.50
Small Bet $2
Big Bet $4

If you wanted to totally eliminate the use of 0.25 chips and play with just $1 I would go:

Button Ante $3
Bring In $1
Small Bet $3
Big Bet $6

Generally speaking I would err on the side of making your fixed limit games bigger than you think vs big bet games. Big bet players at first will not generally appreciate the significance of things like a 3! in limit. If you play 1/2 limits your players simply won't fold and the whole thing becomes a rather complicated flipping session. This is at least my experience.

We play 1/1 big bet and 4/8, 5/10 and 10/20 limit.

 

[warma]

Keep it simple.

3 or 4 chip dealer ante
1 chip bring in
2 chips small bet
4 chips big bet

With $6-800 in play, make the buy-in $100 and give them a rack of $1 chips for $2/$4. Give them 5 x $20 for rebuys and have them make change with the table.

If you’re not sure about bet sizing, grab some non-denom chips for the work horse chips.

 

[rjbf65]

Keep it simple.

3 or 4 chip dealer ante
1 chip bring in
2 chips small bet
4 chips big bet

With $6-800 in play, make the buy-in $100 and give them a rack of $1 chips for $2/$4. Give them 5 x $20 for rebuys and have them make change with the table.

If you’re not sure about bet sizing, grab some non-denom chips for the work horse chips.

I’d go that route if I was looking to host a limit only night. What I’m looking for is limit game options played the same night as .25/.50 Hold’em and PLO games.

 

[JustinInMN]

Keep it simple.

3 or 4 chip dealer ante
1 chip bring in
2 chips small bet
4 chips big bet

With $6-800 in play, make the buy-in $100 and give them a rack of $1 chips for $2/$4. Give them 5 x $20 for rebuys and have them make change with the table.

If you’re not sure about bet sizing, grab some non-denom chips for the work horse chips.

(Edit, nevermind, @rjbf65 just made the exact same point)

 

[warma]

Yep, sorry… missed that.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Yep, sorry… missed that.

Bull. You're just pushing your radical limit-only agenda.

 

[warma]

 

[OzzieJim]

I’d go that route if I was looking to host a limit only night. What I’m looking for is limit game options played the same night as .25/.50 Hold’em and PLO games.

In this case I would try to make 1 NL buy-in around 25 Big Bets.

If you’re playing with $50 buyins that means 1/2 w/ 25c BI

If you’re playing with $100 buyins I would make it 2/4 with a 50c Bi. This structure is also much better for a .25c ante.